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Emphatic Negations in Hebrews 6 (introducing verses 9-12)

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If you are joining us for the first time, please be sure to read the previous posts in this series:

We are now going to look at Hebrews 6:9-12:

“But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.”

In verse 9, the author of Hebrews begins a response to the readers of his epistle with regard to what he just said in verses 4-8 concerning the very real possibility that there are some who, having professed a belief in Jesus, and even having “been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” can utterly reject Jesus and turn away from all they experienced, and thus, be as one who does not have a saving relationship with Jesus at all. However, in verses 9-12, it is evident he doesn’t believe this applies to those whom he is sending this epistle to. In discussing this very issue in the previous blogs, I pointed out what I see in this portion of Scripture as a clear reference to the “second soil” described in Luke 8:6 & 13, and, therefore, if you have not read anything before this blog concerning this matter, I strongly encourage you to go back and read what has already been written because I will not be going into detail again on this critically important issue. Just note that the “second soil” represents someone whose relationship with Jesus and experience of the Holy Spirit is an emotionally superficial one that may last for an indefinite period of time, but because this person has no “root,” or a genuinely deep and real born again encounter with Jesus, this person will eventually turn completely away from Jesus.

However, before we begin looking at verse 9 and the other verses in this section, let me first of all say that the reason I attempt to explain as clearly as possible the meaning of the grammatical and syntactical aspects of the Greek of these verses is this: there was a reason God had the Old Testament written in both the Hebrew and Aramaic languages and the New Testament written in the Greek, and that reason was, and is, that all three of these languages contain an inherent wealth of linguistic expression that God chose to use to reveal His living truth; therefore, if He had intended for this truth to be disseminated thoroughly to a lost and dying world for salvation, redemption, healing, and restoration through some other linguistic means, then He would have done so. But He didn’t.

As a young believer at Mississippi State University, I would often hear preachers and teachers come and teach on various subjects and refer to the Greek and Hebrew. And then, I would hear other preachers and teachers deprecate those who attempted to explain more clearly the Word of God using the original languages by saying that knowledge of those languages was totally unnecessary. Interestingly, as you may have guessed, the latter were the ones who didn’t know the languages, and oftentimes, even as a young believer and a ‘meathead’ (i.e., a football player), I would discern that their teaching was lacking and their emphases not fully supported by their reasoning and arguments. Thus, I determined, as we say back home in Mississippi,  to “go to the horse’s mouth” and see firsthand what was being said without being dependent on some other person to make that explanation for me.

Thus, God opened the door for me to learn and become immersed in the original languages of the Old and New Testaments, as well as many of the cognate languages of both texts for the very purpose of more clearly, accurately, and simply communicating His living and abiding truth to nonbelievers who need to come to Christ, and then also to believers that they might grow in Christ to the maturity and discipleship He has called them to. Having said this, therefore, we will now begin to look at Hebrews 6:9-12.

In verse 9, we read, “But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.”

The phrase “we are convinced” is a powerful statement in English, but in the Greek, it is really powerful. The actual verb is πεπείσμεθα (pepeismetha), and it comes from the root verb πειθώ (peithō), which means “to come to a particular point of view or course of action.” In addition, in this particular instance, the verb is in the perfect tense, which indicates a completed action with an ongoing and continuous result. It is also in what is called the passive voice, which means that someone or something has caused someone “to come to a particular point of view or course of action.” That is, in the context of this passage, the writer of Hebrews is saying that it was their lifestyle that caused him to be “convinced” that they had genuinely committed their lives to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and are truly born again. When the perfect tense is added, it is emphasizing the fact that the author sees their commitment as a “deep rooted” commitment to Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and the result of that commitment is that there is an ongoing and persevering walk with the Lord by means of the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

In addition, this ongoing and persevering walk is even in the face of personal failures, mistakes, misdirection, etc., because in the face of and through all of these hindrances, setbacks, and spiritual, mental, intellectual, emotional, and even physical hurdles, these believers have pressed forward in Christ through repentance, brokenness, faith, and daily surrendering to the Lordship of Jesus over their lives, and all of that has in turn produced the visible ‘fruit’ of surrendered lives to Jesus’ Lordship, whereby the author says, “we are convinced of better things concerning you.”

However, the next clause is equally powerful because it buttresses what he just said about being “convinced” of their genuine salvation in Christ when he adds, “and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.” The phrase, “and things that accompany salvation” may literally be written, “and the things that indicate one continuously has salvation.” There are only two Greek words in this phrase, σωτηρίας (sōtērias), which means “salvation,” and the Greek verb, ἐχόμενα (echomena), from the root verb, ἔχω (echō), which means “to have.”

The form of ἐχόμενα (echomena) that is used in this instance is what is called a present, middle, plural, neuter participle, which means the following:

  1. the present tense is indicating an ongoing, continuous action;
  2. the middle voice emphasizes the person or thing as carrying out the action specifically;
  3. plural simply means it is more than one person or thing producing the action;
  4. neuter is not referring to a person as such, but rather aspects or characteristics of whatever is being discussed;
  5. and the participle is what is called a verbal adjective, which means it is describing an active state about a person, thing, or event.

