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In Jesus, Grace Upon Grace

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Each month, we will be highlighting a particular theological topic here at the BLB blog. This month, we are highlighting the topic of soteriology—the doctrine of salvation through Jesus Christ. The following is adapted from the Blue Letter Bible Institute’s soteriology class.

“Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Paul, in Ephesians 1:2

The first thing that we notice almost consistently throughout Paul’s Epistles is that when he refers to either a greeting or a salutation that mentions the Lord, he almost always mentions another word: Grace. Isn’t that interesting?

“Grace to you and peace from God…”

So let’s call this God “The Person of Grace.” It’s used ten times in the New Testament and often at the end of the epistle. John uses it also in Revelation 22:21, “the grace of our Lord.” He also uses it in John 1:14: “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

I like what one person told me one time. He said, “You don’t understand grace until you understand Jesus.” At the time I thought it was a simplistic remark. Everybody can come up with those trite little sayings. But, in my life, I have come to know the truth of that statement. When you know the Lord, you know grace. Actually, to try to understand the doctrine of grace apart from Jesus is an impossibility. You can’t do it.

Jesus is all grace. He’s what grace is all about.

That is why John 1:14-17 is so beautiful in this regard:

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.

He keeps piling it grace, and that’s a great thing because He has daily loaded us with benefits. He is a gracious God. He blesses us all the time.

Another way to look at it is that when the grace that He gave you for any particular event, circumstance, work, or whatever…however He sustained you in whatever moment, that grace has behind it an inexhaustible supply. So you say, “Yeah, the Lord touched me with His grace in a wonderful way. He just gave me what I didn’t really deserve.”  He’s got a gigantic, infinite, inexhaustible supply of grace behind it. There’s more coming because of who He is.

Do you know our God wants to give you grace more than you want to receive it?

Grace gives you what you don’t deserve. He’s constantly giving you what you don’t deserve. And you don’t even see it. And that grace upon grace, to me, carries the idea that God’s inexhaustible supply is always there and whatever grace I just received isn’t all there is.

Match that with Ephesians 2:7, “so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” We haven’t yet begun to see the riches of his grace. I saw it when I got saved and the longer I study it, the more it thrills my heart. But I haven’t begun, neither have you, to see the riches of the grace of our Lord. He’s going to keep showing it to you all the way through eternity. Imagine knowing a God like that!

Comments

  1. God has taught me to think of grace as a (free gift)nuclear bomb to take care of sin….the problem is most people don’t understand that grace is given to the extent of the issue….need a mountain moved? there’s grace for that…..need a drug issue moved ask for GRACE aka bomb to blast it away….when Paul petitioned(fasted) 3 times for God to remove the thorn(demonic oppression) in his side…God said my GRACE…(WHICH IS A FREE GIFT TO USE ANYTIME WE NEED IT IF WE REMEMBER TO USE IT)….IS SUFFICIENT….GRACE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN ANY SIN…..ASK FOR IT!!!!

  2. Thank you for posting this.

    Grace is something I get the impression, based on comments about it, that far too many of us who follow Jesus, diminish, or don’t seriously consider. My life’s circumstances have “forced” me to look deeper into this. My desperation, and my contempt for myself and my sins are driving me, with what sometimes feels to be a vengeful force to learn who this God is whom we call– Father.

    According to Titus 2:11-14, we see that God’s Grace teaches us. From what I can tell, there are 5 items that God’s Grace teaches us…
    1- to deny ungodliness and worldly desires.
    2- to live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.
    3- look forward to Jesus’ return.
    4- that we are being purified to be a peculiar people to Him.
    5- to be zealous (excited) for doing good works.

    In 1 Cor 15:10, we read that Paul’s labors for the Kingdom were accomplished by Grace. And in fact– Grace appears to have actually motivated him to labor more abundantly than all the others. And even more– it appears that Grace is what was actually doing the labor– not Paul, but Grace. I like that idea….

    We then see in 2 Peter 1:2-4 that God’s Grace has provided for us every-thing we need to live the life of godliness in Christ Jesus.

    Moreover, we see that he’s given to us “great and precious promises” for the sole purpose of– making us partakers of the divine nature. As a retired craftsman, I am still to this day– a tool junky… I love tools. I am a firm, staunch, and almost “religious” believer in: “Every tool has its purpose, and every job its tools.” So, when I consider this passage– I’m thinking the best-stocked tool chest on the planet. Every possible tool for every possible job. Oh, it gets better– We also have a teacher who is always at our side, to teach us how to use what tools, under what circumstances, at any given moment (John 14:26).

    I don’t know about you guys, but I’m seeing a literal treasure trove of untold wealth that is far beyond our comprehension (1 Cor 2:9-10), and we need to learn it so we can become who/what God is calling us to.

    Furthermore, I get the very distinct impression that God’s Grace is far, far, far, far beyond simply– “His unmerited favor.” I get the distinct impression that God’s Grace is active, alive, embracing, engaging, working in an almost feverish pitch to work in the lives of billions of humans all over the world, to call, sanctify, purify, make holy, instruct, guide, lead, etc…. a people out from the world’s filth so that this people may come to Truly Know the True and Living God, as we read in Jer. 24:7.

