The BLB Blog

The official blog of Blue Letter Bible

Emphatic Negations in Hebrews 6

Posted on Posted by

The following portion of Scripture has been, without any equivocation, one of the most hotly disputed passages in the Bible as a whole with regard to the assurance of eternal life, versus temporary life based on one’s performance as a professed believer in Jesus Christ.

“For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. 9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. 13 For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, “I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply you.” 15 And thus, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. 16 For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. 17 In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, 18 in order that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have strong encouragement, we who have fled for refuge in laying hold of the hope set before us. 19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, 20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek” (Hebrews 6:4-20).

In direct conjunction with our analysis of John 10:22-30 concerning the promise of eternal life to born again believers promised by Jesus in that passage, we are going to look at other related passages that have to do with that eternal life, and in some, including this one in Hebrews 6:4-20, there is a legitimate question raised as to whether or not the promise of eternal life can be abrogated by a true, born again believer so that they actually lose their salvation that they once possessed through the grace and mercy of God. Therefore, the first passage we are going to look at in this analysis will be here in Hebrews 6:4-20.

In a great many instances with regard to the analysis of eternal or temporary life, only Hebrews 6:4-8 is looked at, but we are going to look at this whole section in order to grasp the complete message that is being given regarding the promise of eternal or temporary life. However, we are going to do it sections, and our first section is going to be Hebrews 6:4-6: “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.”

In verses 4-5, we have three verbs used to describe someone who has had an encounter with Jesus Christ: “enlightened,” “tasted,” and “have been made.” In chronological order, these verbs in the Greek text are: φωτισθέντας (photisthentes – “enlightened”), γευσαμένους (geusamenous –“tasted”), and γενηθέντας (genethentas – “have been made”). Each one of these verbs is what is called an aorist participle, with φωτισθέντας (photisthentes – “enlightened”) and γενηθέντας (genethentas – “have been made”) being aorist passive participles, and γευσαμένους (geusamenous – “tasted”) being an aorist active participle (this verb comes from the Greek root verb γεύομαι (geuomai), which means “to taste or partake of something,” and it is also called a deponent verb, which means it is active in meaning, although its form is middle or passive.

Thus, the passive voice in Greek indicates that someone else or something else is producing the action that is in turn affecting the subject of the verb, while the active voice indicates the subject of the verb is actually producing the action of the verb. In addition, the aorist tense indicates simply that some action has occurred, without saying anything about the duration of the action, unless it is accompanied by an adjectival or adverbial modifier with reference to time. In this case, there is no adjectival or adverbial modifier attached to these participles indicating any specific length of time, but simply that at some point they “were enlightened , were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” and they themselves “tasted of the heavenly gift, the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come.” What is interesting, however, is that Hebrews 6:4 in the Greek begins with the phrase, Ἀδύνατον γὰρ (adunaton gar), which means, “for it is impossible,” and the participles then follow. Thus, with this type of syntactical construction in the Greek, what we have is what is referred to as concessive participles, which indicate a concession to the modifying particle of the sentence or phrase, and in this instance in Hebrews 6:4, that phrase is Ἀδύνατον γὰρ (adunaton gar), meaning, “for it is impossible,” and Ἀδύνατον (adunaton) is an adjective.

In the NAS, which is what I am using, the phrase, “for it is impossible,” doesn’t appear until verse 6 in conjunction with the concessive statement that they “have fallen away,” and therefore, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.” The verb “have fallen away” is also an aorist participle, παραπεσόντας (parapesontas), and it is in the active voice, implying that this was an action produced by the subjects, versus an action being done to them from an outside source. The verb “to renew” is a present, active infinitive –ἀνακαινίζειν (anakainezein) – and in the Greek, the present tense indicates a continuous or ongoing action, and the word here for “repentance” in the Greek is μετάνοιαν (metanoian), which indicates “an change of mind, turning about, and going in a different direction.”

However, there is another word used to translate “repent” in English, and it is μεταμέλομαι (metamelomai), meaning “a deep regret about some action that one wishes could be undone.” The difference between these two words is that the former is talking about a heart and life change that accompanies a genuine rebirth experience, whereas the latter is talking about someone regretting the consequences of his or her sinful actions, but may not necessarily have a truly life-changing μετάνοια (metanoia) with regard to turning from that sin and pursuing Christ. Now please understand, that as a true, born again believer, we too can at times simply experience μεταμέλομαι (metamelomai), versus μετάνοια (metanoia) over certain sins in our lives. But, as a true, born again child of God, God will do a work of “discipline” in our lives whereby we “might share His holiness” and see the “fruit of His righteousness” sprouting in our lives:

“For they (“they” being our “fathers” – my note) disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, that we may share His holiness. 11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness”
(Hebrews 12:10-11).

Next week we will look at the next phrase in Hebrews 6:6. It will be crucial in understanding what is being described here. Stay tuned!