Thus, when we put all of this together, ἐχόμενα (echomena) is describing the continuous inward and outward “things” that manifest one is a genuine, born again believer who has an eternal, forever relationship with Jesus, as Jesus describes in John 10:27-28: “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.”

(Stay tuned for more…)

Comments

  3. Amen…..I would like to add something for thought. Understanding of the original languages are needed along side understanding of the Hebrew mindset and customs. The Holy Spirit not only chose the specific languages, but a specific people for communicating His truth to the world. The Western, or European pattern of thought is very different from the Jewish people and their neighboring enemies. Darkness can never enter into a room full of light, only light can enter and displace darkness. So it is with God and His truth. The Alpha and Omega of Light was specific in the choice of the classroom location, the teachers, and the language.

  4. Justin at BLB~

    Before I start, I just want to again say that I very much appreciate the many insights that you have brought to us, and although, as you know, I disagree with some of your conclusions, I pray that I have never done so with any degree of disrespect because that is not what has ever been in my heart.

    I also have another quick observation about the “…other preachers and teachers [who would] deprecate those who attempted to explain more clearly the Word of God using the original languages by saying that knowledge of those languages was totally unnecessary. Interestingly…the latter were the ones who didn’t know the languages, and … I would discern that their teaching was lacking and their emphases not fully supported by their reasoning and arguments.” I, for one, would never criticize anyone who has put forth the time and effort to increase his or her knowledge base, especially with regard to Scripture, and I don’t even presume to know even one iota of what you do with regard Hebrew and Greek. However, what concerns me is that from the time when God’s written Word went into the world, there have been tens, if not hundreds, of millions of believers who have known neither Hebrew nor Greek and who didn’t have access, as we do today, to resources (e.g. formal education, vast libraries, the Internet) who were still held accountable to know and apply the absolute truth of God’s Word (Acts 17:11, I Thess. 5:21, II Tim. 2:14-16). How do you reconcile this with your conclusion that without understanding these languages that “their teaching was lacking” and that “their emphases [were] not fully supported by their reasoning and arguments”? This would also disagree with something you wrote in an earlier commentary, that while knowing the Hebrew and Greek languages does add depth and richness to God’s Word, it doesn’t change the meaning of it. I write this because I believe, and I say this with all due respect, that while your understanding of the languages themselves may be of the highest level, I do not believe that the conclusions you have reached are in keeping with the plain written sense of the verses, which I hope to illustrate.

    As you suggested, I went back to the October 17 post on Luke 8:13, which says, “They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.” You wrote, “Metaphorically, …Jesus says these are the individuals who ‘when they hear, receive the word with joy.’ In other words, there is apparently a great emotional response to their ‘receiving the word’ of the Gospel, and others can obviously see it, giving the impression that these individuals have truly committed their lives to following Jesus as their Lord and Savior. However, Jesus then makes an important statement about these individuals and says, ‘and these have no firm root.’ The word ‘firm’ is in italics because it is not in the original Greek text, but it is put in there as implied by the text. Thus, what Jesus is saying is that these people who ‘receive the word with joy,’ and apparently great emotional fervor, in truth ‘have no root (i.e., any real ‘spiritual depth’)’ at all with their inward commitment.”

    In addition, you wrote, “The word for ‘believe’ … [indicates] an ongoing and continuous belief. Yes, there is an emotionally superficial appearance that is ‘for a while.’ The Greek translated for ‘a while’… means ‘a period of time that is limited and not permanent.’ Thus, these individuals ‘continue to believe for a period of time,’ which could be for a day, a week, a month, a year, a decade, a quarter of a century, etc., but ‘in time of temptation fall away.’ This in turn coincides with… the aorist verbs in Hebrews 6:4-5 … that something happened without making any reference to the time allotted for their being ‘enlightened, having tasted, and having been made,’… just as the individuals of the second soil in Luke 8:6 & 13. However, just as with the emotional, superficial belief of those in Luke 8:6 & 13, whose belief was temporary ‘for a while,’ so too with the temporary and emotionally superficial belief of those described in Hebrews 6:4-5 – it was not permanent, but simply happened for an undetermined period of time, and then they fell away.”

    As I’ve written before, it seems to me that, because of your belief in eternal security, that you stop short of saying that true believers can lose their salvation, and I think this is what you have done in Luke 8:13, so I’d like your thoughts on what I think this verse is saying. While it is true that this verse says that these people “have no root” (rhiza G4491), meaning that it was a “superficial experience of divine truth” and that these people have not “permitted it to make its way into the inmost recesses of his soul” (Thayer’s), I don’t see anything in the verse that links these truths to the conclusion that they were merely “giving the impression that [they had] truly committed their lives to following Jesus as their Lord and Savior.” What the verse does say is they did “receive the word with joy.” According to Thayer’s, the word “receive” (dechomai, Strong’s G1209) means “to receive favorably, give ear to, embrace, make one’s own, approve, not to reject,” which illustrates, that initially, their commitment was as real as anyone’s who “shall endure to the end” (Matt. 24:13) and not just an “emotionally superficial appearance.” In addition, according to Strong’s, Thayer’s, and Vine’s, the word “joy” (chara, Strong’s G 5479) simply means “joy and gladness,” not a “great emotional response,” a phrase that I believe incorrectly implies a lack of initial commitment to Jesus.