    God may indeed be resting– but His Grace– she strikes me as a very busy attribute of God. Jesus did after all tell us– my Father works until now, and I work……

    So, when God’s Word talks of Grace– give that some more thought. I have, and I am being blown away….
    Jesus, please…. teach me, teach all of us your Grace. Teach us that we don’t know as we ought to know, and then fill our emptiness with your fullness.

    Sorry for the lengthy post….

    • Steve~

      Thank you for the insights. Grace is a word that gets thrown around a lot, but I haven’t really studied it too much beyond “His unmerited favor.” You’ve given some great points of study.

      God bless you~
      Barbara

    • Steve, I’m grateful for your “lengthy post”. I can sense your earnest desire because there is Grace being expressed. I too am sort of a tool junky but had never thought of Grace through those eyes. So thank you…I now have a picture in my head of a Grace tool that is curved for those prob’s that pop up around the corner. ;>)

      Have a great weekend

      Mark (Cov)

      • Hi Mark~

        You had mentioned earlier that you were going to address the comments that I posted after the hurricane, but I haven’t been able to find your post. Have you finished it?

        Thanks~
        Barbara

        • Barbara, my computer began to give me some trouble so i placed into a repair shop. Since then I have been busy getting things ready for winter such as firewood, etc. So no I honestly have not had a chance to address your post. Plus with Thanksgiving just around the corner family concerns have kept my attention. At some point I will sit down and reread…..and give pen to paper.

          Mark (Cov)

    • Hi Steve, I am taking your writing to my prison meeting today. I am leading a Yokefellow meeting and we will read and discuss grace today thanks to you!

      Blessings your way,
      Bob Bock

  3. Oooh my! this is beautiful to see Grace as a Person: Jesus Christ my salvation living inside of us by His Spirit. Now I can embrace Him in every moment even as He has embraced me and become one with me. Now I can truly rest from my own dead works and let Him my Grace so able and sufficient work through me and in me. True faith is born of God in us as we behold Him Jesus our ever present help.

    This is the picture I see a branch that is connected to the true Vine receiving all from an abundant source bearing fruits much fruit abundant fruit John 15:1,4&5

    Remain in Him,
    Ticha

  4. Thank You My Father “Abba” My Savior Jesus,My Teacher “The Holy Spirit” For Your Grace !!! and teaching me about it…Amen

    I have and continue to be given Grace at a measure that I can’t even begin to explain or deserve. I Love the LORD with all My Heart and All My Soul and He is My Daddy, My Husband, My Friend, My Confidant, My Savior, My First Love, My reason to Live…His grace Saved Me and Sustains Me everyday I wake up and walk as an Alien in this fallen world. By His leading…

    When I was able to just except that I can not earn it, control it, and understand it fully. Grace Abounded Me!

    I received it ABOUNDANTLY BEYOND MY UNDERSTANDING, Believe me when I say His Promises and Gifts Blow My Mind and will yours too. When you can say “YES” father I accept that gift with a true heart of acceptance, WOW !!!

    Think about it, He Loved us so much He sent His Only Begotten Son so we could have Life and Life Aboundantly.

    Even in our disobedience and disregard He Loves us and Blesses us….He Knows we are but Dust! He knows the heart of each one of us.He seeks that Heart for His own.

    Thanks once again, My Daddy YHWH, your daughter Donna

    May Grace Abound All of You Too !!! 🙂

    • Hey Sis, it’s good to see your smiling face here again.

      For me Grace has been that fluid movement of God towards me even when I did not know I needed God. To walk into a situation, for example, not realizing it was going to be a confrontation with a den of posturing thieves. The Grace tool (thank you Steve) supplied me surprised me because not only was it tempered with boldness to confront which disarmed the situation but also strengthened with truth which brought safety. So Grace is operational only in Faith and Faith works only when mixed with Love. Which explains why we sense His love in Grace. And as a seed, when we extend true Grace, it is planted in Love therefore begins growing even beneath the surface where we cannot see by Faith.

      Which reminds me of a verse…Colossians 3:12-14 So, chosen by God for this new life of love, dress in the wardrobe God picked out for you: compassion, kindness, humility, quiet strength, discipline. Be even-tempered, content with second place, quick to forgive an offense. Forgive as quickly and completely as the Master forgave you. And regardless of what else you put on, wear love. It’s your basic, all-purpose garment. Never be without it. The Message

      Shabbat Shalom…your friend,
      Mark (Cov)

      • Daddy said you would be here Mark (Cov) My brother, to meet me, for that I am thankful! He is not a man that he should lie 🙂

        Love activates Grace, and OH how I long for LOVE, and since God is LOVE, Oh How I Long For HIM 🙂

        1Cor 13:13
        But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

        My faith is streghtening through HIS Grace & Mercy, the more I spread those seeds the more I recieve ! Thanks Be To YHWH, My daddy

        Therefore once as again as it is said….

        Romans 5:1
        Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
        Romans 5:2
        through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

  5. There are 37 instances of the word grace in the Old Testament and 123 instances in the New Testament. The first 25 instances and again at the 35th instance in the Old Testament the word grace is preceded by the word found or find.

