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Eternal Security: Who Believes in It? (an introduction to the next blog series)

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Later today, we will begin our final example of Emphatic Negation as included in the Gospel of John Chapter 10.  This passage of Scripture will deal with the issue of “Eternal Security.”  Based upon the meta comments on other posts, I can envision a lively discussion regarding this matter.

However, what I would like to forestall is to see any discussion becoming an issue of Calvinism vs. Arminianism, which is so often what occurs.  The reason is that the doctrine of Eternal Security (by it’s various names, e.g., Perseverance of the Saints) is not exclusive to Calvinism by any means.  And thus to sink into this type of back and forth arguing will be non-productive.

To show that this is not a doctrine exclusively of Calvinism I wanted to give some historical perspective.  The doctrine of Eternal Security is held by the following groups.

The Southern Baptist Convention

The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) includes congregations and ministers from across a spectrum including those who would describe themselves as Calvinistic, Armininian or independent.  However, following is an excerpt from the “2000 Baptist Faith and Message,” the confession of the SBC, which can be accessed at   http://blb.sc/0000Ei.

V. God’s Purpose of Grace

…All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.”

Similar wording is included in the “1925 Baptist Faith and Message,” and the “1963 Baptist Faith and Message” which can be accessed at http://blb.sc/0000Ei.

In 2012, a group of persons within the SBC who were concerned with the growth of the Calvinist influence in the SBC, issued a statement entitled, “A Statement of Traditional Southern Baptist Soteriology.” What is important about this document is that its self-described purpose is to counteract the Calvinistic beliefs that are being promulgated in the SBC.  Yet, as it relates to the doctrine of “Eternal Security,” these self-identified non-Calvinists state their avowed belief in the doctrine of Eternal Security,

Article Nine: The Security of the Believer

We affirm that when a person responds in faith to the Gospel, God promises to complete the process of salvation in the believer into eternity. This process begins with justification, whereby the sinner is immediately acquitted of all sin and granted peace with God; continues in sanctification, whereby the saved are progressively conformed to the image of Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit; and concludes in glorification, whereby the saint enjoys life with Christ in heaven forever.

We deny that this Holy Spirit-sealed relationship can ever be broken. We deny even the possibility of apostasy.

The complete statement, “A Statement of Traditional Southern Baptist Soteriology,” can be accessed at http://blb.sc/0000Ej

Lutherans

The Formula of Concord is a Lutheran confession of faith that is held by many Lutheran bodies of faith, including the “Evangelical Lutheran Church in America,” and the “Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.”  Following is an excerpt (with emphasis added) from the The Formula of Concord. You can read the document at http://blb.sc/0000El.

XI. Election.

Affirmative Theses.
The Pure and True Doctrine concerning This Article.

8. Therefore we should judge concerning this our election to eternal life neither from reason nor from the Law of God, which lead us either into a reckless, dissolute, Epicurean life or into despair, and excite pernicious thoughts in the hearts of men, for they cannot, as long as they follow their reason, successfully refrain from thinking: If God has elected me to salvation, I cannot be condemned, no matter what I do; and again: If I am not elected to eternal life, it is of no avail what good I do; it is all [all my efforts are] in vain anyway.

While Lutheran doctrine does allow that there are “temporary believers” that can fall away from grace, these “temporary believers” were not the elect.  Also, it is important to note that Luther and the authors of the Formula of Concord did not believe that election is based upon the foreseen faith of the believer (synergism), but solely upon God’s decision (monergism).   They also sought to associate election more to Christ, in the sense that the elect are for Christ and by the work of Christ for Christ’s inheritance (Ephesians 1:1-7), rather than an arbitrary decision in eternity past.  After Luther’s death, some Lutherans started to follow a more synergistic view of salvation, led by Philipp Melanchthon, Luther’s friend.

Calvary Chapels

The following excerpt is from the pamphlet, Calvinism, Arminianism & the Word of God: A Calvary Chapel Perspective, by Pastor Chuck Smith, founder of the Calvary Chapel movement.

PERSEVERANCE

Maintaining a Bible-centered balance in these difficult issues is of great importance. We do believe in the perseverance of the saints (true believers), but are deeply concerned about sinful lifestyles and rebellious hearts among those who call themselves “Christians.” 

We don’t have all the answers to these matters, but we desire to be faithful to the Lord and His word.

