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Prophetic Promises & The Law

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Guest post by Justin Alfred

Previous posts in this series:

Having laid the foundation in previous posts, we are now ready to begin studying the prophetic promises that relate to Jesus’ first and second comings, and in doing so, we will also look at the Dead Sea Scrolls and some very amazing prophetic predictions relating to Jesus’ first coming that were absolutely “right on the money” as far as their accuracy is concerned. We will also look at some of the predictions in the Dead Sea Scrolls relating to the “end times,” and we will observe that with those predictions, as well as more recent predictions within the last 170 years, Jesus was right – no one knows when the end will occur and when He will return!

From the beginning of the biblical revelation, we see glimpses of God’s promise of a Savior that will deliver God’s people from the penalty of sin and provide an eternal relationship with God for those people. Therefore, we are going to look for some of these promises through the Old Testament according to its three major divisions:

  1. the Law
  2. the Prophets
  3. the Writing

We will only look at some of the promises because time does not permit us to do an in depth analysis. But the purpose of looking at the few scriptures regarding Jesus’ first coming is to demonstrate that God’s promises are absolutely and unequivocally real and true, and He will keep them! Today, we will look at the Law.

I. The Law

When we speak of the Books of the Law, we are referring to the first five books of the Old Testament—Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

And the promise of the first coming of the Messiah we are going to look at in the Law is found in Genesis 49:8-12:

8 Judah, your brothers shall praise you; Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; Your father’s sons shall bow down to you. 9 “Judah is a lion’s whelp; From the prey, my son, you have gone up. He couches, he lies down as a lion, And as a lion, who dares rouse him up? 10 “The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until Shiloh comes, And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples. 11 “He ties his foal to the vine, And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine; He washes his garments in wine, And his robes in the blood of grapes. 12 “His eyes are dull from wine, And his teeth white from milk.
(Genesis 49:8-12)

As you read this passage, you will immediately see a connection with verse 11 and Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem just prior to His crucifixion in the following passages: Matthew 21:1-11; Mark 11:1-10; & Luke 19:28-40. I will quote Matthew 21:1-11 for our reference:

1 And when they had approached Jerusalem and had come to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied there and a colt with her; untie them, and bring them to Me. 3 “And if anyone says something to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord has need of them,’ and immediately he will send them. 4 Now this took place that what was spoken through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, 5 “Say to the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold your King is coming to you, Gentle, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden. 6 And the disciples went and did just as Jesus had directed them, 7 and brought the donkey and the colt, and laid on them their garments, on which He sat. 8 And most of the multitude spread their garments in the road, and others were cutting branches from the trees, and spreading them in the road. 9 And the multitudes going before Him, and those who followed after were crying out, saying, “Hosanna to the Son of David; Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest!” 10 And when He had entered Jerusalem, all the city was stirred, saying, “Who is this?” 11 And the multitudes were saying, “This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth in Galilee.“
(Matthew 21:1-11)

The Zechariah connection

Here is the significant point: the specific prophecy being referred to in verse 5 is from Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” However, what is very interesting is that the precursor of this prophecy may be seen as Genesis 49:11: “He ties his foal to the vine, And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine; He washes his garments in wine, And his robes in the blood of grapes.”

Therefore, as we look at the progression of this prophecy, from Jacob of his son Judah and his progeny, to Zechariah, to Jesus fulfilling this, we see God’s thread of prophetic truth, that indeed, “the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10). In addition to the colt in verse 11, we can see a very clear metaphor of Jesus’ sacrifice for our sins as it says “He washes his garments in wine, And his robes in the blood of grapes.”

“The scepter shall not depart from Judah”

And not only are the above two aspects of prophecy fulfilled in Jesus, but also what is stated in verse 10: “The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until Shiloh comes, And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.” This whole phrase is both Messianic and eschatological, which is oftentimes what we find in biblical prophecy. The phrase, “the scepter shall not depart from Judah” is describing the fact that both the human rule (i.e., kings of Judah, including David and Solomon) and the Messianic rule is going to come out of Judah.

“nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet”

The second phrase, “nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,” is also of tremendous importance from both the Messianic and eschatological perspective. In the Hebrew, this phrase is written, וּ ְמחֵֹ ֖קק ִמ ֵ ֣בּין ַר ְג ָ ֑ליו (ûmĕhōqēq mibbên raglāyw). Literally it is read, “and he intensely continues decreeing between His feet.” The word, ְמחֵֹ ֖קק (mĕhōqēq), is what is called a polel participle; it is the word that is translated “ruler’s staff.” Participles can be translated as both a verb and a noun, and as a noun it is what is called a “substantive,” meaning it substitutes for a real noun. In this particular instance, therefore, the polel form of the Hebrew verb indicates intensive action, and the verb from which it comes is ָח ַקק (μāqaq), which means “to cut into, to inscribe, to engrave, to decree, to enact, and to prescribe (a law, etc.).” Thus, the term, “ruler’s staff” is a Hebrew idiom for this verb which means “someone who is continually ruling, unceasingly.” When translated as a verb, it means “one who intensely continues decreeing as a ruler.”

Therefore, as we put all of this together, and as we look at the context of this passage, which is expressing both a Messianic and eschatological perspective, it is saying that Jesus, the Messiah, is coming from the tribe of Judah. Also, as both Messiah and coming King at the end of the age, He will continue to be “decreeing” His truth regardless of what the “god of this world” has done, is doing, or will do to attempt to silence and negate His power and authority – Jesus wins, and His authority and power are forever permanent (i.e., “between His feet,” which means it will never depart).

“until Shiloh comes”

The third phrase in verse 10, “until Shiloh comes,” complements the previous two verses as far as its Messianic and eschatological perspectives. The actual phrase in Hebrew is a bit uncertain,but it reads, עד ִֽכּי־ָי֣בֹא ִשׁילֹה (‘adkî-yābō’ šîlōh), and it is the wordִ שׁילֹה (šîlōh) that is the center of the problem. Since every Hebrew noun comes from a verb form, the problem is trying to determine which verb it is, as there are three reasonable possibilities: the first word means“tobequiet, prosperous ,content, and at ease”–ָשָׁלה (šālâ) ;the second means “to draw out” – ָשׁ ַלל (šālal); and the third means “to spoil or plunder” – ָשׁ ַלל (šālal). However, each of these is difficult to justify because of the form of ִשׁילֹה (šîlōh).

These things are reserved for Jesus

However, between ca. 250 BC – 132 BC, Jewish, Rabbinical scholars undertook to translate the Hebrew Scriptures into the Greek language, and the result was the Greek Old Testament called the Septuagint, which in Latin means 70, which represents the 72 Jewish scholars who first began this translation. What is interesting to note about the LXX (a common abbreviation for the Septuagint—the Roman numeral for 70) is that it was this translation that was predominantly used by the writers of the New Testament when quoting the Old Testament. Thus, it was considered to be divinely authoritative by the Apostles and early Jewish and Gentile believers in Jesus. That being the case, when we look at the translation of this phrase in the LXX, we find the following rendering in the Greek: ἕως ἂν ἔλθῃ τὰ ἀποκείμενα αὐτῷ (heōs an elthē ta apokeimena autō) – “until the things that are reserved for Him come to Him.”

The translators of the LXX came to this translation by translating the word ִשׁילֹה (šîlōh) as שֶׁלֹּה (šellōh), and then dividing into three different Hebrew words: the first is the Hebrew relative particle שֶׁ (še), which means “that or which”; the Hebrew preposition ל (L), which means “to”; and the pronominal suffix הׁ (ōh), which means “him,” which is typically וׄ (ô), but the הׁ (ōh) can simply be an archaic, alternative form of “him.” Thus, the reading, up to this point in the verse would be, “The sceptor shall not depart from Judah, and he will intensely continue decreeing between His feet, until the things that are reserved for Him come to Him.”

Now we come to the last phrase of this verse, “and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples,” which, once again, speaks clearly of both Jesus’ Messianic coming, and His coming again as King of Kings – in the first instance as Messiah, it refers to all of those who will come to Him as their Lord and Savior, and in the second instance as King of Kings at His Second Coming, it refers to those described in Philippians 2:8-11 who will affirm Him to their own eternal judgment in Hell:

8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Philippians 2:8-11)

Thus, here in the Law, we see a passage that is both Messianic and eschatological that is focused on Jesus, His Person, and His ministry.

Next week, we will look at Prophet Promises and the Prophets.

Comments

  1. I’ve always wondered what the attitude of those people bowing to the Lord who are going to hell is going to be. I can’t imagine God forcing these people to bow because that takes away from HIs true honor, that He is worthy, and His worthiness is recognizable and deserving of a heartfelt acknowledgment of that fact. It would be like forcing people to be saved without their free will coming into play, that His plan of salvation is so bereft of value that one must be either hard-wired or forced to surrender to Him. Rather, I think that these people, at His revelation in which His unobstructed holiness will be evident to all are going to truly comprehend, in the deepest recesses of their minds and hearts, just who Jesus is and fall at His feet willingly and with regret. They may have cursed God prior to this time, not having given themselves to Christ, and they may spend eternity cursing Him, being totally separated from Him, but at that moment, I think they are going to understand His perfect holiness and the perfect love that God is and had for them, knowing, too, that their refusal of Him will now reap that which they sowed, a tragic moment, indeed.

    Barbara

    • I agree.

      Romans 1:19-20 says, “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

      Romans 2:15 says, “Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)”

      Jeremiah 17:9 says, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

      If we put all those verses together, we find that man knows about God’s eternal power and that he is worthy of worship. Man also knows he is unworthy, based on what his conscience tells him. But, his deceitful heart keeps him in a state of apostasy toward God.

      When they actually see Jesus Christ as Lord, they will have no other choice but to accept what they have known all along, and they will finally and willingly bow the knee and confess taht Jesus Christ is Lord.

  2. 1) Mat 2:2 HNV, Mat 27:11-37 HNV, Mar 15:2-26 HNV, Luk 23:3-38 HNV, Jhn 18:33-39 HNV, Jhn 19:3-21 HNV. All these gospel accounts (“gospel” is a poor translation of “euaggelion”, should read “good news” in all places, not selectively as Gospel) describe HIS first coming. As you write, “speaks clearly of both Jesus’ Messianic coming, and His coming again as King of Kings – in the first instance as Messiah, it refers to all of those who will come to Him as their Lord and Savior, and in the second instance as King of Kings at His Second Coming”. “Clearly”, maybe to you it is.