    Jesus is the Grace of God. Rev 1:4, Rev 22:21, Tts 2:11, 2Ti 1:9, Hbr 10:28-29, Gal 1:6, Rom 5:15, 17, 20-21

    Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

  7. Grace IS the heart of the Gospel–news so good it’s hard to believe it’s true. We cannot understand the cross apart from God’s grace. Further, His grace is not just a grace to save. It is also a grace to live victoriously in and by His power. We really don’t fully describe it when we say “unmerited favor.” Accurate though that is, God’s grace is so much more.
    Praise God for His grace!

  8. What an amazing and wonderful God we have! Grace is not an idea or a concept, but Grace is a person, Jesus, full of love and mercy. It’s overwhelming to know the inexhaustible supply of our Lord and Savior. He is more than enough in any and all situations we could ever encounter. And His heart of love has to give. It’s who He is. He is truly all we need, simply for the self surrender that accepts the blessing.

  10. The words to this old hymn are so wonderful. Yes, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. His plan was in effect before the creation of the world. Awesome

    Grace

    1. Marvelous grace of our loving Lord,
    grace that exceeds our sin and our guilt!
    Yonder on Calvary’s mount outpoured,
    there where the blood of the Lamb was spilt.
    Refrain:
    Grace, grace, God’s grace,
    grace that will pardon and cleanse within;
    grace, grace, God’s grace,
    grace that is greater than all our sin!

    2. Sin and despair, like the sea waves cold,
    threaten the soul with infinite loss;
    grace that is greater, yes, grace untold,
    points to the refuge, the mighty cross.
    (Refrain)

    3. Dark is the stain that we cannot hide.
    What can avail to wash it away?
    Look! There is flowing a crimson tide,
    brighter than snow you may be today.
    (Refrain)

    4. Marvelous, infinite, matchless grace,
    freely bestowed on all who believe!
    You that are longing to see his face,
    will you this moment his grace receive?

  11. I notice that grace comes from a place of power. To be gracious is akin to being kind. Both of the aforementioned are akin to mercy. If there are gracious words or acts coming from a place of no real power to do otherwise we might not consider that word or action particularly gracious. We notice someone being gracious when they condescend to others in an honest and kindly way. Condescension otherwise is not palatable. God so loves us that he condescended in a real, honest, and kind way. This is a gracious act for sure and since we have estranged ourselves in a rebellious way it is a merciful act. If you are extended grace it is at the mercy of the extender. This is true of hospitality even though there are hardly any real consequences if it concerns only social grace. This is true of a court or judge with the possibility of at least some if not grave circumstances. This is true if we are extended grace from the merciful King of the universe for our treason against Him and His throne or right to reign. At the gate of grace we are allowed the alternative path to life. Thanks and praise be to our God whose attributes include grace. We serve a gracious God.

  12. Thank you for these great words. My Seminary Grace School of Theology has been teaching this to all their students. And to see this bible study this morning, was amazing. I read from your site daily and often use something from it in my daily devotion that I send to some friends. Thank you for providing this amazing tool for learning more about Christ and his love for us. Knowledge and understanding is what we all strive for.

    God Bless

  13. I must tell of the grace of God, 5 years ago I was a full blow alcoholic 15 beers a day, flirting with meth,addicted to porn, I was so lost most would think there was no way I could ever be found,one night in a bar I surrendered my life to Jesus, I cried out to him that night and he saved me,he set me free from the alcohol and the porn and the meth he took my sin from me, that same weekend my wife and my daughter surrendered there liefs to him, my 16 year old son had given his life ti the lord a year earlier and was praying for us, now to this day my whole family is still so madly in love with Jesus, my son just got married to an awesome christian woman and is headed to china to be a missionary, and my daughter is courting a great christian man, now this is just a little of the grace of God in my family’s life and I know if it wasn’t for the blood of Jesus shed for me which was an extencion of hie grace and mercy, i wouldn’t be writing this to you all , may the grace of God be with you all. ~ Brian

    • Brian~

      Thank you for sharing your most powerful testimony about the reality of God’s grace to meet and exceed anything in our lives. God bless you and your family as you continue to move forward for His glory!

      Your sister in Christ~
      Barbara

  14. Bian…you made my point…Grace is the pure power of God that over powers sin and defeats it….We are washed by the blood of Jesus….Grace is given to us to break us free from the addictions that we can not break our selves….most people assume Grace is atomatic….if it was Paul wouldn’t have been reminded that Grace was the answer to his petitions…..ASK FOR GRACE…..got a problem…cry Grace…..Have a mountain of debt, addiction, sin that needs flattening???? ask God for his MORE THAN ENOUGH POWER OF GRACE…..May Grace be MULTIPLIED to you!!!!!