(Smith Chuck, Calvinism, Arminianism & the Word of God: A Calvary Chapel Perspective, (Costa Mesa: The Word for Today, 2011), 14.)

The included citation is for the latest printed version as of this writing.  An online pdf version is available at http://blb.sc/0000Em (see the last paragraph of page 6).

 Independent Churches / Fellowships

Many independent churches, fellowships and ministries hold to the doctrine of eternal security.  Following are some notable examples, selected for their breadth of doctrinal views.

 Ariel Ministries

Ariel Ministries is a Messianic Jewish ministry whose mission is to evangelize and disciple our Jewish brethren.  The following excerpt is from their doctrinal statement accessible at http://blb.sc/0000En.

Salvation, Section Three – Eternal Security

We believe that all true believers once saved are eternally secure forever because of the nature and work of Christ and the very nature of the divine gift of eternal life; that it is the privilege of all who are saved to be assured of their salvation from the very moment that they accept Him as Saviour; that this assurance is not based on their own merit, but by the testimony of the Scriptures and the witness of the Holy Spirit.

 The Berean Call, the Ministry of Dave Hunt

Dave Hunt is well known for his books, messages, articles and debates against Calvinism.  Yet, Dave Hunt holds to the doctrine of Eternal Security of the believer.  Here’s an excerpt (with added emphasis) from The Berean Call ministry resources at http://blb.sc/0000Eo.

He [Christ] obtained your salvation, he paid the price.   Infinite cost you couldn’t pay it and then he turns it over to you to keep it.   Well it’s like turning a fortune over to a two year old.   I couldn’t save myself, I couldn’t live a good enough life to get saved, I certainly can’t live a good enough life to keep saved.   But then he goes on and he talks about the earth that bringeth forth thorns, briars and so forth and rejected and to burned and then he says this: “But beloved we are persuaded better things of you and things that accompany salvation though we thus speak.”   So it seems that this falling away is a hypothetical case.   He doesn’t say “when,” he says” if.”   But this is not what accompanies salvation and I want you to know the writer says you can’t get saved if you can fall away, but falling away is not what happens to a true Christian.

The Arminian Remonstrance

As we can see from the above examples, the doctrine of Eternal Security, while held by Calvinists, is not solely a doctrine of Calvinism.  Calvinists believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, but Trinitarian theology is not uniquely Calvinistic.  In fact, it gets even more interesting when you actually read the articles of the Arminian Remonstrance from 1610  that are dealing with this issue.

The “Five Articles of the Remonstrance” refer to the document created by the followers of Jacob Arminius, protesting the Calvinistic teaching about predestination.  The Synod of Dordt was called to respond to the Remonstrance.  Here is Article V of the Remonstrance that deals with the perseverance of the saints (emphasis added).

Article V–That those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith, and have thereby become partakers of his life-giving Spirit, have thereby full power to strive against Satan, sin, the world, and their own flesh, and to win the victory, it being well understood that it is ever through the assisting grace of the Holy Ghost; and that Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, and desire his help, and are not inactive, keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft or power of Satan, can be misled, nor plucked out of Christ’s hands, according to the word of Christ, John x. 28: “Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” But whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first beginnings of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of becoming devoid of grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scriptures before they can teach it with the full persuasion of their minds.

Note the sentence highlighted above.  Reading it very carefully, it is saying that they (the Arminians) could NOT teach that a believer could lose their saving grace, without further study and conviction of Scripture.

Conclusion

As was stated earlier, the purpose of this article was to show that the doctrine of Eternal Security was not a doctrine limited to those of the Calvinistic persuasion.  I am not even indicating that all these groups place the same amount of emphasis on the doctrine, or view it exactly in the same way.  But it has been shown herein that there are Lutherans, non-Calvinistic Baptists, and numerous independent churches and fellowships of the Christian faith, as well as Calvinists, who do believe that the Scriptures teach the doctrine of Eternal Security.

I am not asking you to hold to this or any doctrine because of someone else’s belief in it.  I am asking that each of us search the SCRIPTURES to determine what we believe.  In addition, that we not relegate our future discussions on this matter to “name calling.”

Since Justin’s last example of emphatic negation will deal with this subject, we also felt this would be a good segue for a new series by Justin on the topic of Eternal Security in the original languages.  Justin will look at other Scriptures, in the original languages, that are both supportive and problematic for the doctrine of Eternal Security.