    2) As you write, the “Jewish, Rabbinical scholars” of the LXX translate the Hebrew “ִשׁילֹה (šîlōh) as שֶׁלֹּה (šellōh)” into the Greek language, a language that had no correlating word for a “Messiah”(mashiyach), decided as they did because, to me at least, it seems to match the first “reasonable possibilit(y)” of the verb form for שׁילֹה (šîlōh) and describes who and why HE is to an audience that otherwise would not have known, Act 17:22-23 HNV. That was the purpose of the LXX writers. To introduce Hebrew concepts to the predominant Greek culture of commerce at that time. Today’s culture of commerce is English.

    3) If, as you write, “Thus, the term, “ruler’s staff” is a Hebrew idiom for this verb which means “someone who is continually ruling, unceasingly.” When translated as a verb, it means “one who intensely continues decreeing as a ruler.””. Couldn’t it be concluded that Yeshua is currently KING (of the Jews), not just at HIS second coming as you write it?

    J.

  3. Hi Justin I know this post doesnt necessarily pertain to my question but I had posted my question in the appropriate post weeks agao yet never got a responce back from you see I read your post and I’ve heard the same thing from others as far as the greek goes and thats really been a comforting to me but I recently heard a Seminary professor say that the idea of hebrews 6:6 being temporal based on the present tense is like saying “you can’t stop falling away while you’re falling away.” Or once you have fallen into the water, it is impossible to dry off, so long as you are remaining in the water. He said temporal explanation sounds good at first glance, but it is tautological. I’ve also heard other comentators say for the idea of the author saying someone cant repent while they are constantly renouncing and rejecting Christ is both illogical and should not even need to be mentioned because that is simply commonsense. Please help I dont know how to counter such an argument and they’ve really shaken me up see ive returned to the Lord but about a year ago after i had I committed spiritual adultery I worshiped another being who is not God, I immmediatley repented but now I’m being attacked by hebrews. I departed from the living God, I feel like I did not endure, I feel like I have committed the unpardonable offence. any insight you can provide would be greatly appreciated

    -Chase

    • I hear your pain, your fear, your hurt. Our Father says by the Word of Our Savior and King “Lean not to your own understanding” “My ways are not your ways” “Forgive and it shall be forgiven to you” “Turn back to me and seek my face” “Love me with all your heart and all your soul” “I will never leave you or forsake you” “trust in Me” “Proclaim with your lips the Jesus is Lord” “Accept He is your Savior” “Ask to be forgiven” “Repent and know you are”

      He wishes that not even one would be lost ! Fogive yourself and Know you are loved. Love covers a multitude of Sins.

      Your salvation will be prayed for and claimed for the Kingdom of Heaven.

    • Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. It is doctrine for them after the 69th week of Daniel. There is conditional salvation during that time, as evidenced by people being thrown into the lake of fire for receiving the mark of the beast (Revelation 14).

      Since you are not living in the tribulation period, this verse does not apply to you. You are saved by grace through faith, not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9). You cannot lose your salvation because you have already received the atonement (Romans 5:11).

      • Eric~

        As we are told in II Timothy 3:16, “All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” What this means is that all Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation is to be understood as pertaining to God’s people, regardless of to whom the original book was written. Hebrews is just as applicable to God’s people as Matthew or Romans or any other book. When a person or groups starts dissecting God’s Word, as you have repeatedly done, then it will not be rightly divided (II Tim. 2:15) and false doctrine will result as is evident from your conclusion based solely upon Ephesisans 2:8-9 at the exclusion of James 2.

        I thought I would allow Justin time to respond to Chase’s concerns because he had specifically asked him, but perhaps Justin hasn’t read his post yet. I may post something anyway because Chase is obviously shaken, and he needs something to think about and to study that includes relevant Scripture that has been reconciled.

        Barbara

        • I agree with II Timothy 3:16 that all scripture is for our profit. However, rightly dividing the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15) is critical to understand how the scripture is to be used for our profit.

          We need to understand what scripture is directly applicable to us today, and what scripture is there for our learning but not directly applicable today.

          Chase has been told that Hebrews 6:6 is like an unpardonable sin for today, and I am encouraging him that this is not the case. It is impossible to apply both Romans 5:11 and Hebrews 6:6 to us today at the same time. Romans says we NOW have the atonement. Hebrews says you can lose it and never get it back. Both cannot be true at the same time. By rightly dividing, I recognize that Hebrews was written to the Hebrews for the future, and Romans is written to us today for the present. There are some wonderful truths about the crosswork of Christ that can be found in Hebrews. I am encouraged by Hebrews 12:2 that, as Jesus endured the cross for the joy set before Him, I can also endure trials that come my way for the joy set before me of a rulership position in heavenly places as part of the body of Christ. Certainly, Hebrews is a profitable book for today, as is ALL scripture, but contradictions abound when I try to apply all scripture directly to my situation today.

          For example, in Genesis 6:14 God commands “Make thee an ark of gopher wood.” If I think all scripture is directly applicable to me today, I would have to build an ark to be saved. By rightly dividing the word of truth, I recognize that, while Genesis 6:14 is true and is profitable for me, it is not telling me that I need to build an ark.

          What Christians do is they take contradictory passages and change what they say to make them both true. That is changing God’s holy word, which we should never do. Romans 3:28 and James 2:24 is the perfect example. It is impossible for both to be true at the same time. So, Christians will say that James 2:24 refers to “true” faith or that it is talking about justification in the eyes of God. Both interpretations change God’s holy word into something it does not say. Only by recognizing the audience the scripture is written to do we understand that James 2:24 is not talking to us today, while Romans 3:28 is talking to us today. Therefore, salvation by faith alone (Romans) and salvation by faith plus works (James) are both true, and God’s Word remains holy without lies and without contradictions.

          Just because a scripture is not written to me today does not make it unprofitable. All scripture is for us today, but not all scripture is written to us today. All scripture is profitable, but not all of it is directly applicable.

          Poor Chase is feeling bad because of the lack of recognition of this, and so I wrote to encourage him to rightly divide the word of truth. Praise God he now has the atonement and does not have to worry about committing the unpardonable sin. He has no such assurance without rightly dividing the word of truth.

          • Eric~

            I have some comments about your post, but I wanted to get my response done to Chase first. I will have yours done tomorrow.

            Barbara

      • Thank you Eric I see what your saying as far as atonement, the whole unpardonable sin thing was kinda throwing me off. But thank you for getting back to me you have no idea how crazy this battle has been going the depression has caused me to lose my assurance I’m hoping to get it again.

        • Having grown up in a legalistic church that taught that you lose your salvation by committing one sin and you have to get re-saved over and over again, believe me, I know how hard the warnings in Hebrews can hit you. I spent sleepless nights as a kid, thinking I had an unconfessed sin on my life, and I would die in my sleep and go to hell.

          All I can say is that the assurance of your salvation is in God’s Word. Passages like Romans 5:9,11; Romans 3:28; Romans 6:14; Philippians 1:6; Colossians 2:10; Ephesians 1; Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 1:13-14; and II Timothy 2:13. I now have no doubt about my salvation. John 17:17 says that God’s Word is truth. Trust in what these passages I have mentioned say.

    • Chase~

      I will lift you up in prayer because you are obviously seriously worried about your status in light of what you said you did. I would like to respond to your concerns, but I won’t be able to have anything posted until Wednesday if you would like to come back.

      I pray that God will bless you with wisdom and discernment and guide you through His Word and lead you into the truth that He has promised (Jn. 16:13) and that the enemy will have no sway over your thinking. Make sure that you put on the whole armor of God (Eph. 6:11-18) and stand against the enemy (II Cor. 10:4-5), never giving him place (Eph. 4:27). Above all, no matter what is written on this blog or in any post, including mine, you need to “[search] the Scriptures daily [to find out] whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11b).

      Your sister in Christ~
      Barbara

    • Chase~

      I know that you are very concerned about whether you have committed the unpardonable sin, so I want to share a few insights with you. However, as I wrote, you need to call upon the Holy Spirit (Jn. 13:16) and to check everything I say by the Word of God (Acts 17:11b). We can and should learn from others, but you will never own the Word unless you are in the Word for yourself in addition to prayer, repentance, and fasting. Then, and only then, will you personally have the confidence that cannot be “shaken” and that can “counter” every argument, which is just how God has designed the dynamic between the believer, the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit.

      In Matthew 12:31-32, Jesus says, “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.” Before I write on what the unpardonable sin is, let me explain what it is not. It is not, as many people think, failing to ask Jesus into one’s heart and Lord and Savior. We know this because Jesus says that someone who commits the unpardonable sin will not be forgiven, “neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come,” so not being saved cannot be the unforgivable sin because each believer HAS been forgiven of this sin “in this world.”

      The second point to consider is that Jesus clearly says that we can be forgiven of anything we say against Him; it is only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that will not be forgiven. This point is crucial in understanding just what this sin. The word “blasphemy” (blasphemia, Strong’s G988) means “railing, reviling,…slander, detraction, speech injurious to another’s good name” (Thayer’s). We need to truly understand what could be so horrible an action against the Holy Spirit as to warrant the loss of salvation so that we are not constantly walking in fear that we may have committed it and “That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive” (Eph. 4:14). I haven’t studied this exhaustively, but there are two examples given to explain what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is:

      ~In Matthew 12:22-32 and Mark 3:22-30, one example is given. Jesus had cast out demons, and the Pharisees and scribes said that He had done it by the power of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons. The reason why this is an unforgiveable sin is that the Pharisees and scribes had seen first hand the works of Jesus, works that could only have been done by God, and they attributed them to Satan. Had they just refused to accept Him and His works, as many people did, they still would have been able to receive Him as their Messiah, but these were God’s chosen people who received a witness and knowingly attributed the works of God, the very witness of God, to Satan.

      ~Another example of the unpardonable sin of blasphemy is denying the reality of the truth of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The reason why this is the unforgivable sin is because God, through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ, has given the special gift of the Holy Spirit as a personal testimony of God Himself through Christ (Rom. 8:16) at the moment one is born again. To deny the indwelling truth is to trample upon God’s most holy witness within oneself and calling the Holy Spirit a liar when He says, “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me” (Jn. 15:26). When a person is saved and denies the witness of truth that dwells within him/herself, that denial can only come by the power of Satan; consequently that person’s spiritual house, because it is divided, cannot stand, and the person is forever lost.