    To further support the view that these people were not committed believers, you have combined the facts that there is “no [firm] root” and that they believed “for awhile.” While it is true that the phrase “for awhile” is indefinite and can mean “a day, a week, a month, a year, a decade, a quarter of a century, etc.,” I think we can safely eliminate the first three of these for the simple reason that no person who has been born-again has any “[firm] root” in himself or herself within these time frames. When read in the context that they did “receive the word with joy,” this illustrates that they were true believers in every sense of the word although they did, after some time had passed, fail to develop a firm root within themselves, to grow beyond the fundamentals (Heb. 6:1-2) into the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ (II Pet. 3:18), rendering themselves powerless to stand against “a time of temptation.” Consequently, they did “fall away,” which, as you wrote is the word ‘aphistemi’ (Strong’s G868), meaning “to withdraw one’s self from: absol. to fall away” (Thayer’s). You wrote that this was a “continuous, ongoing action of ‘revolting and going away’ from Jesus,” which, because they were saved at one time, is loss of salvation, isn’t it?

    Thank you, and I would appreciate any comments about what I’ve written.

    God bless you~
    Barbara

    • Dear Barbara:

      Thanks so much for your critique, and as I told you, I have and am cataloguing your points with regard to your belief that a true, born-again believer can lose their salvation because they are what many hold to and definitely need to be addressed. However, what you wrote in this blog response transcends just the question of the security of the believer, and it brings up some aspects about truth and error that need to be addressed now.
      The first point you raised was about what I said about some preachers when I was in college who deprecated other teachers who would refer to the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek in their teaching us college students with regard to apologetics and the things we were facing in a secular university. Without any question, knowing the original languages of the Bible is not the key to understanding the truth of God’s Word, knowing Jesus is the key, and I came to know Him on October 1, 1965, as an 18 year old football player at Mississippi State, and subsequent to my being born again, I had two pastors who gave me two pieces of advice that became bedrock, foundational truth in my life: (1) The first told me to begin studying the Bible as though it was another course, and I did, so that in the Fall during football season, when I would take only 12 hours of academic class work due to the demands of football practice, watching films, etc., I was actually taking 15 hours, as I set up for myself my own, independent study of the Bible, and I still have those notes today, which became the foundational bedrock of my Christian life those first four years at Mississippi State. (2) The other pastor told me about prayer, and that I could take everything to God in prayer, and when he showed me his prayer log, I was overwhelmed that I could indeed bring everything to God in prayer, from football, to my studies, to dating, to the war in Vietnam, to the political situation in our country at the time, as well as the tyranny and oppression of Communism – all of these things I could bring before the Lord, as well as my own personal struggles, and the basis of this prayer was Philippians 4:6-7: “Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Thus, as we say down home in Mississippi, at the time, I didn’t know Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek ‘from Adam’s housecat’, but the Lord taught me His Word by His indwelling Holy Spirit who was and still is living and abiding within me, and this is based on I John 2:27: “And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” John wrote this as he was dealing with the heresy of Gnosticism, which taught that you couldn’t know the truth of God unless you went to a special ‘pneumatikos’, that is, a ‘spiritual one’, who had a special annointing to teach the truth, and in addition, you had to go to their special gathering as well. The truth, however, is that every born again believer has the Holy Spirit living and abiding within him or her, and He is our teacher, not men. God uses men and women to speak and present His Word to us, but the Holy Spirit is the real and ultimate teacher, not any one man, nor group of men. Having said that, know Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek in no way makes anyone a man or woman of God, and I have known some Biblical linguistic scholars in my day that I wouldn’t want to come and teach my Sunday School. Thus, it is not just the knowledge of these languages, or any other Biblical discipline of study (e.g., systematic theology, church history, apologetics, historical theology, etc.) that makes anyone a man or woman of God, but it is the daily surrender to the Lordship of Jesus in our lives as Jesus shared with His disciples: “And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 “For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it” (Luke 9:23-24). When I pastored in South Louisiana right out of Seminary, I had a brother and sister in my church, Catherine and Richard Lilliman, who were both illiterate. However, the sister had gone to a mission school soon after she was saved and learned to read the King James Version of the Bible in a sigh-sound method. One day I bought her a NAS, thinking that would help her to better understand the English, but she couldn’t read it. In fact, she couldn’t read the label off of a soup can, as my wife found out. Her brother, Brother Richard, couldn’t read anything, and when he would pray in his Cajun dialect, I could hardly understand what he was praying, but I knew what he was praying as his brokenness before the Lord permeated his prayers, and we would all at times also come broken before the Lord as he would pray. This dear lady and her precious brother knew a depth of spiritual truth that not many of my seminary professors knew, and they knew it because the Holy Spirit taught them through their personal relationship with Jesus. Miss Catherine would