Hopefully, these future studies will bring us to a fuller appreciation of the work of our Lord Jesus Christ for believers, and cause us to worship Him more fully than ever before

Comments

  1. Thank you for your thoughtful compilation of doctrinal statements. The Scriptural evidence for eternal security is far too compelling to dismiss. I am looking forward to your studies from the original languages.

  2. I would like to start with this understanding spoken, that my opinion doesn’t really matter its all about our LORD’S WORDS.

    I am a Holy Spirit Filled Believer I was Born Again of Water and Spirit by Grace and Love through my acceptance of My Christ the Son of God sent in the Flesh to Redeem me.

    I am a work in progress under the Potters Hand.

    I have not been a joined member of any denomination and my teacher is the Holy Spirit and the Saints and Elders he puts before me as I pray and ask for Help and as He sees fit in my need.

    My Husband and I go to whatever church or place the LORD sends us when He Sends us for there for that Season.

    Now with all that said.

    We believe based on what the LORD has revealed to us at this point,as He reveals new things and releases new revelation to us each day that we press into Him and Seek Him, that His Security is Eternal because His Covenant with Each of His Believers and Children will never be broken once made.
    He doesn’t break covenant man does, we do.
    He Never Changes.
    We also believe that our willingness to be Loved, Changed, and Molded into His Image and out of this world and out of our old man, is also directly related to us and the dwelling place we decide that we are willing or wanting to live in and do live in His Kingdom now.
    We have to Believe He Loves Us No Matter What.
    We have to Allow or Submit to His Cleansing of Us no matter how hard.
    We must Love Him with All Our Heart and Soul.
    We must Learn to Love Each Other Unconditionally, Friends and Foes.
    We must each do what His Word says to do and what He tells us to do each and every day we live in this world.
    We are walking our salvation out.
    We are working our salvation out.
    We are being transformed.
    We are being called home.

    I find Eternal Security in His Promise and Covenant because I do what I am called to do by the best of my personal ability, though faulted and tarnished at times because I am flesh.

    I seek His Face from a willing Heart, and He promises if I do that He will Never Forsake me.
    For He alone knows My Heart in That I am safe, Covered, and Always His.
    Under His Wings,In His Heart, and One with Him and My Savior.

    That’s Secure enough for me.

    I will finish with these verses, His Words not Mine.

    Be Blessed and Love by Our Great God and my Daddy “YHWH”.

    2 Corn 3:18
    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
    1 Peter 4:6
    For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.
    1 Peter 4:7
    The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.
    1Peter 4:8
    Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
    1 Peter 4:9
    Be hospitable to one another without complaint.
    1 Peter 4:10
    As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
    1 Peter 4:11
    Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

    May His Peace & Love Rest Upon Us Today.

    • I wonder why the writer of Hebrews gives “the Holy brethren”; “partakers of a Heavenly calling”, such warnings as are throughout the book. I believe 6 in all. Why does Paul warn the Corinthians (1 Cor 10) by using the example of the Jews in the wilderness. It is these type of scriptures that cause me to wonder just where stand on this issue. I certainly do not believe you go in and out of salvation but I do see Apostasy as clearly defined in the Word as people that had saving faith at one time.

      • Hi there James,

        It is not “saving faith”, or people would have eternal life based on the faith of Jesus. (Gal 2:16 KJV, Gal 2:20 KJV; Philippians 3:9 KJV) It is soulish belief, only a profession of truth, nominal, like belief in a creed or philosophy of life, a lifestyle mimicking a true faith walk for a time, until tested and uncovered by God. Consider what happened with Demas (Philemon 1:24 KJV; 2 Tim 4:10 KJV), and Titus who was the first elder in the ekklesia of the Cretians. (Titus 1:4; 3:15) I am sure Paul suspected something, by the Holy Spirit, and prayed fervently for his beloved brothers.

        Sadly, this is the state of most Christians today, who are not born from above. True saints are a relatively small remnant of the massive global whole, if one believes as true what the scripture reveals about apostasy!

        That’s why we are exhorted to make our calling and ELECTION sure. (2 Peter 1:10 KJV)

        How do we do that do you suppose?

        Walk in the Grace and Light of God,

        Dee

    • Donna, I believe you and I are on the same page of the same book. God is not a man that He would lie…I do not serve a God that is schizophrenic. The God I serve has written my name in The Lambs Book of Life because The Blood of His Son is binding. His yes and amen is exactly that…yes and amen.