      In both of these examples, then, we see that the unpardonable sin of blasphemy is more than just sinning, which we all do; it is a willful denial of the very witness of God. Now, let’s compare these examples with what you did. You said that you “committed spiritual adultery” by worshipping “another being who is not God.” Is this spiritual adultery? It absolutely is, but let me ask you something. Did you ever during this time attribute the works of God to Satan or deny the witness of the indwelling Holy Spirit? From your comment that you “immediately repented,” I would say no; you did not. No one who has committed either of these acts is going to immediately repent because no one who does these things cares, and, obviously, you did care and do care. In fact, for you to feel guilty and humble yourself before God and ask for His forgiveness right after sinning illustrates that the Holy Spirit had not departed from you, which is what would happen, and was calling you to do just what you did…repent.

      To further drive home the point that what you did is not the unpardonable sin, we need only look to the OT, where God’s covenant people repeatedly erected altars to pagan gods in the high places, and He didn’t cast them off but called them to return to Him. Even the millions of Israelites that Moses led out of Egypt started worshipping a golden calf very soon after their deliverance (salvation), but God didn’t cut them off for that, did He? Think about it this way. Anything we put before God, whether jobs, food, power, things, pride, or whatever are all “gods,” aren’t they? They might not have a form like a pagan statue or a persona like the gods of Hinduism, but they are gods, nonetheless, and when we put them before God, we are committing “spiritual adultery,” too, so what you did is no different than what all believers do. The point is that you recognized and repented of your sin. You said that you worry because you “did not endure.” Taken at face value, you are saying that if one sins, he or she hasn’t “endured” and will lose his or her salvation, but this would mean that none of us will be saved because we will all continue to sin and fall short of the glory of God until we die or Christ comes, increasingly less being the goal, of course. True biblical endurance is found by repenting and calling upon our advocate Jesus Christ when we sin (I Jn. 2:1) until the end. We are in a race, a race that will have many trials, some which we face and overcome immediately and some which we face and face and face and overcome eventually. Endurance isn’t defined as not ever sinning; it’s defined as sinning, repenting, and “[pressing] toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus” (Phl. 3:14). That you returned to the Lord about a year ago illustrates that, despite your sin and trial, you are very much enduring, so listen to the voice of reason and truth, not “your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour” (I Pet. 5:8b).

      Finally, you are not “being attacked by Hebrews.” We are told in Romans 8:1 that “[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” The attack and condemnation, then, are coming from Satan who has brought fear and torment into your life to disrupt the work of God in you. James 4:7 says, “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” As far as Hebrews 6:6 goes, when read in context (5:11-6:20), the plain meaning, if not read through a filter of eternal security, is that believers can, indeed, lose their salvation because they have not grown beyond the fundamentals and eventually will fall away through apathy. These verses very clearly put across the point that being born again and learning the basics is not enough, that one cannot be saved, live a life devoid of the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit that results in a transformed life (Rom. 12:2), manifested by growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ (II Pet. 3:18) and then expect, at the end, to receive final salvation. It just isn’t going to happen. Christ is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle (Eph. 5:27), meaning that those who have neglected to submit themselves to God’s circumcision (Jn. 15:1-6) as well as to circumcise themselves (Ja. 4:8) are going to be standing in God’s judgment seat rather than the bema seat. It is a choice that faces each believer every day (Josh. 24:15), and God has told us exactly what the results of our decision will be: “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting” (Gal. 6:8). This is true for unbelievers and believers alike.

      Chase, you have not committed the unpardonable sin, and I will continue to hold you up in prayer that as you press into the Lord with prayer and study that His Word will come alive in your spirit, that your inner man will be strengthened, and that you will no longer be confused but you will, with great wisdom and discernment, rightly divide His Word for your good and God’s glory. God bless you in all spiritual things.

      Your sister in Christ~
      Barbara

      • When we rightly divide the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15), the answer of what the unpardonable sin is is very simple.

        In Genesis 11, at the Tower of Babel, God gave up on the Gentiles, as Romans 1 says, creating a new nation with Abram in Genesis 12, the nation of Israel. This nation was to be a kingdom of priests to reconcile the earth back to God (Exodus 19:5-6). Part of Israel’s program was the law covenant that God made with them through Moses.

        The Old Testament shows us over and over again how Israel broke this law covenant. They are so far from God that this holy nation is now Satan’s lawful captive (Isaiah 49:24-25). But, God still loves them and wants to see them obey His covenant and become His people again.

        Therefore, when we get to the New Testament, God sends John the Baptist, and he is rejected. As such, they have rejected God the Father. Jesus then comes, and they reject Him. As such, they have rejected God the Son. In Acts 2, the Holy Ghost comes, and they reject Him. Having rejected all three members of the Godhead, Jesus stands up and judges Israel (Acts 7:55).

        Having set aside Israel for the time being, He then calls Paul in Acts 9 to begin the dispensation of grace in which we currently live. By rightly dividing between Israel’s program and the grace program, we can understand the scripture.

        Having this background, we can now understand the unpardonable sin. When Jesus says in Matthew 12:31 that “the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men,” He is simply saying to Israel that they rejected God the Father’s testimony through John the Baptist, and they have now rejected God the Son’s testimony through Jesus Christ. There only remains one more member of the Godhead to reject. If they reject God the Holy Ghost in early Acts, Israel will not be forgiven because they have rejected all members of the Godhead. Therefore, Israel will be set aside, and salvation will go to the Gentiles apart from the Jews being the kingdom of priests God called them to be (Exodus 19:5-6).

        This also explains the warnings in Hebrews. Hebrews was written before the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7, as evidenced by the fact that the offer of salvation to them is for “To day” (Hebrews 3:7, 13, 15, 4:7). All four warnings of today are by the Holy Ghost (Hebrews 3:7) not for them (Israel) to harden their hearts as they did back in Numbers 14. If they do, they will reject the Holy Ghost, and it is impossible to renew them to repentance, seeing they have rejected all three members of the Godhead.

        Therefore, we cannot commit the unpardonable sin today, as it relates exclusively to Israel’s program. Today, in the dispensation of grace, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit unto and until the rapture (Ephesians 1:13-14 and 4:30). Therefore, regardless of the sins we commit, we can never lose our salvation, because we are NOW justified by His blood (Romans 5:9) and we NOW have the atonement (Romans 5:11).

        “Sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14).

      • Barbara Thank you sooo much for loving and encouraging responce, you really painted a clear picture especially with how God continually forgave Israel for their spiritual adultery, and he’s unchanging so what makes it any different for me! I’d like to ask what do you mean by deny the internal witness of the Spirit? And I noticed what you said about enduring and that actually does make a lot of sense but what does the author of hebrews mean when he says we are not of those who shrink back to perdition is he referencing a believer and if so what constitutes drawing back to perdition?

        -Chase

        • If I may very briefly shed some light on your question from Hebrews 10:39 “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

          I know it is hard to believe because Christianity does not teach this, but the book of Hebrews is written to the Hebrews to encourage them as they go through the tribulation period. If you read it from that mindset, it will make sense.

          Hebrews 10:25 tells them not to forsake the assembling of themselves together “so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” “The day” is the day of Jesus’ second coming. Sinning wilfully, in the next verse, means denying the Lord. In Matthew 10:33, Jesus said, “Whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven.” This is in reference to those who take the mark of the beast or worship his image in the tribulation period. They have sealed their doom by committing the unpardonable sin. Therefore, they can only wait for the day of Jesus’ coming, except, because they have taken the mark, they are now waiting for “judgment and fiery indignation” (Hebrews 10:27). Trodding the Son of God under foot, in Hebrews 10:29, is again referring to siding with the Antichrist. Then, verse 30, the Lord will judge them for doing this.

          The former days of Hebrews 10:32-35 refers to Israel believing the gospel before the Antichrist began the “Great Tribulation” of the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period. The author of Hebrews is encouraging them not to deny Christ just because the Antichrist threatens to kill them if they do not deny Christ.

          Hebrews 10:36 They need patience to continue to endure the trials of the tribulation period until Jesus’ second coming.

          Hebrews 10:37 “He that shall come” would be Jesus’ second coming. He does not tarry, because He executes swift judgment upon those following the Antichrist.

          Hebrews 10:38 Any man drawing back would refer to drawing back from following Christ and following Anti-christ instead.

          Hebrews 10:39 Drawing back unto perdition refers to going to the Antichrist. Note that II Thessalonians 2:3 calls the Antichrist “the son of perdition.” Therefore, those drawing back to perdition would be believers who, under the pressure of the Anti-christ and apostate Israel in the tribulation period, decide to deny Christ and take the mark of the beast. But, the writer of Hebrews says that his audience will not do that because they will continue to live by faith (Hebrews 10:38). Therefore, they believe “to the saving of the soul,” meaning that their souls will be saved and enter God’s eternal kingdom because they did not take the mark of the beast.

          So, the short answer to your question is that drawing back to perdition applies to when the son of perdition, the Antichrist, is on the earth. Thus, you cannot do this today.

          See how all of these verses make sense when you realize the context is Israel, and not us today? And, if you try to apply it to us today, you will find it contradicts passages about our now having the atonement (Romans 5:11) and being sealed with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14).

        • Chase~

          You are very welcome! You know, God has given believers such a mighty witness in His written Word, and I know that as you press in to Him, He will reveal the truth to you (Jn. 16:13). He has no desire to leave us in the darkness and tells us, “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him” (Ja. 1:5). I know that because you are seeking the truth, you will find it (Matt. 7:7).

          Your first question is about what it means to “deny the internal witness of the Spirit.” One of the many reasons that the new covenant is the better covenant (Heb. 8:6) is that believers have been given a greater witness of the Holy Spirit than those believers in the OT. Although the Holy Spirit was very much active in the lives of God’s people in the OT and rested upon specific people at specific times to accomplish the Father’s will, He was not available in the same, personal capacity that is evident in the NT. In John 14:16-17, Jesus says, “And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever– the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells WITH you and will be IN you” (caps mine). In other words, rather than just working externally in the lives of God’s covenant people, merely being “with” them, He is now “in” them. Just part of what this means is that believers are not only personally taught by the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:13), there is even greater accountability to God and to His eternal moral law, that it is not enough to just abstain from physically committing an act of sin; we’re not even supposed to desire to sin, to entertain it in our hearts. Just one example of this can be seen from the Sermon on the Mount in which Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matt. 5:27-28). In the OT, then, God’s people were only accountable for committing physical adultery with another person, but with the indwelling Holy Spirit, believers in the NT are now also accountable for committing adultery in their hearts because the Holy Spirit, if we do not “quench” Him (I Th. 5:19), is able to not only to convict us of sin but to enable us to walk holy before our God (Lev. 11:45). It is this foundation by which we can understand what it means to “deny the internal witness of the Spirit” and why this is the unpardonable sin.

