The BLB Blog

The official blog of Blue Letter Bible

"Let Us Therefore"

Posted on Posted by

The following study was put together using the classic Thompson’s Chain Reference, available at the Blue Letter Bible.

The New Testament letter to the Hebrews was written to encourage Christians during a time of trial. The author turns his readers’ attention to the supremacy and sufficiency of Jesus Christ in all of life. Dispersed throughout his gospel reminders are exhortations to put their faith to practice in the power of God’s grace. Here are some of those exhortations.

Let us…

…have reverential fear.

“Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it” (Hebrews 4:1).

…labor.

“Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience” (Hebrews 4:11).

…come boldly.

“Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need” (Hebrews 4:16).

…go on.

“Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God” (Hebrews 6:1).

…draw near.

“let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water” (Hebrews 10:22).

…hold fast.

“Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful” (Hebrews 10:23).

…consider one another.

“And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works” (Hebrews 10:24).

Comments

  1. This short study is very empowering. It might be event considered a foundational truth of what it is to be a Christian. Hebrews is a marvelous book for all of us. It strengthens our foundation as Christians.

  2. Okay, I’ll bite. Why do you write the “letter to the Hebrews was written to encourage Christians”. Doesn’t the title tell us it is witten to encourage Hebrews?
    J.

    • It’s simply a matter of the entire Bible has been written to all Christians. God did not intend that we would pick and choose what we would heed. Someone could so easily throw out entire books of the Bible — such as, that was written to the Ephesian church therefore it has nothing to do with me, etc., etc., etc.. Or, that was written to the Philippian church so it doesn’t have anything to do with me as a Christian either.

      • Sharon,

        I understand what you are saying and agree the scripture as written to a specific person or peoples is intended for us all, but picking it apart solely for those different people groups was not what I intended to implying in what I vaguely wrote. Let me add more detail, as gentile (not Hebrew) followers of Yeshua (Jesus) the Hebrew Messiah, we are joining into the Hebrew faith. So, the point I was trying to make was to say the “Letter written to the Hebrews” (Hebrew believers and non-believers in their Messiah) was to encourage Christians (a name gentile believers of the Hebrew Messiah give to themselves) doesn’t quite make sense as it would if it was any letter written to one of the gentile nations like you reference in your reply. From Genesis 12 to Acts 10 we find the direct history of the Hebrew race. That is approximately ninety percent of scripture. The rest of scripture is the story of the nations past and future through books written by Hebrews to the nations.

        Here is a question; does a Hebrew need to become a Christian in order to follow the Hebrew Messiah?

        J.

        • Who shall not see Him, whose house is left desolate? Who is He that comes in the name of the Lord? Were we made for the sabboth or was the sabboth made for His people? The promises of God are set forever and will come to pass. Israel and Jerusalem are examples and patterns in New Jerusalem that has 12 gates. Act 13:39 The name of the Lord is Jesus, who is the Lamb. Rev 21:23 Hbr 8:5-13

          • Thank you for the reply back. Let me ask the next question I have to your answer.
            Was Jesus a Christian or a Jew?
            J.

          • Hi Maciek,

            Where is this written? Can you give me a scripture reference for what you have said?

            Thanks!

            Grace and peace is in Jesus,

            Dee

          • Jerry~

            I’m not understanding the point of your question. The suffix “ian,” as used in “Christian,” means to adhere to or to follow. Why would you ask if Jesus followed Himself?

            Thanks!
            Barbara

          • Jerry~

            What is the point of your question, anyway? This is exactly the type of question put forth by the Pharisees to trap Jesus to see whether His teachings were to destroy the Law of Moses. Do you not know who Jesus is? Does not the Scripture reveal Him to us? Are we not plainly told that He was a Jew born under the law (Gal. 4:4)? Are not we told that that He came to fulfill the law and prophets (Matt. 5:17)? Are we not told that He is the mediator of a new (Heb. 9:15) and better (Heb. 8:6) covenant? Are we not told that this covenant is one built upon grace and truth rather than the law (Jn. 1:17), which has not only freed us from the law of sin and death (Rom. 8:2) but has established the law within us (Rom. 3:31) because it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives within us (Gal. 2:20)?