      I know most of us have heard the line….blood is thicker than water…yet who knows the original complete saying? It goes like this…The blood of covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. It has never meant an ethnic or kin blood line is thicker than a cup of water. No, the blood in this saying is founded in the blood of covenant. The Western mind set has not wrapped its mind around the eternal soundness of a divine blood covenant. Probably because the culture of breaking covenants has grown with each decade. The problems of this country and others can be unearthed in the systematic desecration of blood covenant.

      Daddy God has never had a covenant agreement with Lucifer and he was booted as lightening. But through Jesus, The Christ, mankind can walk the circle of a blood covenant recorded and stamped in His body. I for one have taken the eternal opportunity. True enough I have made mistakes but in The Communion of The Holy Spirit I have made my stand. Made in His image, I move and have my being. I am more than a conqueror ever sowing and reaping proving Daddy God’s spoken word to be fruitful and multiply to be truth.

      In short, I have a Blood Covenant with El Shaddia that no man can unravel nor darkness up root.

      • Mark (Cov),

        I would like to say thanks for being my brother and thanks for listening to that sweet gentle voice of our Holy Spirit and Savior. I wanted to write you to say I feel a change of season and that my time here is over for now. My “Abba” is leading me to a hands on season with Women and Children. I am very excited and know He knows best for me and all of us. Please pray for us as He brings us to mind as I will you. We are forever connected as one in Him my brother. Amen….I know Daddy sent you for me at a time I needed confirmation on what I heard and for that I thank both Him and you.
        He has taught me to stand not matter what it looks like or what others think. I wish I knew how to stay in touch but I don’t feel led to put my email up on this site so I will finish with what I was given by the LORD this morning. I feel its specifically for us.

        2 Timothy 3:14
        You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
        2 Timothy 3:15
        and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
        2 Timothy 3:16
        All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
        2 Timothy 3:17
        so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

        Mark (Cov),
        I speak this over you and your family in Yeshua’s/Jesus’ Name
        “The LORD Bless You and Keep You,The LORD Make His Face Shine Upon You,And Be Gracious To You,The LORD Lift Up His Countenance To You,And Give You Peace..Amen.

        • Donna, a seed planted is a harvest reaped. I accept the release of blessing knowing it shall return as an increase. If a 1000 years is but a day in eternity, then a 100 years on earth is but a couple of hours. So in that city only moments away we as family will be united. Glad your my sis. At that time all will recognize each other.

          The scripture you have quoted from Numbers 6:23-27 is a picture of a father holding his child and breathing the blessing. It is a happy exchange full of joy and surprise…it is even said this is the posture of Father God as He blessed Adam and Eve. I also take to heart the release of speaking from 2 Timothy as inspired…a breathing.

          So on this new adventure know that thing you place your hands on will prosper. That does not mean challenges evaporate…even a blade of corn must push through the soil.

          Barukh attah Adonai eloheinu melekh ha-olam,
          she’asani betzalmo….Blessed art Thou, LORD our God, Master of the universe, Who created me in His Image.

          Simply, life is sacred…and we made in His image will be given opportunities to project His life into this place called time. No child is exactly like the parent but DNA projects the image. That is partly why the enemy fights us so…we remind him of our Daddy God so just wipe your feet on the ground because the enemies place is ground between the cleats on our Shoes of Peace (Romans 16:20). Reborn, light moves through us…walking forward faith empowers us…grounded in covenant love protects us.

          Be Blessed

    • sounds to me like donna believes she’s in control of her salvation, that she has to ‘hold on’ for dear life when it’s the Lord who sustains us. those born-again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ who do not believe in eternal security have ‘repented’ i.e., ‘changed their mind’ since salvation. if you believe John 3:16 is the Gospel, sans the resurrection, then at the point of salvation you believed in eternal security. what part of ‘shall never perish’ don’t you understand? since the Word of God contains no mistakes and no contradictions i say again what part of ‘shall never perish’ don’t you understand? it’s all a matter of correct interpretation.

      • Amen Dan! But are we talking about man’s concept of eternal security or God’s gift of eternal life? Is it the same? I don’t see eternal security written in the scriptures.

        Chuckle, chuckle! I think your summation of John 3:16 as a christian gospel, “sans resurrection”, is spot on! My gosh! It seems there are different interpretations, metaphorical and allegorical, of the concept “shall never perish”.