  15. There were two covenants in the garden, represented by the two trees. The offering of Able was in recognition of God’s grace, while cains was an offering of the works of his own labors.
    John 1:17, The law was sent through Moses, Grace and truth CAME through Jesus Christ. Truly as was in the post, we can only see God in seeing Jesus Christ. The religious peoples of Jesus times could not accept that their own observance of law was of insignificance to their salvation; that salvation, was and is purely from and of God. It is grace you are saved through faith and this not of yourselves, it is a gift of God. Not by works lest anyone boast.
    Our sinful nature wants to justify ourselves, which keeps us from surrendering our lives to the One who justifies us freely by His blood; the blood of the perfect spotless Lamb of God, which alone is the sacrifice acceptable to God. The blood of His only Son. He did this to demonstrate His awesome power, by raising Him from the dead, and His love beyond our ability to understand by the sacrifice of His only Son.
    If we see Jesus, we see the Father, filled with grace mercy and love for us. Filled with truth about us and about our Father, who is love. Truth is always on the side of Grace, but we with our wretched flesh from embracing law and knowledge as did our first Adam trample the Lord’s grace in two ways; 1, we add to it works or “doctrine”, or righteous acts of ourselves, to separate us from others, and establish some scale of saved, sonship. on which we elevate ourselves.
    Jesus, when confronted with the woman caught in adultery, stooped and with the same finger of God as wrote the first commandments, wrote in the ground, speaking to those who were there; ” Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”. When they all left, the oldest first (the mature), he proceeded to comfort the woman with the fact that He did not condemn her, telling her to go and sin no more.
    2, We accept our fleshly understanding of grace and continue living a life without any change. The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.
    The Lord teaches much on forgiveness, because that is the very nature of grace, and the love of a Father. If anyone claims to be without sin, they are a liar and the truth is not in them. Our sanctification process which is just the result of His grace that saved us through faith He gave us, is that we are being changed, transformed, as we submit to the spirit he gave us, into the very image of His Son jesus. A process that is a pressing on until He comes. At that time we will see him as He really is, and be like Him. Until then, we fix our eyes on Jesus, the author of and the finisher of our faith, and follow His lead. Grace and law do not mix, and truth is always on the side of grace.
    The early church, despite the persecution, was filled with grace and peace, and were in awe of God, and the things he was doing. they were one, and there were no divisions. Peace can only be had by a better understanding of grace and truth, Jesus Christ. The new covenant, and grace and peace and truth are found only in the blood and the life and words of our Lord Jesus. Oh that we would understand the depth the width the breadth and the height of the love of JGod in Christ Jesus. We are His children by his own doing. Salvation belongs to God and to the lamb. Praise him all you saints of the Lord For His grace and your salvation. Tell others what great gospel He brought. Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace and good will towards all mankind.

  16. when Adam sinned his spirit died…he became the father of death….when we ask Jesus into our heart to be our Savior our spirit is raised from the dead…Jesus is the father of life….we do not have the keys to death and hell…Jesus does…we have not got the power to kill our spirit again…this understanding gets rid of half of the reigious doctrines who think you can loose your salvation….We are bought and paid for by Jesus’ precious blood….his blood (which is God’s own blood) redeems us from the curse of the law…but the law isn’t evil, trying to keep it in our own way and breaking it brings the curse…it is supposed to be written on our hearts….when we repent from our sins God is faithful to forgive us….problem is most religions teach that the LAW is done away with….it isn’t done away with….the law should be written on your “new” heart…not kept like an external check list….but written on your heart in Jesus’ blood keeping you from sin….It is very easy to test and see if you have a right view about the law….if the law of God is written on your heart there will not be a single conflict with word of God from Genesis to Rev. you won’t have to make religious excuses about how that was for then and not for now….it brings peace with the truth of God….and you find out what God means when he says he never changes and what Jesus meant when he said not one jot or tiddle would be changed……the scripture is clear but only when it all works together and isn’t divided up wrong…..GRACE is the Power of God to save us….it is not of ourselves…it is THE GIFT of God….not of works (by me)….and I thank God he has taught me to ASK for it in every situation!!!!Grace is a free gift….not automatic gift…we are born sinners but we don’t have to stay there….be yea therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect….it’s time for the Church to rise and shine….Jesus has paid for all of it….don’t miss any of it

    • Donna~

      I don’t whether you have read my posts, but believers can lose their salvation because the same free will we used to choose Jesus to be the author of our salvation is the same free will we have to continually use to have Him be the finisher of our salvation. It is imperative that all Scripture is used (II Tim. 3:16) when formulating doctrine, not just the verses that tell of God’s power and faithfulness. For example, there are numerous “If” verses (e.g. Rom. 11:22) that illustrate that we have a great responsibility for our final salvation. It is also imperative that our conclusions are a product of sound reasoning of Scripture (II Tim. 2:15), not the result of taking one or two biblical truths and indiscriminately applying them. For example, the biblical truth that “we do not have the keys to death and hell” is irrelevant to the topic of whether believers can lose their salvation, so it cannot be used as proof of eternal security.

      We are, as you said, absolutely saved by grace and not of human works, but I’m sure you would agree that it is biblically inaccurate to eliminate verses from our consideration that give a third truth about our salvation. Just one excellent example of this can be found in John 15:1-6. I’ve given this passage several times before, and there is absolutely no ambiguity in it whatsoever. In this passage, as you know, Jesus is using the analogy of a vineyard to describe the relationship between believers and Himself. We understand from several references, especially verse 5, that Jesus is “the vine” and believers are “the branches.” In verses 4-5, Jesus says that believers cannot bear fruit unless they abide in Him, but this passage is clear that not all branches do continue to abide in Him and that there are consequences. In verse 2, He speaks of two types of branches that are “in me [Jesus],” believers who bear fruit and believers who don’t. Those branches that do bear fruit are pruned by God in order to bear more fruit. Those branches that do not bear fruit are “taken away,” which verse six explains as being “…cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.” Because it is the branches (believers) themselves that are burned, this passage cannot be used to support the loss of reward as taught in I Corinthians 3:15. It is the loss of salvation, a truth that further underscored by the fact that the word “abide,” is used nine times in chapter 15, four times alone in verses four and six as a warning to believers so that they will not be “taken away” and “burned.”