 

 

Comments

  1. So what are you saying? This was a great grammar lesson, but I don’t get the conclusion as to the meaning.

    • I don’t have a good conclusion on this, we just got done taking a class in Hebrews which was great, each student received biblical training. I’m more thinking this addresses the new covenant and old. The book of Hebrews was wrote to Jews who had gotten saved and were wanting to go back to the law, I see this passage as a possibility that it regards the jews, the author (Probably Paul, but that’s another topic). is adressing the fact, the jews wanted to go back to the old covenant. In the old covenant there is no repentance for intentional sins. When he says “to renew them to repentance”, it is speaking of no life in the old covenant or even repentance for all sins. The old had sacrifices, while the new is purely Jesus as our high priest and sacrifice for all.

      • In regards to this, those who were once “Enlightened” is speaking (In my view) of those who were in the New covenant, but desired to go back to the law. Again, Im not sold on this. i need to dig and pray more. Ultimately, don’t mess with walking away from the Lord, we need to have constant relationship with Jesus in the new covenant.

    • Hi Judy! This is the first in a short series of articles on Hebrews 6. Next Wednesday, Justin will consider the next verse and place today’s post into context. I hope that helps. God bless!

    • Dear Judy:

      Thanks so much for your question. The point being made is that with the aorist participles being used in this passage with these three verbs, they are simply indicating a moment in time, versus any type of permancy or extended period of time. What that means will be better explained next week as we go further into verse 6 in conjunction with other New Testament passages.

      God bless you,

      Justin T. Alfred

  2. EXODUS 20:19-20; MATTHEW 10:39; JOHN 12:24-25; 1 CORINTHIANS 15:22-36; REVELATION 14:13

    Matthew 13:3-9

    John 3:36

    John 14:23

    Hebrews 10:26-38

    1 John 2:3-6

    Revelation 3:11-21

  3. Chris and Justin at BLB~

    I have posted several comments to you (Justin) about eternal security. I posted them on September 19, 26 and on October 4, and I wonder if you have had a chance to read them. I realize that you are very busy, but I would appreciate your opinion of what I have written.

    Thanks and God bless you~
    Barbara

    • Dear Barbara:

      Thanks so much for your post, but no, I haven’t had time to read any posts until today, and I did so today because there was a bit of a problem in getting the material to BLB so that the Greek could be read properly. And indeed, you can tell from the BLOG that it didn’t come out as well as it should have. I will try to get to your previous posts, but I cannot say exactly when.

      God bless you,

      Justin Alfred

    • Barbara, thanks for the comment. I just spoke to Justin this morning, and, as the language expert, he intends to answer your questions soon. Justin has a full-time ministry that he serves with, but I know he desires to answer these questions for you! If there’s anything else I can do, please let me know.

      • Chris~

        Thank you for taking the time to drop me a line. Justin has responded to me twice, letting me know that he will address my concerns when he gets a minute. I know that both of you are very busy with this blog and other responsibilities, so I understand that there might be a wait. I only wrote several times because I just wasn’t sure if my posts had been read. Anyway, that’s done, and I will look forward to Justin’s answers.

        Thank you both for all of your work and for this wonderful site. You are a blessing to all of us.

        God bless you~
        Barbara

    • Dear Barbara:

      As I wrote yesterday, I have been incredibly busy, in fact, back home the term to be used would be, “busier than a one armed paper hanger in a wind storm,” which, as you can imagine, would be quite busy. However, for you, as well as all of the other respondees, I realize that the comments and questions that I have been looking over need a serious and thoughtful response. In fact, this Blog is comparable to what would be a class setting where students have questions, as well as a church setting where people are asking questions. I have not really seen it as that until yesterdy when I began to look back over some of the comments and questions. Thus, as my time is beginning to free up some what, I will be addressing those questions and comments that I feel are pertinent to what is being discussed with regard to “eternal life,” versus “temporary life.”

      God bless you,

      Justin T. Alfred

      • Justin~

        I know that you are very busy, so I appreciate your getting back to me to let me know that you will address this issue when you get the time.

        God bless you.

        Your sister in Christ~
        Barbara

  4. I think this passage, which really begins in Hebrews 5:12, is one of the strongest proofs that true, born-again believers can lose their salvation. It is about the perils of not progressing, of not moving onto maturity due to apathy. I very much appreciate learning the Greek, but I just see no other way to read the plain words of Hebrews 6:4-6, that those people who have received the witness of being born again, who have been partakers of the Holy Spirit, and who have had their eyes open to the Word of God, and who have experienced God’s very power, “If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame” (v. 6).