        I am so joyful that eternal life is in Jesus and can’t be messed with! (John 5:39-40 KJV)

        Walk and live in grace,

        Dee

  3. Well done, I’m glad you are tackling this divise subject within the body of Christ. May God be glorified.

  4. Since we are “forestall(ing)” before we discuss John 10. I would like to set my framework, at least for myself and anyone else who happens to care.

    The “sheep” as written, are the Jews.

    The “Jews” as written are the “hirelings”, or the Daddy God appointed Priesthood (GODS authority) of Israel who were caring only for themselves and not caring for the “sheep” (Jews).

    The “other sheep” are the nations (goyim).

    J.

    • I agree with your definitions of “sheep” and “Jews.” Very astute observatons. However, I think the “other sheep” are the 10 northern tribes of Israel. Jesus said he came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24). In that context, he would not even speak to the Gentile woman until she recognized her proper place in God’s program, i.e., taking the crumbs after the children (Israel) are fed first. Jesus’ bringing all the sheep into one fold, fulfills prophecy in Ezekiel regaring the house of Israel and the house of Judah being united again. This also explains why Jesus went to Samaria in John 4. A lot more can be said on this, but this is just food for thought.

      • Hi Eric,

        I also believe that John 10:16 refers to gentiles as the other sheep, as Jerry outlines. The language Jesus uses is similar to the language in Isaiah 57:8 KJV, which infers the New Covenant promise to include gentiles. Especially Isaiah 57:7 KJV, talking about a house of prayer for all people (meaning not just the nation of Israel), as outlined in Isaiah 57:6 KJV.

        Similarly, Paul’s language in Ephesians 2:14 KJV, is consistent with Jesus’ description.

        Peter uses the same metaphors of sheep and shepherd but he is writing to the recently dispersed Jewish believers (diaspora) who fled persecution (1 Peter 1:1-2 KJV), not the lost tribes specifically. By this time, he was considered the apostle to the Jews even though Jesus gave him the “keys” to unlock the gentiles salvation by faith (Acts 10). We know that Peter was a little hypocritical in applying the revelation of God’s grace to gentiles (Galatians 2:11-13) and Paul had to preach the good news of God’s grace to him,(Galatians 2:14-21, and especially verse 18), but we know that also he knew the gentiles were included in the grace of God.

        Grace and Peace,

        Dee

  5. Great article! Thanks for putting these things out and helping people understand that eternal security is a doctrine that has wide support within the body of Christ and is not exclusive to a Calvinistic construct.

  8. It is true that many individuals and many denominations hold to the doctrine of eternal security, and sadly, most of the time the argument does boil down to nothing more than a debate between Calvinism vs. Arminianism when it should be to the Bible, alone, that we look.

    Having heard many people go back and forth on this issue and not really knowing what God’s Word says on this topic, I decided that I would find out for myself because, obviously, whether one can lose his or her salvation is second only in importance to salvation itself. Therefore, I spent over a year in prayer and God’s Word with two verses guiding my study. The first verse was II Timothy 2:15 which says, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” This command to do our part will result in God’s promise being realized, that we will find the truth that He has given us. The second verse was II Timothy 3:16 which says, “All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” In other words, to find the promised truth from the above verse, I approached this topic with the purpose of reconciling Scripture, not with the purpose of proving, through isolating verses, one side right and the other wrong.

    After much prayer, fasting, and study, I found that the Bible very much teaches that a true, born-again believer, according to John 3:3-6, can lose his or her salvation. In fact, it is one of the most thoroughly documented doctrines found in God’s Word. My paper is far too lengthy to post here, but there are some thoughts and guidelines that I would like to share. While I do believe that Scripture does support the idea that one can lose his or her salvation, I want to first clarify what I don’t mean by that. First, one doesn’t lose salvation by sinning. We all sin and will continue to do so until we die or until Christ comes, but we know that when we do, we have “an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (I Jn. 2:1b). Secondly, I also don’t mean that just because a person backslides for a time that the person automatically loses his salvation because that is one of the points of the prodigal son (Lk. 15). However, I do believe that these two things, when allowed to go unchecked, can ultimately lead to a person losing his or her salvation. Thirdly, the word that is pretty much always used to explain the phenomenon of going from a saved to an unsaved condition is “lose” as I have even used in the title. Although the word “lose” has many biblical and secular meanings, sometimes the word can suggest an action of carelessness akin to losing one’s keys or wallet, and when applied to salvation, it might suggest that one can, though some accidental or unintentional action, lose his or her salvation, which is not at all what I am suggesting.