      I’ve read your posts, and I know that you love the Lord and desire the truth of His Word, so I am not writing this because I think you are being deceitful with your comments but because you have not taken into account this and so many other verses that demonstrate that believers can lose their salvation. I have many other examples if you want them. If you can explain why I am wrong with the interpretation that I’ve given here, I will consider it as along as you address my reasoning point by point. So many other people have said that I am wrong and yet do nothing more than cite verses that appear to contradict my view while totally ignoring what I’ve written which, obviously, is not the way we are to approach God’s Word. I look forward to hearing from you.

      Your sister in Christ~
      Barbara

  17. While I do pursue a deep knowledge of God and doctrine, I know better today that growing in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ is more important than growing in the knowledge of doctrine. It is so well said to say that Jesus is grace. Knowing doctrine is wonderful, since biblical doctrine informs life. But my heart has been well directed by knowing better Jesus who is grace, than doctrine alone.

  18. The law is not the redemption, the salvation prepared before the foundation of the world. The law is still active and in the hearts of the redeemed. The law is testament to the inadequacy of the flesh. Pride is wholly revealed by the law.

    Gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    Hbr 6:15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
    Hbr 6:16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife.
    Hbr 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:
    Hbr 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    Almighty is the font, the source of power, there is none greater. Certainly, there is no ability to wrest from the hand of God. The ultimate obstacle for human being has been and is decision. No human can physically jump from one continent to another despite the intensity of preparation. God cannot lie. What is the power, the promise contained in the tree of good and evil but decision?

    Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

    Do not look back or bail out from the sure hand of God. This is the strength, the passion behind the exhortations against doubt and fear.

  19. Thank you everyone who responded to Chris Poblete’s post. I am really blessed. Each day can be a ‘walking in’ and finding out how God wants to surprise us with a fresh moment of His Grace. Amen

  20. Barbara, You have brought up a great point…..Scripture has a funny way of being viewed two different ways….you are viewing it as you can loose your salvation…..not because it is stated, but because it is implied by the way you view what the word says….In John 15 look carefully at what Jesus says….v6 if a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered;and MEN gather them, and cast them into fire, and they are burned…..where is that hell? when did men get the power over hell? christians who are not abiding in Jesus is living in hell on this earth…..Study EVERY WORD….1 Cor 2&3 are telling how to get rid of fleshly things….believe me I am not preaching live any way you want to and all will be well….far from it….God is so cool….and when we learn that when we put our total trust im Him, He is able to keep us….ABIDING is the key to LEARNING….Find a scripture that says you can kill your spirit….Romans 8:14-17 v15,16 For ye have not recieved the spirit of bondage again to FEAR(not the fear of the Lord …but fear of not being saved);BUT you have recieved the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, ABBA, FATHER. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:……Now I can not verify your spirit is alive…neither can you see if mine is alive….the Holy Spirit bears witness…..I can tell you my testimony, and my walk with God, and how He teaches me Himself,….and He has taught me to abide in Him….I can look back over my life and see that when I wasn’t abiding I was being BURNT….but by the Grace of God he never left me…..like the 3 hebrews thrown in the fire the son of man was in there with them….Barbara I am sorry for the teaching that robbed you of the comfort of the steadfastness of God and his salvation….there are those who have pretended to be saved and never were….those are the tares and the goats…they bring strife, division,error…..God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, His word brings PEACE, COMFORT, JOY,…..Fear of God means respecting Him enough to do (live) His word…..not being afraid of loosing His salvation…..I pray you find that peace of His Spirit communing with your spirit that He will NEVER LEAVE YOU OR FORSAKE YOU!!!! Recieve that Promise!!!!

    • Donna~

      Thank you for responding. I will have something posted tomorrow.

      Yours in Christ~
      Barbara

    • Donna~

      Again, I thank you for responding, and before I get into any doctrinal issues, I would like to address some faulty assumptions that you have made. The first is in your comment, “I am sorry for the teaching that robbed you of the comfort of the steadfastness of God and his salvation….there are those who have pretended to be saved and never were….those are the tares and the goats…they bring strife, division,error….” Your assumption that I came to my opinion solely through the teaching of other people is wrong. As I’ve written before, my total ignorance of whether true, born-again Christians could lose their salvation prompted me to do my own study. Armed with God’s Word, prayer, and repentance, I held God to His Word in John 16:13, James1:5, Matthew 7:7, II Timothy 2:15, 3:16, to name a few. Sometimes the Holy Spirit just impressed the truth upon me, and sometimes He led me to other Scripture. There were also times that I was led to commentaries, which were great points of study, and I either accepted or rejected what was said after I “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11b), that is, whether they were true in an of themselves and reconcilable to the rest of God’s Word. As to any teaching other than the commentaries, there weren’t any. I have never been in even one class, or church for that matter, that ever put this topic out for study, and I didn’t consult anyone until after my study was done just to double check what I had written.