    Christ willingly sacrificed Himself once that, through Him, we might receive eternal life. To live a life that is marked by such an ungrateful heart that there is no growth beyond the fundamentals and to basically thumb our noses at God’s commands to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, to take all thoughts captivity to Jesus Christ, to crucify our flesh as did Jesus Christ, and to submit all things to Jesus Christ, and then at the end, “claim” Jesus Christ’s blood over our lives is, as verse 6 says, is to “put [Him] to an open shame.” He willingly submitted Himself to the shame once out of love so that we could have the opportunity of being saved to allow Him to live in us and through us. He will not be put into open shame by those who lived lives of apathy. How can believers think such a thing? How can this, in any way be justified? It makes my heart sick to think that believers have put such a cheap price on the life of the God who came to Earth to die for us.

    Let us all press into God with a humble heart and contrite spirit. We need to study, to pray, to repent, and to fast. We need to take responsibility for our walk. He saved us personally, and we need to learn and grow personally.

    Your sister in Christ~
    Barbara

    • Hi Barb,
      We are on opposing sides but for the same reason.
      First, in my belief, one cannot “fall” away if one is a TRUE believer. There is so much in God’s word to learn and, if one is TRULY born again, it is impossible to go else where. Yes we will ALL continue to sin (not intentionally) but He died for those sins. There is NOTHING we can do for salvation. NOTHING. Jesus has done it all. If we are truly diciples of Jesus the Christ we cannot fall away. Those that do fall away are not true believers.
      Please understand, I was not born-again until I was 43 years old. Before that I was a true pagan. I tried Buddahism, Taoism, Hinduism, took a peek at Islam and anything in-between.
      So when I say I believe there is nothing I can do it comes from knowing how lost I was and thank Him every day for waiting for me to ask Him into my heart.
      I am a 27-year Navy veteran. I was exposed to death many times and I KNOW that had Jesus not waited for me (if I had died), I would be in hell today.
      I hope I articulated that correctly.
      This is written WITHOUT RANCOR and in sincere love from one disciple to another.
      Thanks for your time.
      May God bless you and yours.
      In Christ,
      Lupe Torrew

  5. “For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: BUT IF [ANY MAN] DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NOT PLEASURE IN HIM.”

      • I’m not seeing what all the Greek grammar stuff has to do with the Eternal Salvation debate. And as for the Greek grammar in John 10, wasn’t Jesus speaking in Aramaic? Why not do a grammar break down of Aramaic instead for that passage?

  6. I’m undecided on if it is possible for a true born-again believer to walk away from God to the point of forfeiting salvation, but regardless I agree that salvation is not fragail, it’s not something you can just lose. Christ paid a high price for our redemption for the church to try to make it look like something you can just lose.

    • Timothy~

      I’m not sure how long you’ve been on this blog or whether you’ve read my comments on eternal security, but it was my very ignorance on the topic that led me to really study the Bible along with prayer, fasting, and repentance in order to find out what God’s Word really said on the topic. God has no desire to leave us in the dark, and He has given us His Word so that we don’t have to. It stands to reason that if we are to know what it says, that we can find out what it says. My main study lasted for about a year although I am still finding examples that very much support the idea that a true, born-again believer can lose his or her salvation. Having said that, however, I would never suggest that you or anyone just take my word for it. It is up to each person to search and reconcile God’s entire counsel (II Tim. 3:16), to study it (II Tim. 2:15), and to be led into all truth by the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:13). Only then can the truth be owned by the believer. While I believe that people, either through apathy, rebellion, or committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, can reject their salvation, I do agree with you that it “is not fragile; it’s not something you can just lose.”

      I do have some comments that I have posted for consideration as you begin your study. On the September 19 blog, I posted my comments on how I had I reconciled Scripture and some other thoughts. They can be found on the introductory page (This blog page was split) by doing a word search for “It is true.” In addition, on the main page of the September 19 blog, I have given four examples to study that support that believers can lose their salvation. You can find them in a post I wrote to Dee by doing a word search for “I had written.”

      I pray that we will each put forth the effort that we need to find the truth because, as each one of us seeks to personally know the Word of God, I know that we will see God’s faithfulness to reveal it to us.

      Your sister in Christ~
      Barbara

  7. Talk about straining a gnat…please read the passage in context starting with Heb 4:14 HNV and try placing yourself there when Paul was writing the letter and not 2000 years after the fact with all the hind sight that goes along with it. Paul wasn’t expecting 2000 years to pass by when was penning the letter. He was talking to Jews about concepts only Jews would comprehend. That is why he said they ought to be teachers and not babes. The gentiles Paul was writing and speaking to while alive would be the babes in their understanding at such an early time from the resurrection. Try the HNV and YLT and don’t take the traditional Christian replacement theology perspective. When I try it, it becomes clear to me that in Heb 6:4-6 HNV Paul is reiterating that Messiah was the ultimate sacrifice and the Hebrew people need not go back and offer another sacrifice as they were accustomed to because it would simply mean sacrificing the Messiah again.