    Taking God’s declaration in II Timothy 3:16 to mean that no matter what one Scripture says or doesn’t say, it cannot be in variance with another Scripture, I began by taking all the verses that are used to prove that salvation cannot be lost (e.g. Jn. 18:9, Heb. 13:5, II Pet. 2:9) and brought them into harmony with those verses that suggest that salvation can be lost (e.g. Jn. 15:1-6; I Cor. 9:26-27; Heb. 5:11-6:20; the letters to the seven churches in Asia). I was then able to determine that the ideas behind the former verses are that God loves believers and that He will always hold onto them, guaranteeing final salvation, and both are absolutely true. Nothing will ever separate us from the love of God; He will always be there, through trials, temptations, tragedies, and right on through to our final salvation. However, the purpose of these verses is not to illustrate that believers cannot lose their salvation but to reveal God’s faithfulness to us over and above anything or anyone in Heaven or on Earth or under the Earth that would, through anything at their disposal, appear to be able to snatch us from His arms, His power, or His love (Num. 11:23, Dan. 9:29, Is. 63:1). These verses are our assurance of both His desire and ability to accomplish what He has purposed and that nothing can stop Him. He will never forsake us; however, we can very much forsake Him because above all things, we have been given the freedom of choice, the freedom to say yes to God and the freedom to say no to Him. It was true with Adam and Eve at the beginning, and nothing has changed.

    As you know, we are in a covenant relationship with God. A covenant is a formal agreement in which each party agrees to abide within specific, agreed-upon stipulations to keep it intact, and while God cannot break the covenant He has with us, we most certainly can, just as Israel did. In addition, Satan and his minions will try to separate us from the love of God, but they can’t; however, we can separate ourselves from it, as did Judas. God will always lead us; however, we don’t have to follow, as did some of the early disciples This is why we are given the admonition, “Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering (for he [is] faithful that promised” (Heb. 10:23). Other people may hurt us and try to discourage us, but we are told, “The LORD [is] on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me” (Ps. 118:6). We need only look at the OT to see all of these verses in action. No matter what Israel faced, as long as the people were walking faithfully with the LORD, He kept His hand on them, even in their times of sinning, which we all do. However, when the people rebelled against God, through their own choices, they removed themselves from God’s protective covering, from His provision, and, as the story of the Hebrews wandering and dying in the wilderness proves, even His salvation. It wasn’t that God quit loving them or that evil angels overtook them or that men snatched them from His arms; they had the freedom to choose, and they chose to walk away. Christians have a saying that they like to put forth: “If you feel far from God, guess who moved?” The reason why this is true is because it isn’t God’s fault that we feel distanced from Him; it’s our fault. We have His Word, His guarantee, that He will never “move,” but His creation can, either through rebellion or apathy, move, and there are consequences for that.

    Both God and man said and did a lot more than what God had others write down and pass down to us as Scripture. I have to believe, then, that every bit of what we have received is of utmost importance, and if it is of utmost importance, then I also have to believe that the exact truth is to be known by believers and that it can be known by believers. God has given a powerful promise: “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come” (Jn. 16:13). There really should be no disagreement within the body of Christ as to whether believers can or cannot lose their salvation.

    We are given another promise from God. Romans 10:17 tells us that “…faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” As a friend once told me, “We can read books about the Bible, talk to other people about the Bible, and listen to pastors teach on the Bible, but unless we are in the Bible ourselves, we will not learn its truths.” This is so very, very true because that’s exactly how God designed it to be. Our relationship with Him, His Word, and all that entails is not to be done vicariously.

    I pray that each person reading this will take God at His Word, both His commands and His promises to find out the exact truth He has given us.

    Yours in Christ~
    Barbara

    P.S. As I wrote, my paper is too long to post, but if there is a specific verse or passage that anyone has a question on, I would be happy to offer any insights that I have.

    • Hi Barbara, as much as i would like to know that salvation can’t be lost, i still ask the question: Why would God’s word warn against hardened unbelief, in Hebrews 3:12, if truly saved believers can’t lose their salvation? Why are believers to exhort one another so that no one departs from God unto hardened unbelief?