read to Brother Richard, and that is he knew the Word of God, but the Holy Spirit made it real to his heart and mind as John wrote in I John 2:27. Therefore, with regard to my comment about those pastors who didn’t know the Biblical languages and their deprecatory comments about those who did, as I grew in the Lord over a period of time, I came to realize that those men were doing that because they felt threatened by these other men’s knowledge in some way, perhaps even jealousy, and in order to make themselves feel better about themselves, they tore them down to make themselves feel superior to them. As I said, I didn’t understand this at the time, but as I grew older and had more experience in the ministry, I would see that more and more. I will be the first to tell you that I have met many who know far more than what I do in the field, that I am in, and as I would be around them, I would begin to notice a carnal competitivenss arising within me that was nothing less than jealousy. That is when God exposed that sin to me and brought me to Philippians 2:1-8: “Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.” I discovered, therefore, that in my carnal heart, I was wanting to “make a reputation for myself” over against those guys, and the Holy Spirit intensely convicted me and lovingly disciplined me, showing me true source of idendity is in being a servant as Jesus was and “esteeming others as more important than myself.” Therefore, I now rejoice in those who know far more than me, and I pray for God’s blessing and annointing upon them. On the other hand, with what God has given me, I am his bondservant, as are we all who are His children, and I want to do what I do as “heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men; 24 knowing that from the Lord I/you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom I/you serve” (Colossians 3:23-24). Thus, only God knew then and knows now the heart of those pastors who deprecated the others who knew and used the Hebrew and Greek (if they are still with alive), but as I look at it now, I do believe it was their attitude that negatively affected their preaching and teaching because there was a pride of attempting to compare themselves with those who knew the Hebrew and Greek and present themselves as actually, through their lack of knowledge, being more spiritual than those who did know. That came across quite clearly, and thus, their teaching was laced with that pride and self-promotion, versus what we read in Philippians 2:1-8. Thus, as Paul said of himself toward the end of his life, tha
      t he saw himself as the “least of all saints” (Ephesians 3:8) and the “chief of sinners (I Timothy 1:15), so too do I, and I realize the ONLY THING I HAVE TO APPEAL TO IS THE GRACE OF GOD ALONE! As we would say back home in Mississippi, I see myself as ‘a hair, on the wort, of the backside of a hog’, and thus, the leas to the least, my only appeal being to the depth of God’s grace and mercy toward me.
      With regard to the second half of your critique concerning the ‘second soil’ described in Luke 8:6 and 13, I am going to respond even more thoroughly to this and your other questions. However, as with the remarks that others made about man’s nature not really being that bad, which to me is a foundational truth, equal to the deity of Jesus, so too here, in your comment, “I think we can safely eliminate the first three of these for the simple reason that no person who has been born-again has any ‘[firm] root’ in himself or herself within these time frames,” I must say, Barbara, that I categorically, unequivocally, and resolutely disagree with that statement. Barbara, if indeed this is what you really believe, then there is a fundamental difference that may not be broached at all in our discussions. What you seem to be presenting, with all due respect, is a concept that our salvation is conditioned by our works, and I can in no way, at any time, or under any circumstance support that perspective as being biblically correct. It almost appears as well that what you are preseing is the perspective that we really do not have any assurance of our salvation. Without any hesitation, therefore, I will tell you that I firmly believe that when one is truly born again, the root is firmly planted, and genuine regeneration has occurred, which will be followed by the lifelong process of sanctification and growth in holiness to the Lord. That growth will inclued failure and misdirection, but for that person who is a genuine child of God, it will also include God’s loving and persistent discipline that will cause us “to share His holiness” (Hebrews 12:10). Quite frankly, what you appear to be advocating is the same thing that Islam advocates – there is no assurance of one’s eternal state because they are ‘working their way to heaven by their works’, and only at the judgment will they know. In fact, it is this very belief that they have that I begin with whenever I share with them the love, grace, mercy, forgiveness, and assurance we have in Jesus, who is indeed the Son of God, and through His sacrifice alone, not their corrupt works (and I go over with them in detail about that and their continued failure to keep the law), that has made the way for their salvation. Therefore, the certainty that is given to God’s children through faith that they have the assurance of their salvation and an eternal, heavenly home, I see as absolutely foundational as I do the deity of Jesus Christ, and the following passage expresses both the absolute insufficiency of our works to not only procure our salvation, but also to be the means that keep us saved (as we grow in Christ, we see even greater depths of our sin, but the far greater depth of God’s grace as Paul did in Ephesians 3:8 and I Timothy 1:15): “Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations shall be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. 10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us– for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree “– 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith” (Glatians 3:6-14).
      Thanks again for your critique, and as I said, when I finish with Hebrews 6:4-20, I am going to answer your’s and other’s questions specifically about losing or not losing one’s salvation.