          To begin, if you read the two places in which Jesus discusses the unpardonable sin (Matt. 12:22-32, Mk. 3:22-30), you will note that He specifically ties this sin to the acts of denying the physical witness (truth) of the Holy Spirit, evidenced by the fact that His warning and teaching was given as a direct result of the Pharisees and scribes attributing His works to Beelzebub, prince of the devils. Put into context, because the indwelling Spirit had not been given to believers at that point in time, God’s people were only accountable for the physical witness they had received, and because their hearts were so far from God, they not only denied the very witness of truth, they credited it to Satan, revealing that, despite the fact that they were called God’s chosen people, their behavior illustrated that they were following a different god; therefore, their house could not stand. Taking this into the new covenant, it is no longer the denial of the physical witness that results in loss of salvation; it is, as I wrote in the first post, the denial of the spiritual witness that is given to each person who is born again, a witness that testifies to the very truth of God and to one’s relationship with Him (Rom. 8:16), and to deny that witness is to call the Holy Spirit “a liar” (Jn. 15:26), and in so doing, dividing one’s spiritual house between the truth of God and the lie of Satan, a house that can no longer stand. This truth can be further understood by reading two passages out of I John:

          ~“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son” (2:22).
          ~“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world” (I Jn. 4:3).

          Now, if an unsaved person is considered by God to be antichrist or have the spirit of the antichrist, then how much more so is the person who did confess that “Jesus is the Christ” who has “come in the flesh” and then denies it?

          Your second question is about whether the author of Hebrews is “referencing a believer” and “what constitutes drawing back to perdition.”

          I’m going to give you a two-fold answer because Eric, as I’m sure you have read, believes that the book of Hebrews was written for the Hebrews in the future rather than to all believers from the time it was written although he does believe that Gentiles can learn something from it. First, the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews and is for all believers. We are clearly told, “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned” (I Cor. 2:14). We are also told exactly to whom Scripture was given: “ALL scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That THE MAN OF GOD may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works” (II Tim. 3:16). In just these two verses, we know that everything in God’s Word, from Genesis to Revelation, was given to all believers and only to believers and that nonbelievers cannot even understand it, so, obviously, God wouldn’t have given it to them.

          As to what “constitutes drawing back to perdition” and as to whether the writer is referring to believers as ones who cannot be drawn “back into perdition,” Hebrews 10:38-39 says, “Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” As you know, to determine the truth of God’s Word, there are many things to consider, three of which are that we are to read the verse in its plainest meaning first; we are to read it in its immediate context, and we are to read it in its larger context, reconciling all relevant verses. I assume you are asking whether this verse is saying that believers cannot lose their salvation. At first glace, it might appear, in verse 39, that the author is saying that there is one all-inclusive group (“we”), who would be believers and of whom it is plainly saying that they “are not of them who draw back unto perdition” and another all-inclusive group, who, because they are not part of the believers (“we”) will “draw back unto perdition.” Read without benefit of verse 38, the chapter, and the whole council of God, it could possibly concluded that believers cannot lose their salvation, but we are blessed in that God gave hundreds, if not thousands, of scriptural witnesses for each doctrine so that our understanding would be correct because we know that whatever one verse says or doesn’t say, it will never contradict another verse.

          Going to verse 38, first, we are told that those who have been justified (saved) will walk by faith; however, “IF” (caps mine) a person “draw[s] back,” we are told that God will have “no pleasure in him,” so if verse 39 is really saying that believers cannot lose their salvation, then why is God even posing this as a possibility, including telling us how He views it, that “[His] soul shall have no pleasure in him”? Believers have enough on their plates without having to study hypothetical scenarios. Secondly, if read in context, the writer isn’t saying that there won’t be any believers who won’t “draw back unto perdition.” He’s saying that those believers who “live by faith” (v. 38) and who “believe to the saving of the soul” (v. 39) as evidenced by their possessing certain spiritual attitudes and engaging in certain spiritual behaviors (Heb. 10:22-25) won’t “draw back in perdition,” which is, according to Thayer’s, “the destruction which consists in the loss of eternal life, eternal misery, perdition, the lot of those excluded from the kingdom of God.” In addition, if believers cannot lose their salvation, then the writer of Hebrews was very much mistaken when he included verses 26-27, which very clearly tell us the consequences of believers not keeping their spiritual houses in order, illustrating that they can revert to their former, unsaved status and reap the eternal reward of that group. As we read in the greater context of God’s whole council, “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire” (II Pet. 2:20-22).

          I hope I have answered your questions and that this brings you further peace that you have not committed the unpardonable sin. If I need to give any additional explanations or clarifications, please let me know, and, as always, if I am in error, I want to know.

          It is obvious by the honesty of your questions that you sincerely want the truth. I’m going to stand in agreement with you that we can know the exact truth of His Word because we are told, “For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” (Heb. 4:12).

          May God bless you richly in all spiritual things.
          Your sister in Christ~
          Barbara

          • By way of clarification, I do not believe the book of Hebrews is only for the Hebrews. I believe in II Timothy 3:16 that ALL scripture is profitable for us today. I just said that the book of Hebrews is written TO the Hebrews, but all scripture is FOR us to read and profit from. Just because Hebrews was not written TO us does not mean I throw it out. The Old Testament was not written to us, but I would be throwing out most of the Bible if I did not read it. I Corinthians 10:6 says that the stories of Israel in the Old Testament are “our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.”

            If you disagree with what I write, that is fine, but please note that I do believe that all scripture, from Genesis through Revelation, is FOR us today. It is just not all written TO us today.

          • Thank you Barbara from what I’ve read I don’t feel like I’ve done anything like that, but as far as your drawing back to perdition statement I’m still not entirely certain what that means because I drew back really far, I hope I’m not outside of Gods grace and i didn’t sin to far. If you could clarify exactly what you mean by that.

            Thank You
            -Chase

          • Eric~

            Today you wrote, “By way of clarification, I do not believe the book of Hebrews is only for the Hebrews…I just said that the book of Hebrews is written TO the Hebrews, but all scripture is FOR us to read and profit from.”

            ~On February 5, you wrote, “We need to understand what scripture is directly applicable to us today, and what scripture is there for our learning but not directly applicable today…I recognize that Hebrews was written to the Hebrews for the future and Romans is written to us today for the present.”

            ~On February 8, you wrote, “See how all of these [Hebrew] verses make sense when you realize the context is Israel, and not us today?”

            ~Today, you also wrote, “I do believe that all scripture, from Genesis through Revelation, is FOR us today. It is just not all written TO us today.”

            Taking all of your comments together, my comment that you believe “that the book of Hebrews was written for the Hebrews in the future rather than to all believers from the time it was written although (you do) believe that Gentiles can learn something from it” accurately reflects what you have written. Also, you cannot simultaneously say that “all scripture is FOR us to read and profit from,” as you did today, and then claim that Hebrews is “to the Hebrews for the future” and that Hebrews is “not [for] us today,” as you did in the other two posts, because “to read and profit from” them means that they are, indeed, for us “today.”

            Eric, although Hebrews was written “TO” the Hebrews, the fact that you are ignoring is that it was written to Hebrew Christians, encouraging them that they did, indeed, make the right decision to follow Christ and to persevere despite the persecutions they endured. The idea of Christ’s supremacy over what they had experienced is how the author explains how the new covenant is better than the old covenant under the law. He discusses Christ’s supremacy over prophets (Heb. 1:1-3), angels (1:4-2:18), Moses (3:1-19), Joshua (4:1-13), Aaron (4:14-7:18), and the ritual of Judaism (7:19-10:39). Try reading Hebrews from this perspective and see what conclusions you draw because, although Hebrews was written “TO” the Hebrews, it isn’t any less relevant to all believers today, or from the time of the early church, than the books that were written TO the Romans and TO the Corinthians and TO the Thessalonians, etc. The beauty, truth, and credibility of God’s Word is that it transcends the group or person writing it and the group or person it addresses. To make the distinctions that you do about the Hebrew people and the book of Hebrews don’t align with Colossians 3:11, which says, “Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.” In fact, the early church was comprised of mostly Hebrews, so it is not true, as you wrote on February 7 that God “set aside Israel for the time being.” This leaves non-believing Jews, but Hebrews could not have been written to them because we are clearly told, “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned” (I Cor. 2:14). This is in agreement with II Timothy 3:16b, which says that all Scripture was written for “the man of God” (II Tim. 3:16b). In either case, your perspective is proven incorrect; therefore, your conclusions will be wrong. I know you mean well and that you desire to know and teach God’s Word, but the Word is too exacting (Heb. 4:12) to allow for any vagueness in doctrine. That you have to pick apart Hebrews and James and Matthew to support your theology illustrates that you are proof texting and not allowing the whole council of God, rightly divided, to reveal the truth.

            You wrote that you had grown up in a legalistic church and that thoughts of going to hell were a part of your childhood. I am so sorry that you had to endure this torment; it must have been awful, and I’m glad that you are no longer a part of that group, but I am afraid that you have gone to the other extreme. Although Scripture doesn’t say that believers will lose their salvation by committing one or even many sins (Matt. 12:31, I Jn. 2:1), it very much supports the fact that believers can lose their salvation, either through apathy or rebellion, the former being the exact point of Hebrews 5:11-6:6. I don’t know where you are receiving your spiritual instruction, but you need to find a church body that doesn’t teach you to select books and portions of books to formulate doctrine, a very dangerous practice.

            I haven’t even finished the other post, which I do want to get to you. It might be a few days because I have other things that I need to do. Also, at some point in the future, I would like to discuss your and Donna Sharp’s theology on works/grace if you want.

            My prayer is that, as we each humble ourselves before God, that He will reveal the truth of His Word to our minds and hearts.

            Barbara

          • Hi Chase~

            I started on answering your post, but I’m not going to be able to finish it today. I’ll have it done by Monday.

            Be blessed and don’t lose heart~
            Barbara

          • Barbara,

            You are mixing the words “FOR” and “TO”. The book of Hebrews is written TO the Hebrews for the upcoming tribulation period. But, it is also FOR us today, as all scripture is profitable (II Timothy 3:16).

            The important thing to note is that all scripture is FOR us (for our learning), but not all of it is written TO us (for us to directly apply).

            Let me bring up one issue to demonstrate.

            Romans 3:28 says, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

            James 2:24 says, “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

            Both of these statements are true, because all of God’s word is true (John 17:17), but they cannot be true at the same time. By rightly dividing the word of truth, I recognize that during the tribulation period, James 2:24 is applicable and salvation is by faith plus works. I also recognize that today, salvation is by faith alone, according to Romans 3:28.