    For concerning those who were once enlightened (Exd 13:21 HNV, Exd 25:37) and tasted of the heavenly gift (Exd 16:31-32 HNV), and were made partakers of the Ruach HaKodesh (Job 33:4 HNV), and tasted the good word of God (Pro 30:5 HNV), and the powers (Exd 15:6 HNV) of the age to come, and then fell away (Lev 16:3 HNV), it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.

    Eternal or temporary salvation was not the issue here – sacrifice was.

    J.

    • Great comment Jerry…I agree with you and I also am learning that we need to recognize that we English speaking 21st century gentile believers have a tendency to read into scripture our own 21st century theology and world view and culture.

      I have been studying 1st century Greek language and thought…as well as 1st century Hebrew and Judaism as it would have been known at the times yeshua walked the earth.

      This has helped me to better understand scripture..

      • God presented animals to Adam to see what he would name them. Naming is a revelation of the namer and additionally enables spirit to know more of the physical/spirit perception of existence. People accustomed to obtaining what is desired have a world view relational to themselves. We are manner blinded that our concepts and reasoning are innately offensive to the I Am Who is the sum and Creator. Perfection demands new understanding of the concepts adore and worship. Truly the New Testament relates an astonishing miracle, a phenomenal, transformational giving that is practically unheralded due to convoluted perspective.

        Psa 27:4 One [thing] have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. Psa 29:1-11
        1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
        1Cr 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
        Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
        Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

      • Tom~

        I think it is commendable for anyone to add to his or her knowledge by learning the Greek and Hebrew languages, and learning the culture during the time that Yeshua walked the Earth an even greater benefit. However, and I don’t say this as any type of criticism at all but to give a little perspective, we need to realize that relatively few people have had the opportunity since the time of Christ to study these languages and cultures, and the only reason most people today, including myself, get any exposure to them is mainly because of the Internet, and yet, believers have always been held accountable to learn the truth of God’s Word (II Tim. 2:15) and have been given the assurance that they could (Jn. 16:13) without the extra education. Awhile back, Justin Alfred said something to the effect that, while learning the Greek does add richness to the Word, it doesn’t change the meaning.

        Have a blessed day!

        Your sister in Christ~
        Barbara

      • Tom~

        I responded to your comments, but I mistakenly posted them as a new post below and not from the ‘reply’ button.

        Barbara

    • Jerry~

      I assume you are addressing me. I’ll tell you what. You tell me how you know what Paul was or wasn’t expecting, and I’ll address the rest of your comments.

      Barbara

    • Thank you for your comment. Taking the “whole counsel” of God’s word and having faith that God leads us every day into right relationship with Him will always keep us within reach of the Sheppard.

      God bless you!

      🙂

      • Tess~

        I posted some comments for you to consider on the October 3 blog after your letter to Dee.

        Barbara

    • Dear Jerry:

      I want to thank you so very much for your critique of what I initially wrote on Hebrews 6:4-5. However, it is indeed difficult to accurately appraise someone’s critique such as yours and just exactly what you are referring to when you say, “please read the passage in context starting with Heb 4:14 HNV and try placing yourself there when Paul was writing the letter and not 2000 years after the fact with all the hind sight that goes along with it. Paul wasn’t expecting 2000 years to pass by when was penning the letter.” First of all, it is not absolutely just who wrote Hebrews, but whoever did, they were fully inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit to do so. Secondly, I completely agree with you that whoever the writer was, he had no idea that you and I would be reading his epistle in the year 2012. Thirdly, I also agree with you that this writer is writing to clearly explain to both Jewish believers, as well as Jews as a whole, that Jesus was and is, without any equivocation, the PROMISED MESSIAH! On the other hand, I must categorically disagree with you in your statement, “He was talking to Jews about concepts only Jews would comprehend. That is why he said they ought to be teachers and not babes. The gentiles Paul was writing and speaking to while alive would be the babes in their understanding at such an early time from the resurrection.” When we look at the Gospels, we see that Matthew was indeed writing in order to impress Jews in particular that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies in the Old Testment, but he also wanted to clearly demonstrate the the Gospel went far beyond Judaism; Mark is seen as an outreach to the Gentile community, but it certainly has an outreach to Jews as well (e.g., Mark 3:1-7); Luke, on the other hand, has a universal approach from what might be described as a historical/scholarly approach to the life and ministry of Jesus that would be read by Jews, Romans, and Hellenists as well; and John is the quintessential apologetic Gospel, which would touch all of the issues of his day, as well as throughout human history, including Jewish, Greek, Roman, and any and all philosophies that focus on the self-deification of man, versus worship of the One, True God, of Whom Jesus was and is the manifestation of and the way to. That in turn brings me to your nrxt comment about the epistile of Hebrews and to whom the author was writing: “He was talking to Jews about concepts only Jews would comprehend. That is why he said they ought to be teachers and not babes. The gentiles Paul was writing and speaking to while alive would be the babes in their understanding at such an early time from the resurrection.” There is partial truth in what you are saying with regard to the Jews as a whole having a ready comprehension of the issues being discussed in the book of Hebrews, but once again, I completely disagree with your assessment that “He was talking to Jews about concepts only Jews would comprehend.” Without any doubt, many of the matters discussed in Hebrews would be foreign to a Gentile audience, but on the other hand, there are things in Hebrews that transcend Jewish tradition and culture, for example Hebrews 1-2 would be quite relational to a Greek and Roman Gentile world with regard to the deity of Jesus, as well as His coming to deliver them from the “power of death” by becoming like them, and yet, “He is without sin,” and therefore, Jesus can dispense “mercy and grace” to them in “time of need” (Hebrews 4:14-16). In addition, chapters 11-13, although dealing with Jewish history, contain such powerful truths that are in no way limited to simply a Jewish audience, but any and all believers in Jesus can receive, be blessed, and grow in the truth of those chapters. In addition, there are legitimate perceptions as to where the epistle was directed, from Jewish believers in Palestine, to Jewish believers in Rome, where the epistle would have had immediate dispersion among Gentiles as well. With regard to the date, there is no absolute certainty, but there are three reasonable choices: a date immediately preceding the fall of Jerusalem (70 AD) if Palestine was the destination of the epistle because no mention is made of the destruction of the Temple; a date befor the Neronic persecutions (64-68 AD) based on Hebrews 12:4 in that the recipients, according to the writer, “had not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your strving against sin”; or perhaps 95 AD (during the time of Domitian’s reign and his persecution of Christians, 81-96 AD), based on Clement’s epistle to the Corinthian believers, where Clement makes clear reference to the sacrificial system under Judaism and its application to ALL BELIEVERS, including Gentile believers to whom he was writing (chaps. 40-41): “These things therefore being manifest to us, and since we look into the depths of the divine knowledge, it behoves us to do all things in [their proper] order, which the Lord has commanded us to perform at stated times. He has enjoined offerings [to be presented] and service to be performed [to Him], and that not thoughtlessly or irregularly, but at the appointed times and hours. Where and by whom He desires these things to be done, He Himself has fixed by His own supreme will, in order that all things being piously done according to His good pleasure, may be acceptable unto Him. Those, therefore, who present their offerings at the appointed times, are accepted and blessed; for inasmuch as they follow the laws of the Lord, they sin not. For his own peculiar services are assigned to the high priest, and their own proper place is prescribed to the priests, and their own special ministrations devolve on the Levites. The layman is bound by the laws that pertain to laymen. Let every one of you, brethren, give thanks to God in his own order, living in all good conscience, with becoming gravity, and not going beyond the rule of the ministry prescribed to him. Not in every place, brethren, are the daily sacrifices offered, or the peace-offerings, or the sin-offerings and the trespass-offerings, but in Jerusalem only. And even there they are not offered in any place, but only at the altar before the temple, that which is offered being first carefully examined by the high priest and the ministers already mentioned. Those, therefore, who do anything beyond that which is agreeable to His will, are punished with death. Ye see,177 brethren, that the greater the knowledge that has been vouchsafed to us, the greater also is the danger to which we are exposed.” Indeed, as you read Clement, you see just exactly the opposite of what you are asserting with regard to what Paul (or whoever was the author) was writing in the epistle of Hebrews, “He was talking to Jews about concepts only Jews would comprehend.” Therefore, with all due respect to your thesis, Jerry, as I stated above, I would have to completely disagree with your assertion.

      Now with reference in particular to your comment about Hebrews 6, as well as the end of chapter 5, neither of these chapters is in any way limited to the Jews: “That is why he said they ought to be teachers and not babes. The gentiles Paul was writing and speaking to while alive would be the babes in their understanding at such an early time from the resurrection.” I do not know from where you are drawing these conclusions, but dear brother, they are absolutely not solid or sound, and I would strongly encourage you to go beyond your current source to one that is far more accurate, solid, and substantial in its biblical, theological, and historical perspective. The exhortation in 5:11-14 is universally applicable to all men and women, of all cultures, during all time periods since the resurrection of Jesus. And thus, so too is Hebrews 6. There is an approach to biblical research and interpretation that is presenting itself as new and revolutionary, and it is called Discourse Analysis. I have read some of the material and exegesis analysis associated with it, and first of all, it is not new, but rather it is a renewed application of what genuine scholarship is supposed to be about – that is, historical, grammatical, and cultural analysis and interpretation of the text. I do not know if this is what you have been exposed to, but if it is, some of those who are promoting DA are doing so with an attitude that this is some new approach that has never been done before, and thus, if you do not embrace their approach, you are ‘missing God’ with regard to proper exegetical research and interpretation. Indeed, what they are encouraging Bible students to do is good, but it is neither new, nor is there presentation of biblical research and analysis the ‘apex’ of scholarship as some of its adherents are presenting it – it has already been around a long time. It is, quite frankly, a ‘marketing approach’ in order to sell their material, which some of it is good, but it tends to present itself as the ‘only way’ to properly study Scripture, and only through their material will you find the truth. My caution for you, dear brother, if this is what you have been exposed to, is to be very careful that you do not fall into that narcissistic trap of thinking that you have found THE WAY to study Scripture, and everyone else around you is ‘missing the boat’. On the other hand, if this is not where you are coming from, then disregard all of this, but do be careful about what appears an attitude of ‘having arrived’ with regard to biblical research and study with such a remark as, “Try the HNV and YLT and don’t take the traditional Christian replacement theology perspective.” This is my suggestion and counsel to you for you to consider because I am in no way embracing a “Christian replacement theology,” as you suggest, but rather a historical, linguistic, and cultural approach in order to provide an accurate application of biblical truth for today.