      God bless you,

      Justin T. Alfred

      • Although this was directed toward Barbara, I thank you for taking the time to respond a share this!

        Elijah

      • Hi Justin~

        I have a few comments, but I won’t have it posted until Monday.

        God bless you~

        Barbara

      • Justin~

        Thank you for responding. Although there are great benefits of blogs such as this one, one of the drawbacks is that there can be misunderstanding because there is no immediate feedback possible. Although you have clarified here what you meant by how believers learn the truth of God’s Word and that “Without any question, knowing the original languages of the Bible is not the key to understanding the truth of God’s Word, knowing Jesus is the key,” I still can’t reconcile this with your original post. Aside from the fact that these preachers might have “felt threatened” or that “their teaching was laced with that pride and self-promotion” because they “didn’t think it necessary to know the languages to know biblical truth, you wrote, “I would discern that their teaching was lacking and their emphases not fully supported by their reasoning and arguments.” Now, if this refers to the depth and richness of God’s Word, then that would be a valid point, but if this refers to the plain truth of God’s Word, which you have previously said doesn’t change, it still doesn’t seem to me that this is what you said because you wrote that their “teaching was lacking and their emphases not fully supported by their reasoning and arguments,” which I understand to mean that they didn’t know the basic truth of God’s Word because they didn’t know the original languages. I just can’t see any other way of understanding what you have written. If their understanding of Scripture was truly lacking, then perhaps it had nothing to do with their not knowing the languages at all, which is not required, and all about failing to “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (II Tim. 2:15) so that the Holy Spirit would “guide [them] into all truth” (Jn. 16:13b).

        You brought up the point about Jehovah’s Witness treatment of John 1:1 and how a correct understanding of the Greek helped to clear up the confusion. I don’t say that there isn’t any place for knowing the original languages, but the fact is that the Jehovah’s Witness have taken great liberties with all verses that testify to Jesus being God, but it isn’t because they are unfamiliar with the Greek; it’s because they are a pseudo-Christian cult that cannot understand God’s Word as we are told in II Corinthians 2:14, which says, “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.” What we are discussing is what the Bible is saying to believers, given that it is to them that God gave His written Word, and its plain truth can be understood by studying and praying and repenting with no need of the original languages. That is why, I assume, that we were given so many different witnesses to the truth, so that amid any misunderstanding that may arise from one verse or passage, there are many others that testify to God’s absolute truth, wouldn’t you agree?

        In response to my comment, “I think we can safely eliminate the first three of these for the simple reason that no person who has been born-again has any ‘[firm] root’ in himself or herself within these time frames,” you wrote that you “… categorically, unequivocally, and resolutely disagree with that statement,” saying that “What [I] seem to be presenting … is a concept that our salvation is conditioned by our works.” You also wrote, “It almost appears as well that what you are [presenting?] is the perspective that we really do not have any assurance of our salvation” and then compared my comments to the “same thing that Islam advocates.” You said other things, but this is the gist of your comments.

        Let’s clear up the Islam comment first. As someone who spent 40+ years in Mormonism before I was saved and who has done a great deal of study on pseudo-Christian cults, I am acutely aware of the biblical difference between grace and works with regard to salvation and how to rightly divide verses such as Galatians 2:16, Ephesians 2:8-10, and James 2:26. Secondly, I have never stated, let alone implied, that believers are “working their way to heaven by their works” or that they don’t have “assurance of [their] eternal state” or that they don’t have the “certainty that is given to God’s children through faith.” Unfortunately, these are the only conclusions that so many people in the body of Christ can reach because they are excluding much of God’s Word from consideration when formulating doctrine. My four examples are only a handful of the scores of verses and passages that I have found in addition to those that other people on this site have offered as proof. Many people have told me that I am wrong, but not one person has taken my four examples and proven me wrong, including the six or seven people that I have personally asked. It’s a little difficult discussing the validity of eternal security with you because you haven’t addressed them yet, and with all due respect, I don’t know how you and others can tell me that my conclusions are wrong and make assumptions like you have above when you have neither rebutted my opinions in the examples nor even considered them.

        Although you have said that you are going to address my concerns later, considering the things you have about me here, I think that we can discuss a few of my examples to prove that when I, or anyone else, says that a believer can lose his or her salvation, it, in no way implies a salvation “conditioned by our works.” Some of the strongest proofs are found in the “If” verses. Here are a few of the twenty or so that I found (caps mine):

        ~“Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off” (Rom. 11:22).
        ~“In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister” (Col. 1:22-23).
        ~“But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end” (Heb. 3:6).
        ~“For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end” (Heb. 3:14).
        ~“IF ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But IF ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons” (Heb. 12:7-8).
        ~“Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father” (I Jn. 2:24).