      The second incorrect assumption is in your comment in which you said, “…you are viewing it as you can loose [sic] your salvation…..not because it is stated, but because it is implied by the way you view what the word says.” With all due respect, you don’t even know me, so how are you able to determine that my conclusions are influenced “by the way [I] view what the word says,” which I take to mean that I went into it trying to prove that believers could lose their salvation? The truth is that I went into this study with absolutely no preconceived notions or agenda with the aim of allowing the eternal security chips fall where they may. As you may or may not know, it took me a year to come to a solid conclusion, but I am still finding verses that support my findings.

      There is one other quick comment. You wrote, “Find a scripture that says you can kill your spirit.” As you know, God’s truth is phrased in many ways, and we have to be careful that we don’t eliminate a truth solely on the grounds that it is not emphatically stated. Just a quick example is that there are some people who don’t believe that Jesus is God, and it doesn’t matter how many scriptural proofs you give to support the fact that He is God; they want a verse that states, “Jesus is God.” Well, there is no verse that has that exact wording, but of course that doesn’t mean He isn’t, does it? The same reasoning can be applied to your request. Just because there isn’t a Scripture that says “…you can kill your spirit” doesn’t mean believers cannot lose their salvation because there are other ways of phrasing the same truth. The other reason we need to be careful about what we ask for is that if I demand a specific kind of proof from someone, then that person can also rightfully demand the same proof from me. For example, if I were to ask you for the scripture that says that you cannot kill your spirit, would you concede that people can, indeed, lose their salvation because there is no verse that gives that exact wording, or would you provide other verses that illustrate the same truth if there were some?

      You cited several verses about receiving the spirit of adoption and that we are children of God, and I agree totally with these verses, but these are only discussing what happens when we are born again and are not proof that one cannot lose his or her salvation after this fact. You wrote that we are to “Study EVERY WORD,” but you addressed only verse 6 of the analogy found in John 15:1-6. Drawing conclusions from one verse without taking the other six into consideration isn’t going to rend the truth of God. I guess I should have commented on verse 6, but I thought it was obvious what was being spoken about given the previous five verses, that that branches that don’t continue to abide in Jesus and bear fruit will dry up because they are no longer attached to the life of Jesus, and then they will be gathered up and burned, a reference to hell. I believe your reasoning is faulty because you are taking too literal of an approach to verse 6. As you know, we are not literally branches; we are human beings, and Jesus, as He often did, is putting forth a spiritual truth using agricultural terms. I think your objections can be easily explained by understanding that within the analogy, Jesus uses a simile as we can see from the word “as.” He is just making a comparison between what happens to physical branches that are dried up and spiritual branches that are died up so that believers will know that, just AS men gather and burn the natural branches that do not bear fruit, so, too, will the spiritual branches who do not bear fruit be gathered and burned. Therefore, your question about “where is that hell? [and] “when did men get the power over hell?” are not to be understood as something that men do or that happens on Earth. I’m not sure of what you mean by your comment that “christians who are not abiding in Jesus is living in hell on this earth.” I could take a stab at it, but I think it would be better if you just rephrased it to clarify it. Because I already explained verses 1-6 in detail in the last post, I really don’t have anything to add. If my interpretation of this passage is incorrect, why didn’t you address anything that I wrote in order to correct me?

      As far as everything you wrote about my “being afraid of loosing [sic] [my] salvation” or that I don’t have the “peace of His Spirit communing with [my spirit] that He will NEVER LEAVE [me] OR FORSAKE [me],” you couldn’t be more off the mark. Although I haven’t arrived by any stretch of the imagination, I daily die to myself to live my life for Christ. I live a life in which I “…seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness” (Matt. 6:33b), and I have reaped great spiritual rewards. Unfortunately, this is the only conclusion that many people can reach when they ignore all the Scripture that testifies that true believers can lose their salvation, which you proved with your comment “that when we put our total trust im [sic] Him, He is able to keep us.” You are correct. It is WHEN we put our trust in Him that He will keep us. As Paul said, “…I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day” (II Tim. 1:12). The implication here, then, is that those things that we do not commit to Him, He will not keep. If this happens enough over an extended time, then one that the person, if he doesn’t repent, will drift away totally, giving nothing, including himself, to the Lord for keeping, thereby losing his salvation.

      Because you have been on this site, then perhaps have read my four examples in which I show that believers can lose their salvation. If you would like to address them, I will direct you to the post or even repost them. Some of these are “If” verses that illustrate that, while our initial salvation is free, our final salvation is conditional, not on works, of course, but on a life that presses forward in Christ. Just one of these examples is Romans 11:20-22, which says, “Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” If these verses are not speaking of losing one’s salvation, just what is the spiritual truth being put forth?

      I look forward to your response, and I pray that our eyes of understanding will be continually opened as we seek the truth of God’s Word.

      Your sister in Christ~
      Barbara

  21. Unbelief is what broke off the natural branches….Paul is warning us of unbelief….unbelief isn’t believing then loosing belief….it is UNBElIEF…..Unbelief is never believing in the 1st place….like I said study every word!!!

    • Donna~

      While the word “unbelief” can certainly mean “never believing in the 1st place,” where did you get the idea that unbelief cannot mean “believing then loosing [sic] belief”? I looked up the word in Strong’s, Thayer’s, Vine’s, and two dictionaries, and not one of them made that distinction. Can you provide the source for me, please?