      The last response I want to make has to do with your comment, “Talk about straining a gnat . . .” I am assuming you are talking about the analysis I did of the Greek, which indeed is very important to accurately understanding what is being written. In a previous comment, someone asked why make such a “bid deal” about the New Testament Greek, versus translating Aramaic, since that was the language Jesus spoke? That is an excellent point, and the answer to that is quite simple – we have no extant texts at all of anything that might possibly have been written in Aramaic, but God sovereignly chose to have the writers of the New Testament, from the very beginning, write the Gospel in Greek because that was the common language of the Mediterranean world at that time to where the Gospel was being spread. Within a hundred years (i.e., by the middle of the 2nd century AD), however, both the Old and New Testaments were translated into the Syriac language, and that translation is called The Peshitta. In addition to that, the Old Testament was translated into Greek beginning ca. 250 BC and finished some time in the 2nd century BC, ca. 150. It is also quite interesting to note that ca. 90% of the Old Testament quotes in the New Testament come from this Greek translation, which is called the Septuagint, and that means 70 in Latin, which was named that because of the 72 Jewish, rabbinical scholars who worked on that translation of the Hebrew into Greek. And the reason that was done was because after the conquest of the whole of the Middle east, Southern Europe, and North Africa by Alexander the Great between 336-323 BC, and as a result of his incredible conquests, Greek became the common language of business and scholarship for that whole region. People obviously still retained their regional languages, but for the vast majority of Jews in Alexandria, Egypt by the middle of the 3rd century BC, they were far more familiar with Greek than Hebrew. Thus, Ptolemy II (283-246 BC – King of Egypt) commissioned the 72 rabbinical scholars to translate the Hebrew OT into Greek, which would also be contained the Alexandrian Library. Therefore, words are very important in coming to understand God’s truth, both in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Syriac, Latin, etc., as these are the sources from which we have derived our English. And not only that, but beyond Hebrew and Aramaic, Sumerian, Akkadian, and Ugaritic are also quite important in helping us to understand difficult passages in the Hebrew Old, and the reason for that is that in God’s sovereign will and plan, Hebrew is an amalgamation of these other Semitic languages, and even Arabic can be helpful at times in understanding just what is being expressed in the Hebrew. Therefore, in Hebrews 6:4-6, it may indeed appear that I am “straining at a gnat to swallow a camel,” but in reality, in those verses, it is imperative to understand those words in their context with regard to what Paul, or whoever wrote this epistle is wanting to communicate concerning “falling away” from the Lord.

      Jerry, I once again want to thank you for your critique because ” Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another” (Proverbs 27:17), and on behalf of BLB, thanks so much for your contribution to this ministry through your comment.

      God bless you,

      Justin T. Alfred

  8. Oh my! Wow! Ouch! – remember the old Batman TV serials? I really don’t intend, expect or silicate any come back replies to what I post. My intent (not always picked up on) is simply to offer opinions, questions and thoughts as a “sounding board” (a term I wrote to you once in reply to your very first post) for the Blog-o-sphere to mull over and go to Yeshua, our True Source of knowledge and wisdom and take it up with HIM. I’m a no body, just a name on a virtual page.

    I don’t usually read the long comments, as they tend to ramble on (pause here for dramatic affect) unless they are directed at me and even then it takes effort. Posts should be short and concise and to the point, something not easily done (I refer to myself as an example). Someone’s immediate reply to my last comment here agreed with me (tom was the name given), but more important, was able to say what I tried to, in a short, concise and to the point manner. Hats off to them.

    That being said, I will try to itemize what you wrote, skipping all the copying and pasting you did and reply in turn as concisely as I can because lunch hours, evenings and weekends is all I have to do it in.