            How can you maintain that both are written to us today? Either you are saved by faith alone without works, as Paul says, or you are saved by faith plus works, as James says. It cannot be both at the same time.

            I know people say that James is saying that you must have works to demonstrate true faith, and that it is faith that saves you but works that demonstrate the saving faith. However, that is not what James 2:24 says. That verse says that a man is JUSTIFIED by works. Romans 3:28 says that man is JUSTIFIED by faith without works.

            You cannot explain how both are true at the same time without changing what the Word of God says. Only by recognizing that James is written to Israel in the tribulation period and Romans is written to us today can we understand both verses to be true without changing the truth of God into a lie.

            The issue here is maintaining the holiness of God’s Word.

            We could go on and on over various scriptures, so, let’s just focus on these two verses. Please explain how both are true at the same time, but you cannot change what the verses actually say.

          • Chase~

            I have prayed and read the Word and thought everything through that you have shared, and honestly, I really, REALLY don’t think you have committed the unpardonable sin and for several reasons. The first is that you are way too worried about it. If one were to commit this sin, he or she wouldn’t even care because the Holy Spirit would depart IMMEDIATELY; that’s how hard core this sin is, and obviously you care a great deal. (Don’t be so quick to dismiss your caring as a very solid witness that you are right with God). Secondly, we have a lot of incoming external and internal information that competes for our attention, which we have to sort through, and some of it is from the spiritual realm. This is why we are told, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try [test] the spirits whether they are of God” (I Jn. 4:1a). We need to discern the spiritual source of the information so that we know what course of action to take, and one way we know to test them is found in Romans 8:1, which says, “[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” In other words, if you are feeling condemnation (damnation, judgment, panic/terror, deep unsettling doom, heaviness), then that is coming from Satan because that’s not how the Holy Spirit works, so there are two things to consider here. The first is that you had said that you repented immediately. This means that not only were you still connected to the Holy Spirit, you were responsive to Him, and you did not “quench” Him (I Th. 5:19). He convicted you of your sin, and you repented, and we are told, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (I Jn. 1:19). In addition, the only reason that the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin is so we will repent and be forgiven by God. He certainly wouldn’t have wasted His time convicting you, which He obviously did if you repented, had there been no hope of being forgiven, would He? The second thing is that the condemnation that comes from Satan is designed to cause us to worry and to cause us to doubt that we have God’s forgiveness so that we take our focus off God and onto self, which sounds exactly like what you have done.

            You say that you “drew back really far” and that you hope that you are “not outside of God’s grace.” I don’t know what you actually did, but have you read the OT? ☺ I can’t imagine that you did anything worse than what God’s elect did back then:

            ~To ensure their financial security, they sacrificed their children to Molech (Jer. 7:31), in the most inhumane and heinous manner imaginable, placing them into the red arm-hot arms of a pagan metal statue. I can’t imagine how hard their hearts must have been to have been able to ignore the blood-curdling screams of their own flesh and blood for any reason, let alone for selfish gain.

            ~In addition to committing sexual immorality, and in addition to doing so as part of a spiritual ritual, their engaging in prostitution in the LORD’s temple (I Kings14:23-24), in the sacred building where He actually met with His people and received sacrifices for their sins, would have been one of the greatest affronts and acts of irreverence to a holy God of which I can think.

            ~Throughout the OT, we see God’s covenant people repeatedly doing evil in the sight of the LORD by erecting altars to Baal (Jdg. 2:13), meaning, of course, that they openly, willingly, and without any apparent tinge of guilt, worshipped false gods, offering them their praise and sacrifices even after they had witnessed God’s hand upon their lives in so many ways. That they also worshipped the LORD at the same time illustrates that, although they broke the very first and most important commandment, they never denied Who He was or the physical witness that they had been saved out of the world by His power. This is crucial in understanding what the unpardonable sin is, that God, knowing that we are but dust (Ps. 103:14) will even forgive the worship of false gods, no matter how vile or how sanitized they are. What He won’t forgive is the denial that He saved us because He gave the Holy Spirit as the indwelling spiritual witness of that salvation.

            You are concerned about being “outside of God’s grace,” but even after God’s people committed these acts of sin and blasphemy, didn’t He forgive them when they repented? Were they “outside of God’s grace”? We know that they weren’t, and when we sin, neither are we. As Matthew 12:31 says, we are forgiven of EVERY sin and EVERY blasphemy except denying the witness of the Holy Spirit. You need to rest in what God’s Word says and not in your own feelings or understanding (Prov. 3:5). God is so gracious. Knowing just how easily we sin (Heb. 12:1) and not desiring that any should perish (II Pet. 3:9), He wants to give us every advantage, and as we read in Romans 15:4, “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” God could just as easily have given us His law and a few instructions, but instead, He laid bare everything that His people did in order that we would learn and receive hope.

            While it is good that you realized that what you did was very wrong, you need to also realize that when God has said that He will forgive us when we sin and repent, He means it. You need to start walking in the freedom and forgiveness that He has graciously given you. Begin by asking for forgiveness for not receiving what He has given you and for anything else that He brings to your mind, which should be done daily by all believers anyway. Then you need to get into the Word, really get into it, and allow it to wash over you, to teach you, to convict you of sin, to edify you, to cleanse you, to arm you against the wiles and attacks of the enemy because we are not to give him place (Eph. 4:27). In addition, we are to protect our eye gates and our ear gates because Satan’s first line of offense is our minds. This is why we are told, “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ (II Cor. 10:5). If Satan can get our minds, then what is birthed there will make its way into our hearts and become rooted, and sooner or later, we will act upon whatever it is. The great news is that the same holds true for God’s Word. It’s just a matter of what we allow into our minds, and that includes the self-talk that we are not forgiven. I remember years ago reading the verse about taking all thoughts into captivity to the obedience of Jesus, and not only didn’t I think it was possible, I wasn’t even sure I wanted to, and I was even saved at the time. However, after I began getting real with the Lord, I began to study more, to pray in earnest, to repent, and to fast. Now, not only do I know that it is possible, I very much desire it because I have seen the difference in my spiritual and temporal life. I have personally seen the power and influence of God’s Word rather than just hearing about it from others, which I did for a long time, and it is time that you did, too, because God will never do a mighty work in you through me. The reason I am telling you this not because I don’t want to continue dialoguing with you; it is because we are going to test God’s Word in your life. I am going to hold you up in prayer that God’s Word will give you wisdom and discernment, that it will drive out the darkness and the lying thoughts, and that it will bring you peace and joy. That’s what I’m going to do. What you are going to do is to change your thinking and behavior:

            ~Make up your mind that you are not going to listen to the enemy of your soul anymore. It won’t be easy, especially at first, but it can be done.
            ~Immerse yourself in the Word of God, asking Him to reveal to you anything you need to repent of, asking Him to reveal to you His truth and things which you do not know.
            ~Find verses that deal directly with God’s power, with who you are in Him and His promises, and when you are under attack, say them out loud. The thoughts may not immediately go away, but they will eventually.
            ~Print verses and put them around your house so that you have visual reminders of God’s truth.
            ~Listen to Christian radio. I have a couple friends who have the radio on all day, filling their homes and ears with God’s Word.
            ~Ask the Lord to direct you to a Christian church if you are not already going to one. Ask Him to bring a godly man into your life to stand with you, pray with you, and mentor you. God did not expect us to go this alone.

            Chase, you are in a war for your soul. The only weapon the enemy has is to discourage you by hurling lies and accusations at you, hoping that, eventually, you will listen to him instead of God, and so far he has been able to do just that. However, my brother, those days are over. Joshua told the people that they needed to choose, that very day, whom they were going to serve (Josh. 24:15), and we all need to do that every single day. Put on the armor of God (Eph. 6:11-18) every day so that you can stand your ground. If you stumble, and we all do, pick yourself up and begin again. Remember, “Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU, THAN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD” (I Jn. 4:4, caps mine). I will also pray “That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God” (Eph. 3:16-19).

            I hope I have answered your concerns. May God bless you and keep you as you begin a new life of freedom and peace and hope in our Lord, the keeper of our souls.

            Your sister in Christ~
            Barbara

            P.S. I am on this site every day, so please let me know how you are and what has happened. I will continue to keep you in prayer and ask my church to pray for you also. Again, I am not trying to cut you off, so if you have another concern, let me know. I just believe it is time for God to witness to you.

          • Eric~

            I would love to continue the discussion on faith and works, but I cannot do it for a week or so. I will tell you this, though, every verse that you have cited is true for today and at the same time. That’s what reconciling Scripture means. That’s what II Timothy 3:16 means. If you read all of James 2 and not just verse 24, it becomes clear what the truth of the chapter is. I hope to continue this later because it is very important, but in the meantime, ask the Lord to open your eyes if your reasoning and conclusions are wrong (Jer. 33:3, James 1:5). I do it all the time because He has no desire to leave us in the dark. That’s why He gave us His Word.

            Barbara

          • Eric~

            A thought came to me that I would like to share. When the phrase “rightly dividing” is used in reference to Scripture (II Tim. 2:15), it has nothing to do with dividing at all. It means “to cut straight” (Vine’s) and to handle the word accurately. When you approach Scripture by saying that certain books and certain passages out of books are meant for a people at a different time, and there is absolutely nothing in the context that supports that idea, then you are actually dividing the Word into two Words, one for believers today and one for the Hebrews in the future, which corrupts the Word. In other words, you are pulling part of the Word out of the Word rather than aligning it with the information that has been given. Can you give any internal evidence to prove that the book of Hebrews or James 2:24 is for the future? Can you explain why the Hebrews in the future are going to be saved by works in addition to faith when the Hebrews in the past were just saved by faith? Also, I explained why God wouldn’t have included a book to the unsaved, so how would you address this problem?

            Barbara

          • Eric~

            Sorry. I phrased that incorrectly. I should have said, with what we are told in the book of James, can you explain why the Hebrews in the future are going to be saved by works in addition to faith when you believe that the Hebrews in the past were only saved by faith?

            Barbara

          • Barbara,

            All I am asking for is a simple explanation as to how Romans 3:28 and James 2:24 are true at the same time. Both verses are conclusions based upon the arguments given in the preceding verses. Therefore, they stand on their own. When James 2:24 says “by works a man is justified, and not by faith only,” it means that “by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” When Romans 3:28 says, “a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law,” it means that “a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” If God meant to say something different in one of those verses, He would have. He is God. He is not limited by language. He created language. All I am asking is how can two opposing ideas be true at the same time.