        All of these verses are directed toward believers, and as you can see, not one of them mentions “works” as a condition of salvation although they do mention that our final salvation is conditional upon certain things, illustrating that merely being born again or even walking with the Lord for years does not guarantee that believers will enter the kingdom of heaven. There’s no reason for me to go through each one because you can figure them out for yourself, but I would like to draw attention to the last phrase in Romans 11:22, that those who don’t continue in God’s goodness “shalt be cut off,” which is absolutely not loss of reward. In addition, because we know that no Scripture is at variance with any other Scripture, if even one verse proves that salvation can be lost, as each of these verses do, then all other verses must be brought into alignment with them. If these verses are not speaking of losing one’s salvation, then what spiritual truths are they imparting?

        To my comment that “I think we can safely eliminate the first three of these for the simple reason that no person who has been born-again has any ‘[firm] root’ in himself or herself within these time frames,” you wrote, “I must say, Barbara, that I categorically, unequivocally, and resolutely disagree with that statement….Without hesitation, therefore, I will tell you that I firmly believe that when one is truly born again, the root is firmly planted, and genuine regeneration has occurred, which will be followed by the lifelong process of sanctification and growth in holiness to the Lord. That growth will [include] failure and misdirection, but for that person who is a genuine child of God, it will also include God’s loving and persistent discipline that will cause us “to share His holiness” (Hebrews 12:10). There might have been a misunderstanding, so let me clarify. Although I disagree that Scripture teaches that every true commitment to the Lord will be “followed by the lifelong process of sanctification and growth in holiness to the Lord” because I don’t believe the Bible teaches eternal security, and I don’t believe that the person who loses his or her salvation wasn’t, at one time, a “genuine child of God,” I never said or implied that that the person who was born again had not experienced a “genuine regeneration.” I totally believe that this is exactly what happens. What I said is that no one in the first three time frames has a “firm” root, not that he or she didn’t have a “genuine” root. The difference can be seen by analogy. A seed, once it has died, becomes a seedling. Now, this seedling has a genuine root, but it doesn’t have a firm root, meaning that, at first, it is short and spindly. Consequently, if the winds and rains and hot summer temperatures beat upon it before it has a firm or sturdy root, then it will be unable to withstand the harsh weather, and it will die. The reason that I eliminated the first three time frames is that, although the root is genuine in the new believer, that person has not walked with the Lord long enough to even grow beyond the foundational truths of the faith (Heb. 6:1-2) because they’re just learning what the Bible says. They have not done much in terms of crucifying the flesh with its lusts (Eph. 4:22, Ti. 2:12) beyond maybe the drinking and smoking that you wrote about earlier. They have not been saved long enough to weather the trials and tribulations that come with a new spiritual life (Rom. 5:3, II Th. 1:4), and it is these things, among others, through which we develop a firm or strong root, and it just isn’t going to happen within a month of being born again when people are learning the milk of the Word. Finally, how do you reconcile your comments at the beginning of this paragraph about “genuine regeneration” and the “root” and “to share His holiness” with Luke 8:13? According to what you have written, believers cannot lose their salvation, but Luke 8:13 says that these people “receive the word with joy” and “for a while believe” and then “in time of temptation fall away,” not because they have no root at all, because you wrote that “the root is firmly planted” when one is “truly born again,” which the people in this verse obviously are but because they have no “firm” root, which you say is implied. It is these people who, because they have not developed a firm root within themselves, will fall away; they will leave the truth because they cannot withstand the temptation that has come their way.

        I know you are busy, and I very much appreciate the time you devote in responding to my posts as well as to the posts of others. I hope I have clarified any misunderstandings about what I believe. Even though you are going to address my examples later, I would be grateful if you would even address Romans 11:22 if you have a minute. Thank you.

        God bless you~
        Barbara

        • Justin~

          Actually, an even greater understanding can be received from Romans 11:20-22.

          Barbara

  5. We read that God spoke creation into existence. God presented animals to Adam to see what he would name them. Naming is a revelation of the namer and additionally enables spirit to know more of the physical/spirit perception of existence. Just as declensions and descriptors are keys to understanding from the micro to the macro the inverse is also available. Before and after the flood the entirety of human being spoke one language. God inserted additional languages. A rabbi has posted an interesting video on Youtube entitled, “The Hebrew Language is the DNA of Creation”.

    The book of life referred to almost exclusively in the last book of the bible is a record of names among other details. The book of life is also another indication of the precision of names with, and evidence that every person is known to God. Each person in the entirety of human existence is remarkable, is known. The life of each person is noted and has consequence. We are relevant, we creatures of God for His purpose.

    Undoubtedly, God created language. There is no idle component of words, letters or sounds with God. The bible displays biographies, episodes and tragedy that are examples, not mere casual description but as full as ancient theatre can be reproduced to convey a thorough understanding.