      Twice you have told me to study “every word,” but you didn’t address the whole of John 15:1-6 to determine whether true believers can lose their salvation, and you ignored a very important clause in the Romans 11 passage I cited for your consideration, that “…if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off” (v. 22). The phrase “if thou continue” can only be understood to mean that these people are believers, and the word “if,” as I wrote in my last post, illustrates that a believer’s final salvation is conditional. If you think I am wrong, please tell me what the word “if” means and how it relates to the word “continue.” Lastly, we are very clearly told that if these believers don’t “continue in [his] goodness” that they will be “cut off” (ekkopto, Strong’s G1581), which means “to cut out, cut off”… a branch from a tree,” an obvious reference to the John 15 passage in which we are told that there are two types of branches “in [Jesus],” meaning they were both saved, but that one “beareth not fruit” and one did “beareth fruit.”

      Another example that demonstrates that salvation can be lost and that the word “unbelief” can very much mean “believing then loosing [sic] belief” can be found in Hebrews 3:7-19. You can study each verse yourself, but the context begins in verses 7-8 in which the Holy Spirit is giving believers a warning about not hardening our hearts toward God as the Israelites did, and it ends in verse 19 in which we read that the Israelites did not enter into the Promised Land of Canaan and that it was because of “unbelief.” Now, if the definition of “unbelief” can only mean “never believing in the 1st place,” then you are implying that out of “that generation” (v. 10), which, with 600,000 men plus women and children would total 2 million at the very least, that not even one person ever believed “in the 1st place” that he or she experienced salvation (physical deliverance) at the hand of God, a foreshadowing of our salvation (spiritual deliverance), one of the many applications of I Corinthians 15:46. I’m sure you would agree that this is not a correct understanding of Scripture. It wasn’t that the Israelites didn’t initially believe in their salvation; it was that they didn’t continue in their belief. That is why their “carcases fell in the wilderness” (v. 17b). That is why they didn’t “enter into his rest” (v. 18b), and that is why we are given the warning: “Take heed, brethren, lest there be IN ANY OF YOU AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF, in DEPARTING from the living God” (v. 12, caps mine). Obviously, one cannot depart from God if he or she didn’t believe in Him the first place. In addition, so serious the topic and so final the consequence that the warning is repeated in Hebrews 4. Beginning with “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it” (v. 1) and ending with “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief” (v. 11), the meaning that God’s people can fail to enter into His final rest, the Promised Land, whether Canaan or heaven, cannot be removed from what is plainly given here in Hebrews, in Romans 11:20-22, and in scores of other verses and passages.

      Donna, I would never suggest that you, or anyone else, just take what I have written as truth. We are each personally called to study the Word (II Tim. 2:15) and to check all doctrines against the Word of God (Acts 17:11). Having said that, however, neither should you just arbitrarily dismiss what I am saying just because it doesn’t fit your current theology. As you know, both God and man said and did a lot more than what God had others write down and pass down to us as Scripture. I have to believe, then, that every bit of what we have received is of utmost importance, and if it is of utmost importance, then I also have to believe that the exact truth is to be known by believers and that it can be known by believers, that with study, prayer, fasting, and repentance, God will give us the wisdom to know His Word.

      I have a couple final thoughts to share. We are all in this together and, like you, I am constantly learning and growing. While I don’t like being wrong anymore than the next person, there have been times when I have been, and if I am wrong, especially with regard to the Word of God, I truly want to know, but this doesn’t mean giving a verse or two that appears to contradict what I have said. It means that sound reasoning is applied to solid scriptural proof not only to build a valid argument to support your viewpoint but to honestly and credibly dismantle mine.

      If you have any questions or comments about what I have written here, or if you would like some of the other examples that I found, then I would be happy to discuss them with you. This isn’t about my being right or your being right. It is about the Word of God going forth as He purposed as I am sure you will agree.

      I pray that you and your family will have a blessed Thanksgiving.

      Yours in Christ~
      Barbara

  22. I hope you see this post…Barbara….I believe you truly want the truth….I am not saying to study every word to be trite….that is the truth….sometimes the scriptures appear to being saying one thing and then when you study each individual word you will see that the 1st look at it will give the wrong impression….John 15 is one of those examples….Most people study different versions of bible….but God instructed me to study KJ….I didn’t understand that at first, but now I see that’s the only way to study and understand every word….only KJ has every word going back to it’s original form….. John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he (God) taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit he(God) purgeth it, that it bring forth more fruit……now look at the word taketh away….that sounds like cut off and cast to hell….but look at the meaning….it means taken up…..now God can cut off someones life without casting them to hell….in v3 Jesus is talking to a group who he is declaring clean through his word ….he is explaining how abiding in him is health and knowledge to the believer….again in v6 this world is used as the fire to burn a christian who is not abiding in the word…..I have only pointed out a small example to you….I was taught by God himself about our salvation… so I don’t come at it with any confusion ….if a scripture appears to be saying that we can be cut off then I immediately start praying and asking God for the truth of his word….never one time has he sent me to a comentary to read anyone elses opinion…only to the word and it’s definitions…..Blessings to you Barbara in your search for the truth….I only have one suggestion…pray and narrow your search of the truth to God and his word…then using the concordance get every bit of honey out of beaking each word open….if you ever want hear what he taught me on salvation….this is what he said….when Adam sinned his spirit died….Adam became the father of death….Jesus is the father of life….when we ask him into our heart our spirit is raised from the dead….we have not been given the keys to kill our spirit like the power that Adam had…only Jesus has that power…. Jesus can never die again…neither can our spirit…..this does not recue us from LIFE CONSEQUINSES…..if we do not abide in him we are cut off from making the right LIFE choices…God bless you!!!