          • Eric~

            I would love to although, as I said, I can’t do it for a week or so. I am going to ask you, though, that during this time that you study the Word on this topic and pray, as I will also be doing, that we both ask the Lord to reveal His truth to us (Jn. 16:13, Ja. 1:5) and that whichever one of us is wrong will have his or her spiritual eyes opened, okay? The fact is that if we are not both truly willing to be taught and corrected by the Holy Spirit, then there is no need to do this, so if this is agreeable then I will have something posted in a week or so.

            Barbara

            P.S. This particular thread is getting too long, so I am going to submit my answer as a new post so that we don’t have to constantly scroll to find the correct ‘reply’ button.

          • Chase~

            I don’t know if you will even read this, but I came across a video that deals directly with letting things go, so I think it is something that will help you. It’s by Jentezen Franklin. I don’t know if you are familiar with him, but it is obvious from his sermons that he truly walks the talk. If you type in Jentezen Franklin sermons, you’ll find something about online videos. The one that I think will help you is “Holy Cow.” I’m still praying for you.

            Your sister in Christ~
            Barbara

  4. Dear Barbara, thank you for your responce on the unpardonable sin, I always wondered how shall I adres this question, thank you for the wonderfull way you answered Chase and Eric. I also love quoting Hebrews6:4-6, and 10:26. Because God is yesterday, today and forever the same, his word remains ever the same He never changes. We as man try to change God’s word after their own wil, words and ways, God must fit them, and not them that fit God. God bless. Maranatha.

    • Thank you, Ina. I appreciate your edifying words. It is a great truth that you speak about our words and ways fitting God and not the other way around. I pray that we, as believers, will all press into the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us into God’s one, eternal truth, and if I am ever in error, I ask that you bring it my attention.

      God bless you, my sister!
      Barbara

      • Amen! We should always change our thinking to align with what the Word of God says, rather than changing the Word of God to align to our own thinking. As such, I hope you consider my comments on what the Word of God says the unpardonable sin is.

        • Eric~

          I haven’t had time to read your most recent post. I have been working on the last one. I will try and combine them. I can’t promise that I will have it done by today, though. I will try for tomorrow.

          Barbara

          • Eric~

            Sorry, but I won’t able to get my response done until probably tomorrow or maybe even Sunday. I have a few comments on your newer post in addition to what I was already writing on the first one, and with things that I am involved in right now, I’m not able to finish. Thanks for your patience.

            Barbara

          • Thanks for the update, Barbara. I know what you mean, as I spent most of today working on tomorrow’s sermon. God’s work is never done.

        • Eric, I read your comment on unpardonable sin and it became very clear that “Grace is not Grace any other way”, so be it ! 🙂

          With a true repentant Heart, Acceptance of Christ as our Savior as the Son of GOD, and the Love For GOD we are free for the curse forever… AMEN, HALLELUJAH !!!

          BE BLESSED

          • Romans 11:6 “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

      • Barbara I just watched the video on Holy Cow it was really good and deffinitley encouraging I’m still seeking and praying for assurance, I’m determined 🙂 and I think I know what Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about I dont think it’s speaking of an unforgivable sin I think it’s actually talking about the impossibility for the author and others to renew those who had fallen back into temple sacrifice to a relationship with God through Christ sense repentence means to change one’s mind. And after reading 5-7 and actually the whole letter of Hebrews it really makes sense. Basically those Jewish people who went back to the levitical temple sacrifices after being enlightened, seeing the power of Holy Spirit, seeing how the Old testement Scripture actually points to Christ one lamb per family, one lamb per nation, and finally the perfect lamb for the world ect. further proving he’s the messiah, Hearing the message of Gospel and yet still return there’s nothing the author or anyone else can do to get them to change their mind about Christ. But the passage does not say it’s impossible for them to repent or even to be forgiven. And whether there actually saved or not I’m not really sure if they are but can someone really be saved i.e. fully trust the one and only perfect sacrifice of the lamb of God offered up for all sins and yet still trust in the blood of bulls and goats to wash away sins? I dont really think so. And thank you again for continuing to lift me up in prayer I greatly appreciate it 🙂
        God bless you.

        • If we apply the same logic to people today, then Christians commit the unpardonable sin all the time. All of us, at least to some extent, go back to the world and its system after being saved. As I mentioned, the answer is in rightly dividing the Word of truth, showing that Hebrews (and Matthew 12 for that matter) are not written to us today.

        • Chase~

          I’m glad that the video was beneficial to you, and I am standing in agreement with you that you will receive the total assurance of your salvation that is witnessed to each of us through the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:13). God tells us that if we ask, seek, and knock (Matt. 7:7) that we will receive, so I know that your study and prayer and seeking the truth of God’s Word will reap a spiritual witness within your spirit, one that is testified to us in Proverbs 2:1-6.

          You are right about Hebrews 6:4-6 not being about the unpardonable sin; however, it does speak of losing salvation. What is written to the Hebrews, which you discuss, is also written for us today. If you begin your reading back in Hebrews 5:11, you will see a train of thought that, if read in its plainest sense, illustrates that the danger of not progressing beyond the milk of the Word to the meat of the Word, if left unchecked (continued apathy), will result in the loss of salvation. You wrote that you weren’t sure “whether [they’re] actually saved or not.” Scripture tells us that they were. In the first place, God didn’t write His Word for nonbelievers but for the “man of God” (II Tim. 3:16-17). This means that God’s Word is meant to be rightly divided (II Tim. 2:15) and not dissected, cutting apart God’s Word into books and portions of books meant for another people at another time as Eric believes. Be mindful that when God is taking about a specific people and time, He clarifies it so that there won’t be any confusion, the sealing of the twelve tribes of Israel in Revelation 7, for example. Secondly, we know that the warning given in Hebrews 6:1-6 is for believers because God wouldn’t be telling nonbelievers that they need to grow beyond the foundational truths of the faith in verses 1-2, given the facts that they aren’t even in the truth. He wouldn’t be warning nonbelievers that they are in danger of the consequences cited in verse 6. He wouldn’t be using the action of “[renewing] them AGAIN unto repentance” (caps mine) in reference to nonbelievers because if they haven’t been brought to a saving repentance a first time. Finally, if you go back to Hebrews 5:12b, the writers of Hebrews wouldn’t be telling nonbelievers that they “ought to be teachers” of the Word, would he?

          I have a couple of comments on what you wrote about “Hearing the message of Gospel and yet still return there’s nothing the author or anyone else can do to get them to change their mind about Christ.” First, as I wrote above, we know from the context that they are believers. Secondly, and this is crucial to understanding why this is loss of salvation, it wasn’t that they merely “[Heard] the message of [the] Gospel” because a lot of people hear the gospel and don’t respond affirmatively at first, and they are not subject to the consequences given. Verses 4 and 5 tell us that these people “were once enlightened,” had “tasted of the heavenly gift,” “were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,” and “have tasted the good word of God” and “the powers of the world to come.” These are hardly descriptors of nonbelievers but of people who have been born again by the power of God. The word “if” in verse 6 is not a conditional word or a word of uncertainty but is the Greek word “kai” (Strong’s G2532), and it means “and” as in “[and] they fall away.” The phrase “fall away” (parapito, Strong’s G3895) means “to fall away from the worship of Jehovah…from Christianity” (Thayer’s), from “the true faith” (Strong’s). Given what verse 6 tells us, in light of the context, we can rightly conclude that this is loss of salvation. You know, although I have read and studied this passage scores of times, there is something about verse 6 that I didn’t quite piece together because it seemed outside the two examples of the unpardonable sin that I have found, attributing the works of God to Satan, as Jesus taught, and denying the indwelling Holy Spirit that God gave us as a personal witness. Verses 1-2 discuss not growing beyond the fundamentals and onto maturity with the result that one will lose his/her salvation. Now, we all stray from time to time, increasingly less being the goal, of course, and we all have doubts and don’t pursue God as we should, less also being the goal, and these are absolutely not to be considered the unpardonable sin, yet we are very clearly told, “For [it is] impossible… to renew them again to repentance” (6:4a and 6:6b), and I am wondering if this might, because of the finality of the consequence, also be another example of the unpardonable sin. There would, of course, have to be something evident beyond the temporary apathy we all display, or no one would be saved. I think that it is putting across the point that CONTINUED apathy in not growing to perfection can lead to committing the unpardonable sin of leaving the truth, which is implied by the phrase “if they fall away” in verse 6. In any case, what is clear is that one can lose his or her salvation, whether a Jewish Christian or a Gentile Christian.

          I hope I have answered the concerns you brought up. I will continue to pray, knowing that God’s truth permeates through the darkness as we seek Him.

          God bless you~
          Barbara

          • Barbara Thank You again for the prayers and I love all the encouragement you continue to bring me, and ya maybe they are believers or maybe not and as far as them being teacher ya if your in church long enough you should be teaching others as well what pastor wouldnt say that, I’ve heard plenty of pastors say somthing like that “hey you’ve been attending our small group for so long why not go ahead and teach some of the new members some basic principles of the bible… I can see your point with (II Tim. 3:16-17) but the letters were written to churches to be read in-front of the whole congregation to be heard by both believers and non believers just like in our churches today. And since only God can know the heart not man than for the author to say he knew who is saved or not would be inaccurate. Even Paul could not tell who was saved (1st Corinthians 13:5) He sent the letter to the Corinthians telling them they were acting very carnal and ask them to test themselves don’t they realize Christ is in them…… unless they fail the test or maybe their acting like that is because their really not saved and this would make sense according to 1st John he who is born of God does not sin. So as far as Hebrews goes I’m not really sure of the salvation of those it was written to, and that’s really not a concern anymore but I am feeling less condemned and I am still trying to figure out a couple other passages such The spirit bearing witness with us and Christ manifesting to those who obey him ect. I’m Pursuing Christ and hoping in his goodness to grant me full assurance of hope.

            -Chase

          • Hi Chase~

            Well, I’m glad that you are “feeling less condemned” because that means the Holy Spirit has answered our prayers and is leading you into the truth, that the light is driving out the darkness.

            One more thought on who’s being addressed in Hebrews 6:1-6: Clearly, the passage says salvation can be lost, but because nonbelievers cannot lose salvation (A person cannot lose something he/she never had), it must be referring to believers.

            One question: You wrote that Paul couldn’t tell who was saved, and you cited I Corinthians 13:5, but I think you cited the wrong verse because this one is addressing another topic. Could you find the one you meant? Thanks.

            God bless you in all spiritual things~
            Barbara

          • Barbara,

            So you discern the Holy Spirit’s work based on feelings? How do you know if your feelings are right?