      Compare with Hebrews 10:22 and we see a call to draw near (unto God) in full assurance of faith. This is the opposite of Hebrews 3:12 where departing from God unto hardened unbelief, is in view, is it not? Then in verse 26, we see willful sin mentioned. Verse 29 indicates that Christ and His shed blood is in view. In both chapters we see the Greek word for “exhort(ing)” in the context of the heart. Right after verse 25, we see willful sin mentioned. It seems to me, that the exhorting spoken of in Hebrews 3 and 10 is what keeps the brethren’s hearts from eventually hardening unto a state of unbelief. Is not the church to build up the faith of believers?

      Also, notice verse 23 of Hebrews 10, where hope is in view. 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8 indicates that to watch is to be sober, and to be sober is to have faith, love and hope. We see faith and hope in view in Hebrews 10:22, 23. And we see that the exhorting is unto love and good works. The Bible indicates that faith works by love, and faith is the substance of things hoped for. So, love and hope are closely related to faith, it seems to me. If a believer chooses to live a life of satisfying their flesh and ignores God’s warnings, it seems to me, that the hardened heart eventually leads to a cessation of faith and a loss of salvation, because salvation, while being by grace, is still through faith, which means to me, that if we choose to continue to sin to the point that our hearts harden to the point that we stop believing, we are then lost (no longer have salvation through faith). I can see why some Christians believe salvation can be lost. The Bible seems to indicate as such when Hebrews 3 and 10 are compared, i think…???

      Sean

      • Hi Sean,

        I just want to make a general comment here. The whole context of “rest” taught in Hebrews points to a “besetting” sin (Hebrews 12:1 KJV), only one, and it is not whatever your pet sin is at the moment, which is widely taught by christian teachers and pastors.

        The sin that does so easily beset (or skillfully surrounds, like a roaring lion walking around seeking who he can devour) can prevent one from entering into the Rest of God (Hebrews 3:18 KJV), which is Jesus the Messiah. That one besetting sin is unbelief. Of course unbelief means no faith of Jesus for righteousness, no gift of grace from God, which equals no eternal life.

        Just a sobering thought.

        Walk in the Grace of God,

        Dee

      • Sean~

        Thank you for responding. You brought up some very good points and Scriptures to illustrate how love, hope, and faith are so interwoven into God’s plan of salvation. Does not our God execute His plan in the most perfect way? The question has never been whether God has the desire or ability to save us or not because He is mighty to save (Zeph. 3:17); the question is, do we, as believers have a faith that backs up our professed hope, or do we, as you wrote, “[choose] to live a life of satisfying [our] flesh and [ignoring] God’s warnings” which can lead to “hardened heart [that] eventually leads to a cessation of faith and a loss of salvation”? I believe the perils of not learning and growing is the exact point being discussed in Hebrews 5:11 to 6:20.

        You also brought up the idea of exhortation and how, in Hebrews, it is this, that “keeps the brethren’s hearts from eventually hardening unto a state of unbelief.” You are right. We do have a great responsibility toward other believers for their spiritual well being and “to build up the faith of believers.” We are Christ’s body, His hands and feet. We are to do as He did. Therefore, it is very much for our personal and corporate good as well as God’s glory that we take the command to “exhort” very seriously. I hadn’t really thought about it, but the act of exhorting (warning, comforting, instructing) that we are called to do is exactly what the Holy Spirit does for us so that our faith and hope will result in salvation, so I believe the point is very well made that our salvation is based on our heeding the exhortation of both fellow believers (corporate) and the Holy Spirit (personal), leaving us, really, with no excuse, and the warning in Hebrews 3:7-11 being very clear, that we will not “enter [His] rest” if our hearts are hardened toward Him, not allowing His sanctifying power to have its perfect way in us. Isn’t this why, as one of the verses on your site so clearly says, that “A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways” (Ja. 1:8)? We are not to allow our hearts or minds to stray from God because our bodies will follow, leading us to destruction. To me, it is a sign of great ignorance of God’s Word that some believers today think they are immune to the destiny which befell millions of God’s covenant people that they died in the wilderness rather than receiving the promised land. Isn’t this the point of Romans 15:4 that says, “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope”? Isn’t one of the things that was written in the OT for our learning the very truth written in Romans 11:21, which says, “For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee” (Rom. 11:21)?