    -You spend considerable time and text disagreeing with something I never wrote or at least intended to imply. Misunderstanding happens often as we project our own thoughts and experiences into what others write as we read it in blogs. The words “exclusively written to” do not appear in my comment and was not my intent. Yet you go on and on as if it did. So, I’ll disregard any argument you make against that implication of your own, which is a large portion. Scripture can have an intended audience such as Hebrews, Corinthians, Galatians, Timothy, Philemon or they can represent those doing the writing, John, James, Peter and in the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacobs’s divine providence make it relevant for all humanity, even those who were dead before it was written. To quote an old friend, “now int dat sump’m”, but you know all this I’m sure.

    -Next, (not being very concise am I?). I was never aware of or even heard of “Discourse Analysis” until you presented it to me. I’ll take your advice and disregard it and what you project of it towards me. Don’t worry, Yeshua and my sources are all above board. No profiteering theological schemes that float in and out of the assembly of believers (and BLB) like wolves in sheep’s clothing behind what I write. It’s straight from the heart and I’m not trying to take the high road as compared to others faith either. As much as I might try, Yeshua does not let me.

    -HNV (Hebrew Names Version) and YLT (Young’s Literal Translation). These are available in BLB and offer an alternative perspective to the “traditional” versions. Very few believers are career professional Christians with school degrees and library shelves of resources to refer to. BLB is an excellent resource for the common man and that is all I mean in referencing them.

    -Do you know of the American Folk Song “There’s a Hole in the Bottom of the Sea”? The last verse of one of several different versions reads as such;
    “There’s a fleck on the speck on the tail
    on the frog on the bump on the branch
    on the log in the hole in the bottom of the sea.”
    Try not to miss the simple beauty of the Sea by straining to see the fleck.

    Closing thought. I may have missed it, but I didn’t find a critique of my Heb 6:4-6 HNV exegesis. I don’t mind the sparks that fly when Iron sharpens Iron. I know a Fireman who quenched the flames in my life many years ago and HE alone is faithful, not me.

    Humbly yours,

    J.

    • Jerry~

      Justin certainly doesn’t need my help defending his position, but I do have a few things to say. I think he very much picked up on the intent of your post because I came away with the exact impressions; therefore, there was no “Misunderstanding” on his part, and he did not “project [his] own thoughts and experiences” into what you wrote. He gave a clear rebuttal to your claims, with depth, clarity, and examples, things I know far too well that you don’t like because they disprove your theology.

      You say that you “…really don’t intend, expect, or silicate [?] any come back replies to what [you] post,” but I think it is better understood that you don’t want any contrary opinions to what you post. You just want to put forth your unbiblical ideas with no resistance as when you falsely accuse Christianity of ‘replacement theology,’ as you have done here and elsewhere without giving even one example. Personally, I don’t think you even know what it is because you have wrongly applied it to Christianity with absolutely no proof. As I have written before, you can’t just say anything you want. The burden of proof is yours to provide concrete evidence, not one-liners or words from a TV show in an attempt to take the focus off your inability to reasonably and scripturally defend your comments. That Justin was able to provide so much information to negate what you had to say should really have been met by you, if you are the one who has the truth, with well thought-out answers, not criticisms about being misunderstood.

      You wrote that “The words ‘exclusively written to’ do not appear in my comment and were not my intent.” I’ve been subjected to this brand of logic from you many times. No, you didn’t use those exact words; however, you did use the exact words, “He was talking to Jews about concepts only Jews would comprehend,” which means the same thing, does it not?

      I think asking Christians to be silent or to write “short and concise” answers when you have attacked them and their theology is made even more unreasonable by the fact that you don’t offer any proof whatsoever with your accusations. If you want to express your opinions without fear of rebuttals, and you certainly have that right, then it might be better if you get your own website and don’t include a ‘comment’ option; however, when you get on a Christian blog, then you are accountable to Christians for what you say about Christians. This should come as no surprise, Jerry. In addition, to say that you are just here “to simply to offer opinions, questions and thoughts as a “sounding board” that we are, then, to “go to Yeshua” is not true at all because you are putting forth your ideas as facts, not possibilities, and the reason is because your real agenda is not to throw out ideas for thought to take to Yeshua but to condemn Christianity. You made that quite clear when you wrote, “Christianity is a religion gentile believers in the Hebrew Messiah created for themselves to co-opt the Covenants, Promises and Kingdom that the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob gave to Israel (Jacobs’s new name).” I’m still waiting for an answer on that one, even a “short and concise” one.