          • Eric~

            Well, I could have told Chase that I am glad that he is “thinking” less condemned, but that wasn’t the word he used, it sounds a little silly, and it doesn’t truly take into account what he was expressing. It is truly heartbreaking to see a follower of Christ take so many unfounded liberties, not only with the Word of God, which is the most important, but with another person’s writings. This isn’t the first time that you have twisted my words to mean something other than what I meant, and this is not how we are to engage in any dialogue, let alone one about God’s holy Word.

            I’ve been on this blog for quite awhile, and while it is true that not everyone agrees with how I interpret Scripture (some of them vehemently), I don’t think any of them would accuse me of what you have, that I have used something as untrustworthy as feelings, only, to support my interpretation of Scripture. Having said that, however, there is a place for feelings in our total understanding of the Holy Spirit’s work in us and that is when our feelings are aligned with the Word of God, which IS what Chase was expressing. It is the peace we receive from the Holy Spirit when what we know in our minds harmonizes with what we feel in our hearts. A person (in this case, Chase) can intellectually know the truth of Romans 1:1, which says, “[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit,” but it is quite another thing for that person to have the peace of God in one’s life concerning it. This is what Paul was expressing when he said, “And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your HEARTS AND MINDS through Christ Jesus” (Phl. 4:7, caps mine). In other words, the “Holy Spirit’s work” is very much to be understood in both the mind and the heart, and in Chase’s experience, his studying the intellectual aspect of God’s Word and allowing the truth to penetrate his heart is bringing about God’s peace in his situation, changing his feelings from despair and condemnation into feelings of hope and freedom, the exact peace that Christ promised when He said, “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your HEART be troubled, neither let IT be afraid” (Jn. 14:27, caps mine).

            So, to answer the first part of your question about whether I “discern the Holy Spirit’s work based on feelings,” my answer is yes and no; yes, they are included, and no, it is not limited to them because the whole counsel of God tells us that both mind (intellect) and heart (feelings) are to be included in our understanding of the Holy Spirit’s work. To answer the second part of your question, I know my feelings are right when they align with the Word of God. When Chase says that he is “feeling less condemned,” knowing that he has been studying the Word of God and praying for wisdom, we can rightfully understand his comment to mean that the Holy Spirit has used both his intellect and his heart to bring about the promised peace. Maybe he isn’t all the way there, yet, but considering that whatever he did, it was bad enough to have him consider that he might have committed the unpardonable sin, it may take awhile for the enemy to be fully put in his place and for Christ to be fully put in His.

            I hope this has helped.

            Barbara

          • lol I forgot to put the 2 infront of Corinthians it is 2nd Corinthians 13:5, and I can see what your saying you cant lose something you dont have but that’s throwing me off because Paul says that He who began a good work in you will finish it, I think salvation is a good work within someone and if God really did start a good work and to say that man can alter that wouldnt that be like saying man is able to prevent God from finishing his work even though scripture clearly teaches that no one can resist Gods will Romans 9:19.

          • Chase~

            Thanks for giving me the verse. I’ll address that and your other concern, but I won’t be able to get it to you until tomorrow.

            Have a blessed Sabbath~
            Barbara

  5. Eric~

    I thought that I would be able to get my response written and posted by today, but I wasn’t. There is something that I have been involved in which will continue for another week, and it doesn’t allow for the time and focus necessary to treat this topic with the seriousness it demands so that a thorough answer will result. Because I am sure that you want more than just a short, casual explanation, I’m trusting that you will understand and come back. I do appreciate your patience.

    Barbara

    • Hi Barbara,

      Thanks for getting back to me. I don’t see how a long explanation is necessary. I’m not really looking for a debate on faith vs. faith plus works. I’m just asking for an explanation as to how both Romans 3:28 and James 2:24 can be true at the same time. Of course, if you are busy, I understand and will come back in one week to look for your answer. Thanks!

      • Eric I think that we are saved by grace alone and that if we really are saved where going to manifest good works Ephesians 2:10 so if someone who professes Christ is not manifesting any type of good works or bearing any fruit then theres serious reason to question wheather that person is really saved or not… Just my thoughts.

        -Chase

        • But, that’s not what Romans 3:28 says. That verse says salvation is by faith alone without the deeds of the law. Romans 5:9,11 say that we now have justification and we now have the atonement. I Corinthians 5 is clear that the man having sex with his step-mom is still saved. Works have nothing to do with salvation.

    • Hi Barbara,

      Have you had a chance to respond to my question of how can both Romans 3:28 and James 2:24 be true today at the same time?

  6. Eric~

    I am SO sorry that it has taken me so long to get this done. I had things to and then I got sidetracked by some other posts, which I shouldn’t have done.

    Here are some primary verses about works and grace through which we can find the truth of God’s Word:

    “And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work” (Rom. 11:6).

    “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2:16).

    “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness” (Gal. 3:6).

    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:8-10).

    “What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?… Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone…. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?… Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (Jas. 2:14, 17, 20-22, 24-26).

    Before I begin, there has to be the agreement that all of these verses are to be reconciled, that they are rightly divided and not dissected; otherwise, we are just spinning our wheels. I will give my reasoning as to why the verses in James 2 are not speaking of the Jews at a later date at the end.

    As I looked up the word “works” in each of these verses, I came across something that I didn’t know. According to Strong’s, the word is “ergon” (G2041) and Thayer’s says, “In Paul’s [writings]…works [are those that are] demanded by and agreeing with the law.” Before I list those works, I have to apologize and ask forgiveness to anyone who is reading this because I did not rightly divide the Word. I interpreted works in Paul’s verses as human works, good-deeds that one might offer God to gain admittance into heaven, and while it is true that these works will not save us either, these are not the works to which Paul is referring, so I am very sorry for the incorrect teaching. With regard to the works, the writer of Hebrews tells us that they are “Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin…which are offered by the law” (Heb. 10:8b), and Paul includes circumcision (Gal. 5:1-4). It seems like Paul also made a list like the one in Hebrews, but I can’t find it. The distinction that Paul is making between works and grace in Romans 11:6, then, is that if one insists that salvation comes by the works of the law, then salvation can no longer be of grace.

    This leaves us with the works that James discusses. It is the same Greek word “ergon,” but it has a different meaning. According to Thayer’s, work in this context (vv. 14, 17, 20-22, 24-26) “is applied to the conduct of men, measured by the standard of religion and righteousness,” what is referred to back in James 1:27 as ““Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world” (Jas.1:27). While Paul clearly teaches that the works of the law will not save anyone, James very much teaches that works very much accompany one’s confession of faith, that “works was faith made perfect.” It is these works which Paul refers to in Ephesians 2:10, the works “which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them, “ meaning “every good work springing from piety” (Thayer’s). James 2 that says that works are the evidence of salvation and that those who don’t do the works that follow salvation, although initially experiencing a true, born-again experience (having righteousness imputed to them), will not inherit the kingdom. I think part of the problem arises from the misunderstanding about the relationship between salvation and subsequent works as taught in James 2:14-26, specifically verse 17 which says, “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” Some believers interpret this verse to mean that if works aren’t forthcoming, then that person was never saved to begin with, but that is not what this passage is saying. The word “dead” in verse 17 doesn’t mean that a saving faith never existed; it is a metaphor that means “destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative” (nekros, Strong’s G3498). In other words, it is lacking advantage or profit and, although useless, it still exists, and that is the point being put forth in verses 21-24. Using Abraham as the example, James explains that it was faith (alone) by which righteousness was “imputed unto him” (v. 23b) by God but that Abraham was also “justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar” (v. 21b). Verses 22 and 24 scripturally prove that both exist independently of each other but that both are needed for one’s final salvation. This is why I believe that in the parable of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-44), the goats are believers, and there are several reasons for this, and if you are interested, I would be happy to post them.

    To rid the Bible of teaching that works in addition to faith, as taught in James, are necessary for salvation for believers, you believe that this is for the Jews at some time in the future, but there are at least three problems with that theory. The first is that there is absolutely nothing in this context or any context to suggest that. It is something that has to be added to the written Word. Secondly, this poses a problem as to why God’s people since the time of Christ are, according to you, saved by faith alone, but God’s people in the future, according to you, are to be saved by faith and works. Why would God have two different standards? I brought this to your attention, but you didn’t address it. Thirdly, the fact that James used Abraham as the example of one who was saved by faith and works, illustrates that is for all believers since the time of Christ because Abraham is “the father of us all” (Rom. 4:16b). Yes, he was the physical father of the nation of Israel, but as the father of spiritual Israel, which we are (Gal. 3:26-29), he is our example, one who perfected his faith through works as taught in James 2:20-26. That the introduction of James’ letter addresses Jewish believers in that day illustrates that what is being taught in chapter 2 is applicable to us today and not Jews in the future.

    I hope I have explained it clearly. Sadly, the body of Christ has not taught a correct understanding between faith and works, and it has hurt not only the individual believer but also the cause of Christ on Earth.

    Have a blessed day~
    Barbara

    • Eric~

      The Paul verse I couldn’t find is Galatians 2:16, which says, “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” I thought it listed the works, and it doesn’t, but it does refer to the “works of the law.”

      Barbara

      • Eric~

        The Thayer’s entry doesn’t mean that every time Paul uses the words “work” or “works” that they are referring to works of the law. It means that every time he uses these words in reference to what we are not saved by, it is works of the law.

        Barbara

    • Hi Barbara,
      You’ve transposed Romans 11:6. It should say “it is” not “is it”.

      Thanks for the post.
      God bless you!
      🙂

      • Tess~

        While I appreciate your attentiveness, I did not transpose it. That is exactly what the KJV says although, I will admit, the wording is awkward. What is important, however, as I’m sure you’ll agree, is that it doesn’t change the meaning.

        Have a blessed day~
        Barbara

    • Hi Barbara,

      I appreciate your getting back to me on this. However, we must let the Bible be our final authority, rather than what a commentator (Thayer, in this case) or what a Greek definition may or may not be. The KJV translators translated the Bible into English and know A WHOLE LOT MORE about Greek as a group than any one person in the world today. Therefore, we need to trust their translation, rather than trying to come up with a Greek definition that says what we want it to say.

      Unfortunately, you still have not answered the question I asked. It is a simple question. How can both Romans 3:28 and James 2:24 be true at the same time? Romans 3:28 says that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. James 2:24 says that “by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

      You say that “Paul clearly teaches that the works of the law will not save anyone,” but then you also say that James says that “works in addition to faith, as taught in James, are necessary for salvation for believers.” These statements are true. No works are needed for salvation, according to Paul, and works, in addition to faith, are necessary for salvation, according to James. Since these contradict each other, as you mentioned with the Romans 11:6 passage, they cannot be true at the same time.