    • Hi Donna~

      Thanks for your post. I do have a few comments, but I probably won’t get them posted until later today if you would like to come back.

      Have a blessed day~
      Barbara

    • Donna~

      Thank you for your response. It is a blessing that fellow believers can come together to discuss the Word of God, and I truly value the experience I’ve had on this site. However, the one thing that I struggle with is when the discussion turns from what the Word is saying to how I am or am not receiving the truth in comparison to someone else. Just for the record, I also use the KJV, concordances, and prayer. Secondly, your comment that “never one time has me sent me to a comentary [sic] to read anyone elses opinion” is not only insulting in its implication about how I arrive at conclusions, but it ignores Scripture, most specifically Ephesians 4:11, which says, “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.” In this verse, we learn that God gave the body of Christ five ministries through which believers will receive further instruction in the truth to augment their personal study and prayer. In addition, we are blessed with learning from other believers and sites such as this one. Not only is my learning something from someone else’s commentary not suspect in itself, it is no different than your learning from your pastor or Sunday School teacher or group Bible study or Christian radio/TV or Christian books/magazines/DVDs, so I would appreciate it if we just spent our time on biblical interpretation because the other will only result in division.

      With regard to John 15:2, you wrote, “now God can cut off someones [sic] life without casting them to hell.” With all due respect, that is not a valid conclusion based upon the John passage. The phrase “taken up” is “airo,” meaning “to rend away, to cut off” (Strong’s G142). The Thayer’s entry says, “to take of or away what is attached to anything.” Both entries denote a severance, not merely the lessening of “health and knowledge,” which isn’t even implied in this passage. Also, in verse 2, we understand that it is an actual severance of the (spiritual) branch from the (spiritual) vine, not merely being “cut off from making the right LIFE choices.” It is true that when believers don’t abide in Christ as they should, they won’t make right life choices, but they, as branches, are not literally removed from Christ, the vine, which is what this verse is saying. In addition, you wrote that “this world is used as the fire to burn a christian who is not abiding in the word.” Where is that interpretation stated or implied in this passage? Secondly, you are using an idiomatic understanding of the word “burn,” clearly not the intent of the analogy unless you can show me the correlation between men gathering and burning branches to the world bringing believers into line through some sort of punishment. Something else to consider is that this passage doesn’t end its teaching with the word “abide.” In fact, the idea of “abiding” is only used to usher in the ultimate truth of the passage, that of bearing fruit. Yes, Jesus is, as you wrote, speaking “to a group who he is declaring clean through his word,” and He is telling them that if they don’t bear fruit, a result of not continually abiding in Him, that they will be “cast forth.” In this context, “he is cast” (ballo, Strong’s G6906) means “to throw or let go of a thing without caring where it falls,” and “forth” means “without, out of doors (exo, Strong’s G1854) and “out of” (Thayer’s). It’s the same idea being put forth in the Luke 13:6-9 in which the nonbearing tree will be “cut out, cut off” (ekkopto, Strong’s G1581). None of the words or definitions, in English or Greek, can be understood as anything but loss of salvation, a total separation from Christ. I gave two very clear examples and explanations of this, Romans 11:20-22 and Acts 3:7-19, in my November 20 and 21 posts above, and I would like to know what they mean if not loss of salvation, especially in light of the warning in verse 12 which I included: “Take heed, brethren, lest there be IN ANY OF YOU AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF, in DEPARTING from the living God” (caps mine), a reference to the 2 million plus people who lost their salvation. This isn’t my interpretation. This is a very plainly written warning from the Holy Spirit to believers of today about believers of yesterday, so please tell me how my understanding of it is wrong if it is.

      You wrote that “….if a scripture appears to be saying that we can be cut off then I immediately start praying and asking God for the truth of his word.” Donna, it sounds like you are not approaching Scripture from a neutral position but from one of a belief in eternal security, but do you think this is a scholarly way to approach God’s Word? Furthermore, not only are there numerous scriptures that imply that believers can be cut off, there are many verses that use that exact phrase, especially in the OT. You can do a word search for them yourself, keeping in mind, of course, that not all of them refer to being removed from God’s people, but some of them very much do, Genesis 17:14 and Leviticus 20:17, for example. You can study these, but in the latter verse, there are two phrases that are essential to understanding the whole and that is not only will this person be “cut off,” but he “shall bear his iniquity.” We know from both covenants that a man’s sins are covered only by accepting the sacrificial blood of slain animals and that without that covering, man will have to bear the punishment for his own iniquity, meaning to bear the wrath of God, in hell, for eternity. I assume we agree on this point. Well, if God is saying that this man will be removed from His people and will bear his own iniquity, what does this mean to you?
      I know that the doctrine of eternal security is pretty rooted in much of Christianity, but I have found that it is the very verses that I have given you, in addition to others, that the body of Christ ignores when coming to this conclusion. All I am asking is that a reasonable and scriptural answer be given as to what these verses are saying if not the loss of salvation. I look forward to your response.

      Have a blessed day~
      Barbara