        If I may, I’d like to challenge the thinking in your comment, “as much as i would like to know that salvation can’t be lost,…” What would be the cost if it weren’t possible for true believers to lose their salvation? What would heaven really be like if the filth, however minimal, of our minds, hearts, and flesh were to occupy eternity with a pure God? Is that the kind of eternity that you desire to be in, one that is nothing more than a much-improved Earth? We need to strive to be in agreement with God. In addition to being Christ’s body, we are being built up with other believers, as living stones, to be a holy temple of God. We are told in Ephesians 5:26-27 “That [Christ] might sanctify and cleanse [the church, His body] with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” Christ is coming for a sanctified church, and while God does not desire that “any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” (II Pet. 3b), some will, flesh-led believers and non-believers alike, because they have not brought themselves into subjection to Christ while on Earth. God may have saved us out of our sin, but He still cannot abide in it, and to suggest that He would spend eternity with someone who, although saved at one time, walked according to the flesh and not the Spirit, is to ask a holy God to dwell in the midst of sin forever, which contradicts His very nature.

        Here is something else for your consideration. There are many Scriptures that are “if” verses, illustrating that our final salvation is conditional upon our faithfulness to the covenant we entered into with God:

        ~“But IF ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses” (Matt. 6:15).
        ~“And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, IF ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses” (Matt. 18:34-35).
        ~“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (Jn. 8:31-32).
        ~“Verily, verily, I say unto you, IF a man keep my saying, he shall never see death” (Jn. 8:51).
        ~“I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. IF a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned” (Jn. 15:5-6).
        ~“For IF ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but IF ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Rom. 8:13).
        ~ “And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together” (Rom. 8:17).
        ~“Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off” (Rom. 11:22).
        ~“And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, IF we faint not” (Gal. 6:9).
        ~“In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister” (Col. 1:22-23).
        ~“For now we live, IF ye stand fast in the Lord” (I Th. 3:8).
        ~“IF we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us” (II Tim. 2:12).
        ~“But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end” (Heb. 3:6).
        ~“For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end” (Heb. 3:14).
        ~“IF ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But IF ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons” (Heb. 12:7-8).
        ~“See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more [shall not] we [escape], IF we turn away from him that [speaketh] from heaven” (Heb. 12:25).
        ~“But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (I Jn. 1:7).
        ~“IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (I Jn. 1:9).
        ~“Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father” (I Jn. 2:24).

        Thanks again for your insights, and I hope I have provided some for you, too. If there is any other idea that you would like to discuss, I would enjoy it.

        Your sister in Christ~
        Barbara

    • Barbara, i agree with you about those who only study the word vicariously through a pastor or teacher. I had a friend on Facebook who is like that. She always reads books and sermons by pastors, but she doesn’t seem to study for herself to see if those things she hears are so.

      If you click on my name, the link will take you to my Bible blog at: http://kjvbibleverses.blogspot.com/ There, you’ll see compared KJV Bible verses that i carefully checked out with the Strong’s concordance regarding certain words that relate in some way. I study for myself, but i also go to the online commentaries aften…Barnes’ notes on the Bible, and John Gill’s commentary, in particular. Anyway, i’ve learned a lot in the last few years by studying for myself and also checking out the commentaries. I usually agree with the commentaries, but once in a while i differ in opinion regarding a verse in question. Anyway, just thought i’d share about my Bible blog since you mentioned those who only receive their Bible knowledge through pastors or teachers without studying for themselves, using the Strong’s concordance. My Bible blog is just verses without commentary, so that’s like studying for yourself, since i don’t add any commentary. I just lead the reader to the verses that i’ve found to relate in some way.

      May God bless our study of His word,

      Sean

  10. I just have a question actually two. Can(1) and will(2) God turn his back on(or forsake)covenant people? Please give scriptural reference.

    • Tim~

      Well, let me answer you this way. How many of the Israelites, God’s covenant people, actually entered the promise land?

      Barbara

      • Just a quick point that He didnt turn His back on them. They were still saved from Egypt. Also Mosses didnt make it in the promise land either but we know he was saved because he shows up again in the transfiguration. So ultimately he was saved but was disqualified from receiving some very special rewards.

        • Hi Clay~

          It makes it a little confusing having this topic on two different pages and going back and forth. Rather than start a dialogue here with you in addition to the other one, I will answer these comments on my past post to you (September 28, 2:34 p.m.). I should have it by Sunday night or Monday morning.

          God bless you~
          Barbara