      You had asked for proof that James is talking to Israel in the future. James was written before Acts 7 was completed, and so he was talking to Israel at that time to prepare them to go through the tribulation period. However, with the stoning of Stephen, Israel’s dispensation was set aside, the tribulation period was put on hold, and the grace dispensation began with Paul in Acts 9. Thus, the instructions in James were also put on hold for the Jewish believers to get them through the tribulation period which will occur after the rapture.

      Here are some verses from James which show us this: James 1:1 “to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.” These would be the 12 tribes of Israel, and they were scattered among the heathen as God’s punishment for not obeying the law covenant, as promised in Leviticus 26:33.

      James 1:2 falling into divers temptations happens during the tribulation period

      James 1:3-4 The trying of their faith is done through the purifying, refiner’s fire of the tribulation period, as mentioned in Malachi 3:2-3.

      James 1:5 If they lack wisdom to get through the tribulation period without aligning themselves with the Antichrist, they need to look to God’s Word. Wisdom for the tribulation period is what the book of Proverbs is all about.

      James 1:6 Wavering in faith will cause them to think the Antichrist is the true Christ. They must never waver in faith and continue to trust in God’s Word, regardless of what man may tell them.

      James 1:10 The rich believer will be made low in the tribulation period, because he will not take the mark of the beast. Therefore, he will not be able to buy or sell during the tribulation period, making his goods worthless, which is why Jesus commanded Israel to “sell that ye have” (Luke 12:33), which is what we see the saints doing in early Acts (Acts 2:44-45 and 4:34-37).

      James 1:12 Enduring temptation mentioned again, because they are going through the tribulation period. The only other time the term “crown of life” is mentioned in scripture is in Revelation 2:10, in connection with tribulation saints enduring unto the end.

      James 1:13-15 Since it is God’s wrath in the tribulation period, some may use the excuse that they have to sin because God is tempting them. James points out that temptation comes from your flesh, not from God.

      James 1:20 The Antichrist will say that he represents God and is killing those who are not aligning with God. James warns the tribulation saints that the Antichrist does not speak for God.

      James 1:26 The religious leaders of Israel will align themselves with the Antichrist, teaching the Antichrist’s one world religion. James warns Israel not to follow these apostate leaders.

      James 1:27 Many of Israel will follow those religious leaders, causing a division in the family. Matthew 10:34-39 warns that “a man’s foes shall be they of his own household,” and fathers and sons and daughters and mothers will be at variance with each other. Thus, there will be fatherless and widows, as the faithful believers of Israel follow God’s Word, rather than the Antichrist and the apostate leaders of Israel. To keep unspotted from the world during this time, James advices helping out the fatherless and widows. That is what Jesus is getting at, in reference to the Gentiles, in Matthew 25:31-46.

      James 2:1-4 Those aligning with the Antichrist will be rewarded by him economically. Therefore, they will be the rich of the tribulation period, while the saints will be poor because they will not take the mark of the beast. James warns against following these rich folks. Israel needs to compare what they are saying with the word of God, rather than following someone because he is wealthy.

      James 2:5 The poor will inherit the kingdom. We are told this by the Lord Himself in Matthew 5:3. They are poor because they cannot buy or sell because they have not taken the mark of the beast.

      James 2:6 Rich men draw the tribulation saints before judgment seats because they have the power since they have aligned themselves with the Antichrist, and they will bring them to judgment for not taking the mark of the beast.

      James 2:7 The rich, apostate leaders of Israel blaspheme the Lord by their worship of the Antichrist.

      James 2:10-11 The apostate leaders of Israel will try to convince Israel that they are obeying God’s law, and that Israel is not obeying God’s law covenant with them if they do not do what they false leaders say they should do. James brings out the point that, even though apostate Israel does not commit adultery, since the Antichrist does not have “the desire of women” (Daniel 11:37), they are breaking the law by killing the believers of Israel, since they have no basis under the law for killing them. Therefore, the apostate leaders of Israel are not the goody- two shoes that they claim to be and should not be followed, as they are transgressors of the whole law.

      James 2:13 Because the apostate leaders of Israel showed no mercy to the believers of Israel, since they killed them, God will show no mercy to them, but will devour them with fire at His second coming.

      James 2:14 The works of apostate Israel will show them to be unbelievers, because their works transgress the law. Therefore, why should Israel follow them? Just because they have money and power? Those things are of no consequence.

      James 2:15 Believing Israel will not have possessions in the tribulation period because they have not taken the mark of the beast, and so they cannot buy or sell (Revelation 13:17). In this case, if a believer does have food and can help out a fellow believer, they are to do so, even if it means fasting themselves. That is what Isaiah 58:6-7 says. Fasting will help them spiritually, as Jesus says in Matthew 17:21 that the kind of demon the disciples were trying to cast out does not go out “but by prayer and fasting.” That demon they tried to cast out is a picture of the religious system of Israel, showing that the only way to overcome in the tribulation period is to value spiritual things above physical things to the point of going hungry. Matthew 9:15 says they will fast during the tribulation period. They may even fast to the point of being sick, but God promises to heal those saints in that circumstance (James 5:14-15).

      James 2:17 The tribulation saints must endure unto the end of the tribulation period in order to be saved (Matthew 10:22). If they take the mark of the beast, they will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 14:9-11). Thus, without the works of valuing the spiritual above the physical, Israel will end up taking the mark, rather than going hungry, and their faith is dead, not being accompanied by works to support that faith.

      James 2:18 Apostate Israel will claim that they are doing God’s work and obeying the law, as James pointed out in James 2:10-13. The little flock’s response to this will be that they have faith in God’s Word above what man says. Apostate Israel will then say to the little flock, “Thou hast faith, and I have works.” In other words, the argument will be that the leaders are in a better position than believing Israel, because they have the works to prove they are following God. Believing Israel’s response to this will be, “Shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” In other words, believing Israel says, “your works are of Satan. So, instead of showing me your works, show me your faith in God’s Word above what man says. Meanwhile, I, as a believing Jew, show you that I have faith in God’s Word by my works of going hungry, helping the poor, and not selling my soul by taking the mark of the beast.” The point is that apostate Israel’s works show that they do not have faith in God, while the works of the believing Jew are a testament to their faith in God, regardless of what man says to them.

      James 2:19 Apostate Israel will claim that they are doing everything in the name of God. We see this in Matthew 7:21-23 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Note how they are relying upon their works. However, just believing that there is a God will not save apostate Israel. They must have faith in God’s plan and obey His law covenant with them and be water baptized in order to be saved (see Acts 2:38). Believing in God is not enough, even the devils believe and tremble at God’s name, but they will be in the lake of fire for all eternity. Therefore, apostate Israel’s argument, that they should enter God’s kingdom because they believe in God, does not fly.

      James 2:20-22 So, apostate Israel must have faith, in addition to works, to be saved. Now, in these verses, we look at the opposite. Apostate Israel has works but not faith. Faith alone, though, is not enough to enter God’s eternal kingdom on earth. The believing remnant of Israel must have works to go along with their faith in order to be saved. Abraham, the father of Israel, had to be “justified by works,” in order to maintain his salvation, when he offered Isaac as a sacrifice upon the altar in Genesis 22:9. It was by his works that his faith was made perfect. Without works, his faith would have been dead, being alone (James 2:17).

      James 2:23 As far as God’s plan to reconcile the earth back to Himself through Israel is concerned, faith alone was not enough to save him. In order to fulfill the scripture of his faith in God, he had to have the work to go with it. Hebrews 11:6 says that “without faith it is impossible to please [God].” It is Abraham’s faith that saved him, but, in God’s program to reconcile the earth through the nation of Israel, faith is made perfect by works, and works, along with faith, justifies a person, as James 2:24 says. Hebrews 11:17 says that “by faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac.” Thus, in Israel’s dispensation, faith alone is not enough. Works are involved as well, but there must be the faith motivation behind the works in order for the works to justify the person. Contrast this with apostate Israel in the tribulation period, who will say they have works, but their lack of faith in God’s plan for Israel will keep them from entering God’s eternal kingdom on earth at the end of the tribulation period (James 2:18). What is interesting is this same verse (Genesis 15:6) is also quoted by Paul in Romans 4:3 to show that Abraham was NOT justified by works (Romans 4:2). The reason is because Paul is looking at Abraham’s justification by faith alone before the law of circumcision was given in Genesis 17:10-14. Thus, Abraham was justified by faith alone in Genesis 15:6, as people are today in the dispensation of grace. Then, after the law of circumcision came, the middle wall of partition was set up between Jew and Gentile, and Abraham was justified by faith plus works, as those of the dispensation of prophecy (Israel’s program) are justified. Therefore, Abraham was justified in both programs (earth and heaven), which is why Abraham is called “the father of us all” (Romans 4:16).

      James 2:24 James, though, is speaking of God’s reconciliation program of the earth through the nation of Israel as a kingdom of priests. In that program, justification is by faith plus works. That is why James says here that “by works a man is justified, and not by faith only,” while Paul, in Romans 3:28 contradicts this statement by saying, “a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” For today’s dispensation of God’s reconciliation of the heaven back to Himself, justification is by faith alone. For the dispensation of God’s reconciliation of the earth back to Himself through the nation of Israel, justification is by faith plus works, as James mentions here. Recognizing the differences between these two programs is the only way we can believe the truth of all of God’s Word.

      James 2:25 James now gives an example of a Gentile (Rahab), who was also justified by faith plus works in the earth program. This shows that the different methods of justification are not based on Jew and Gentile, but they are based on the program in which someone lives. However, the “works” of a Gentile are different from the “works” of a Jew in the earth program, because God told them different things. For the Jew, they are to have faith in God’s covenants with them and follow the law covenant, which are their works. For the Gentile, they are to have faith in what God told them that God would bless them if they bless the Jews (Genesis 12:3) and have works that go along with that. That is what Rahab did in blessing the Jews by helping them overthrow Jericho. During the tribulation period, the Gentiles are to bless saved Israel by giving them food and drink, during a time when the Jews cannot get food and drink because they have not taken the mark of the beast. Thus, when we see Jesus judging the Gentiles in Matthew 25:31-46, the Gentiles who enter the kingdom are those who gave meat drink, lodging, clothing, and help to the believing remnant of Israel (Matthew 25:34-40. But, the point that James is making is that faith plus works is the formula for salvation for both Jew and Gentile in God’s reconciliation program for the earth.

      I could go on with the commentary through the book of James, but I have already clearly shown that it is written to Israel to help them go through the tribulation period.

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