    1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
    1Th 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
    1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over [God’s] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

    The entirety of scripture presents failure of the flesh. Jesus refers to His followers as sheep. The apostles and disciples are exhorted to tend the flocks, (churches).

    Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge?
    Eze 18:3 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have [occasion] any more to use this proverb in Israel.

    Know God, or lose your balance. Salvation becomes more evident. One cannot be explained into salvation.

    Eze 18:3-32

    Peace Brethren

    • Barbara Leferve, with the fullness of grace bestowed upon her from Jesus Christ, has clearly rebutted the heresy propigated on this blog.

  7. Justin, is it your position that one needs an intermediary(other than the Holy Spirit) who knows Greek and Hebrew to understand Scripture? Please stop spreading heresy, you may be causing others to fall from grace!

    REVELATION 3:3-19

    • Dear Zach:

      Thanks so much for your critique and for your very important question. However, in response to your direct question, “is it your position that one needs an intermediary(other than the Holy Spirit) who knows Greek and Hebrew to understand Scripture?” Dear Zach, there is no “intermediary” between us and Jesus but the Holy Spirit! As I responded to Barbara above, I will copy it for you so you can read what I was talking about:
      “The first point you raised was about what I said about some preachers when I was in college who deprecated other teachers who would refer to the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek in their teaching us college students with regard to apologetics and the things we were facing in a secular university. Without any question, knowing the original languages of the Bible is not the key to understanding the truth of God’s Word, knowing Jesus is the key, and I came to know Him on October 1, 1965, as an 18 year old football player at Mississippi State, and subsequent to my being born again, I had two pastors who gave me two pieces of advice that became bedrock, foundational truth in my life: (1) The first told me to begin studying the Bible as though it was another course, and I did, so that in the Fall during football season, when I would take only 12 hours of academic class work due to the demands of football practice, watching films, etc., I was actually taking 15 hours, as I set up for myself my own, independent study of the Bible, and I still have those notes today, which became the foundational bedrock of my Christian life those first four years at Mississippi State. (2) The other pastor told me about prayer, and that I could take everything to God in prayer, and when he showed me his prayer log, I was overwhelmed that I could indeed bring everything to God in prayer, from football, to my studies, to dating, to the war in Vietnam, to the political situation in our country at the time, as well as the tyranny and oppression of Communism – all of these things I could bring before the Lord, as well as my own personal struggles, and the basis of this prayer was Philippians 4:6-7: “Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Thus, as we say down home in Mississippi, at the time, I didn’t know Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek ‘from Adam’s housecat’, but the Lord taught me His Word by His indwelling Holy Spirit who was and still is living and abiding within me, and this is based on I John 2:27: “And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” John wrote this as he was dealing with the heresy of Gnosticism, which taught that you couldn’t know the truth of God unless you went to a special ‘pneumatikos’, that is, a ‘spiritual one’, who had a special annointing to teach the truth, and in addition, you had to go to their special gathering as well. The truth, however, is that every born again believer has the Holy Spirit living and abiding within him or her, and He is our teacher, not men. God uses men and women to speak and present His Word to us, but the Holy Spirit is the real and ultimate teacher, not any one man, nor group of men. Having said that, know Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek in no way makes anyone a man or woman of God, and I have known some Biblical linguistic scholars in my day that I wouldn’t want to come and teach my Sunday School. Thus, it is not just the knowledge of these languages, or any other Biblical discipline of study (e.g., systematic theology, church history, apologetics, historical theology, etc.) that makes anyone a man or woman of God, but it is the daily surrender to the Lordship of Jesus in our lives as Jesus shared with His disciples: “And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 “For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it” (Luke 9:23-24). When I pastored in South Louisiana right out of Seminary, I had a brother and sister in my church, Catherine and Richard Lilliman, who were both illiterate. However, the sister had gone to a mission school soon after she was saved and learned to read the King James Version of the Bible in a sigh-sound method. One day I bought her a NAS, thinking that would help her to better understand the English, but she couldn’t read it. In fact, she couldn’t read the label off of a soup can, as my wife found out. Her brother, Brother Richard, couldn’t read anything, and when he would pray in his Cajun dialect, I could hardly understand what he was praying, but I knew what he was praying as his brokenness before the Lord permeated his prayers, and we would all at times also come broken before the Lord as he would pray. This dear lady and her precious brother knew a depth of spiritual truth that not many of my seminary professors knew, and they knew it because the Holy Spirit taught them through their personal relationship with Jesus. Miss Catherine would read to Brother Richard, and that is he knew the Word of God, but the Holy Spirit made it real to his heart and mind as John wrote in I John 2:27. Therefore, with regard to my comment about those pastors who didn’t know the Biblical languages and their deprecatory comments about those who did, as I grew in the Lord over a period of time, I came to realize that those men were doing that because they felt threatened by these other men’s knowledge in some way, perhaps even jealousy, and in order to make themselves feel better about themselves, they tore them down to make themselves feel superior to them. As I said, I didn’t understand this at the time, but as I grew older and had more experience in the ministry, I would see that more and more. I will be the first to tell you that I have met many who know far more than what I do in the field, that I am in, and as I would be around them, I would begin to notice a carnal competitivenss arising within me that was nothing less than jealousy. That is when God exposed that sin to me and brought me to Philippians 2:1-8: “Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.” I discovered, therefore, that in my carnal heart, I was wanting to “make a reputation for myself” over against those guys, and the Holy Spirit intensely convicted me and lovingly disciplined me, showing me true source of idendity is in being a servant as Jesus was and “esteeming others as more important than myself.” Therefore, I now rejoice in those who know far more than me, and I pray for God’s blessing and annointing upon them. On the other hand, with what God has given me, I am his bondservant, as are we all who are His children, and I want to do what I do as “heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men; 24 knowing that from the Lord I/you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom I/you serve” (Colossians 3:23-24). Thus, only God knew then and knows now the heart of those pastors who deprecated the others who knew and used the Hebrew and Greek (if they are still with alive), but as I look at it now, I do believe it was their attitude that negatively affected their preaching and teaching because there was a pride of attempting to compare themselves with those who knew the Hebrew and Greek and present themselves as actually, through their lack of knowledge, being more spiritual than those who did know. That came across quite clearly, and thus, their teaching was laced with that pride and self-promotion, versus what we read in Philippians 2:1-8. Thus, as Paul s
      aid of himself toward the end of his life, that he saw himself as the “least of all saints” (Ephesians 3:8) and the “chief of sinners (I Timothy 1:15), so too do I, and I realize the ONLY THING I HAVE TO APPEAL TO IS THE GRACE OF GOD ALONE! As we would say back home in Mississippi, I see myself as ‘a hair, on the wort, of the backside of a hog’, and thus, the leas to the least, my only appeal being to the depth of God’s grace and mercy toward me.”
      In other words, dear brother, the Holy Spirit is our teacher, period, and we do not need any other man, or group of men to teach us – HE IS OUR TEACHER! Miss Catherine Lilliman and Brother Richard, her brother, are perfect examples of that. On the other hand, knowing the languages can be very helpful, as for example with the Jehovah’s Witnesses who butcher John 1:1, as well as other passgaes, based on what they think is genuine and accurate interpretation of the Greek in that passage. However, they are entirely wrong because what they say about the Greek is equal to the mathematical equation, 2 + 2 = 6. Thus, those who know math know that is ludicrous, but those who might not know math wouldn’t necessarily know if that is right or wrong. Thus, knowing Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek are a definite aid in helping us discern the truth and apply that truth in our lives. So, once more, in response to your question, you don’t even have to know how to read, as Brother Richard Lilliman didn’t, but his sister read to him, and God used the spoken Word that he heard to bring him to a saving faith in Jesus, as well as enable him to grow and be a light for the Gospel of Jesus Christ in South Louisiana among the lost Cajuns in that region of the country.