      Finally, where, exactly, is the “exegeis” that you put forth on Hebrews 6:4-6? It can hardly be called a textual criticism when you begin your argument with the remark, “Talk about straining a gnat…” and end it by furnishing the scriptural citations of the descriptors already given. The only other thing you did was to write several sentences about this being only for the Jews, which was put to rest by Justin rightly saying that this passage, although written to them, was not just for them. You then concluded that “Eternal or temporary salvation was not the issue here – sacrifice was,” but you offer no evidence that ties your claims with your conclusion. In addition, Justin provided some excellent explanation on many topics meant to educate us on how we are to approach Scripture, but you didn’t address even one except to say that you hadn’t heard of Discourse Analysis. You may not fully think that you have, as Justin wrote, “found THE WAY to study Scripture, and everyone else around you is ‘missing the boat,'” but your theology very much supports the idea that you and those people of a similar mind have the only correct interpretation of it. Now, there’s nothing wrong with having the correct interpretation of God’s Word. That’s why He gave it and the Holy Spirit to us, so that we would know His truth; however, the problem lies with the fact that your doctrines and conclusions are at odds with the whole counsel of God. Anyone can prove anything with proof texting, but that is not how we are to approach God’s Word.

      I actually didn’t mean to write as much as I did, and I certainly hope that I haven’t stepped on Justin’s toes with my comments, but Jerry, at some point you have to face the fact that you have not, in even the smallest degree, been able to meet the objections about your interpretation of God’s Word with reason and scriptural fidelity. All that you have put forth are unsubstantiated accusations augmented with attacks on those who disagree with you and with comments about how you are being unfairly portrayed. This is neither good argument nor good theology. What it is, though, is the same mindset manifested in the LDS Church:
      ~As the latter-day restoration of Christ’s primitive church on Earth they, alone, teach the true gospel.
      ~All Christian denominations are teaching lies of men, “their creeds an abomination to God.”
      ~Mormons, alone, have the real truth of the Bible, given by Joseph Smith through his many revelations.
      ~They never honestly address the inconsistencies apparent in their doctrine because to do so would mean that they have been deceived into spending their time, energy, talents, money, and loyalty on a lie, and no one, understandably, wants to do that.
      ~They never hold themselves accountable to anyone but themselves, and not surprisingly, they never disagree, at least not out loud; that would be construed as lack of faith, putting their very salvation in jeopardy, not to mention their jobs, marriages, and family relationships and, understandably, no one wants to do that either.
      ~If someone on the outside disagrees, and it becomes obvious that they can’t really defend their position, they will attack the other person and cry persecution.

      Jerry, if just one of these descriptions fits you, then you have the wrong theology, and you are in the wrong group. Please be honest with yourself. God loves you and knows exactly where you are, and He desires for you to walk in His truth and will guide you into it.

      I will be praying for you~
      Barbara

  9. I hope this will find it’s way to Christians who will pray for me. I have been in full-time ministry for over 20 years, and I am very depressed.

    • Eric~

      I have just prayed for you and will continue to hold you up. Among other things, I prayed that God will reveal to you the source of your depression so that you will know how to combat it through spiritual means. We know the enemy seeks to kill, to steal, and to destroy that which God has given us. I will stand with you in agreement that no weapons formed against you will prosper and that you will know the very real presence of God in your trial. We have a God who is mighty to save, so do not listen to anything or anyone that is telling you differently.

      May God bless you as you press into Him and seek His will and wisdom.

      Your sister in Christ~
      Barbara

      • Thank you so very much! I know that I am appealing to strangers, (no Pastor wants his flock to know that he is in trouble) but even still I am also appealing to brothers and sisters in Christ!

    • Eric, Today is Feb 26,2013 it has been a few months since you commented, I hope and pray that you are doing better by now, but in case you are still suffering with depression I pray for you brother that God bring you out of the depressed state you may find your self may he give you peace in your soul healing in your mind (sound mind), just know that He is the healer keep your eyes focused on Him take your eyes off of yourself and remember what he has done its all about him ( the cross). From experience; when we focus on our issues of life struggles and pains our eyes are off of Jesus some become depressed, just release these issues to the Father and look at what our savior went through for us, nothing else matters. Strive to be holy for He is holy. The Father brought me through some difficult times longing for my relationship w/ my children and grndchild that I hardly ever see I am only 47, and now I have breast cancer facing a double mastectomy, but God has given me peace through all of this! Praise His name! He holds my hand. I hope this helps. praying!

  10. So it sound like the Greek is saying in Hebrews 6:4-6 is that it is possible for someone to choose to change their mind about their eternal salvation?

  11. Thanks for the insights on this passage. The best part of it is verse 9 “even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case – things that accompany salvation” – Our Creator is obviously in charge of our salvation – we make choices about the things that “accompany our salvation” … in HIM we live and move and have our being. It’s not brain surgery. God bless.

  12. When we accept (that is all we have to do)Christ we are sealed with His promise,God has and never will break a promise He is always faithful Praise Him! We are adopted sons & daughters of the Father & heirs to the throne of Jesus! That means; we can not take ourselves away from the Fathers hand, you cannot undo what God has done, you are His child now and forever! When you willfully sin and stray from him He is going to discipline His children until you turn back to Him remember the prodigal son. Thank you Father for your faithfulness cause without you I could never make it! It is nothing I can do, it Christ in me! Thank you for the blood Jesus! In Christ, Cynthia