      God bless you,

      Justin T. Alfred

  8. If the BLB blog continues to spread Calvinism and it doctrines as the gospel, I will no longer use nor support BLB in any form.

    • Dear Zach:

      Thanks again for this critique, as well all of them. Dear brother, the BLB blog is not aimed at spreading any “ism,” and neither am I. However, what I am wanting to spread is God’s truth through as clear, thorough, and understandable a manner as possible. Let me assure you, dear brother, I am in no way attempting to come in line with what John Calvin said, or Jacob Arminius, Martin Luther, or Augustine, or John Wesley, or George Whitfield, or Johathan Edwards, or Billy Graham, or Chuck Smith, or any man, but rather with the whole counsel of God’s Word because it is to that alone that I will be judged before the Judgement Seat of Christ, not whether I was Calvinistic or Arminian in my belief. On the other hand, I have read all of these men because I wanted to know from the ‘horse’s mouth’ what they were actually saying, versus reading what someone said they were saying. I do not know if you have read Augustine’s “The City of God,” or Martin Luther’s “Bondage of the Will,” or John Calvin’s the “Institutes of the Christian Religion,” or “The Works of Jacob Arminius,” or John Wesley’s and Johathan Edwards’ sermons, or B. B. Warfield’s theological writings and apologetics, and on and on. I am in no way saying your Christian walk is incomplete without reading these men, but I will say, categorically, that if you are going to honestly and accurately critique anyone’s writings of positions, read what they say, versus what others say they say. Thus, for excample, if you are going to witness to Muslims, then you should know first hand what they believe by informing yourself of what the Quran and the Hadith actually say.
      Thus, dear brother, I am in no way ‘looking through the writings of any man’ to interpret Scripture, but I am interpreting it as I have read it myself and God has made it real to me. Yes, I have read all of the other men I have mentioned above, but they are mere men, and the Holy Spirit, not they, is my teacher (I John 2:27).
      May the Lord continue to bless you as you seek to serve and follow Him, and thanks again for your critique and response.

      God bless you,

      Justin T. Alfred