            In other words, Jerry, Jesus was a Torah-observant Jew who fulfilled, not only all the righteous requirements of the Law but all the ritual laws and ceremonial observances in order to make way for a new and better covenant by which those who call upon His name become grafted into the spiritual house of Israel as the children of God and church of God being built up as the holy temple of God.

            In Hebrews 6, we are warned about the perils of not moving beyond the foundational tenets of our faith that we may become mature in it. May I also suggest that we move beyond all this silliness? When one has a true grasp on Jesus’ positioning with regard to the Old and New Covenants, one doesn’t need to pose such questions.

            Barbara

          • Barb,

            My questions are rhetorical to make us think. Rhetorical means they have obvious answers, 1) No, they don’t need to become “Christians”. 2) Yes HE is a Jew not a “Christian”. They don’t really need to be answered. As you say, “mov(e) beyond the foundational tenets of our faith that we may become mature in it.”. I may have hit a sensitive issue with you.

            Jn. 1:17 does not establish any covenant, it only refers to whom the covenants come thru, Moses and Yeshua.

            I’m glad I only have to look to Yeshua to pass judgment on my eternal soul and the Blog Keeper to decide what is allowed to be posted.

            J.

          • Jerry~

            If your questions are meant to be rhetorical, then please make that clear because there are people who pose these exact questions in order to prove that, as a Jew, He would never have gotten rid of the ritual laws, so what is being taught in Christianity (N.T.) couldn’t be correct. I’ve gotten into discussions with people who believe this, so when I read your questions, that’s what came to mind. Even in reading a couple of your other posts, I really don’t see anything suggesting that they are rhetorical either. What you mention as a “sensitive issue” was just my reaction to what I, apparently, misread as the reason behind your questions. Had there been any indication that you were throwing them out for discussion, I wouldn’t have responded the way I did, so next time I will know or ask if I’m unsure. Finally, I see no difference between my comment on John 1:17 and what you said, but we don’t need to go into that.

            I hope you have a blessed week~
            Barbara

          • So Barb, do you agree with the obvious answers to my rhetorical questions? Be careful what you say, your theology may depend on it, and we wouldn’t want to loose that would we? (Pssst, that was another rhetorical question with the obvious answer being – yes, we would, because our faith is in the person with the title over HIS head “King of the Jews”, not a religion).
            J.

          • Jerry~

            Do I agree with your answers? I don’t mean to offend you, but it’s not that I agree or disagree with your answers. I just don’t see the point of asking the questions because they really don’t require any thought. Was He a Jew? Given that Jesus was descended from the tribe of Judah, who wouldn’t believe He was a Jew? Was He a Christian? Again, because a Christian is a follower of Christ, it’s seems silly to ask if Jesus followed Himself. I’m not sure of the purpose of your other comments. Neither I nor any other Christian believes that salvation comes through religion (denominational affiliation) but through a relationship with God when one is born again.

            Barbara

          • Wonderful, well think a little more thru your comments ask ask the LORD to show you what HE wants. I know HE will and I believe HE is. You didn’t comment on, Does a Hebrew need to become a Christian to follow the Hebrew Messiah?
            J.

          • Jerry~

            I don’t know what you mean by your first couple of sentences, but I will answer your last question like this. When my Jewish grandmother accepted Jesus as her Messiah, she considered herself a Christian. Other Jewish people don’t, preferring to stay connected with their Jewish culture and traditions. In God’s sight, there is no difference; all believers belong to the spiritual house of Israel.

            However and sadly, there has been a lot of misinformation and miscommunication on both sides although it is usually the “Christian” side that gets most of the flack for its supposed nonacceptance of its Jewish brothers and sisters in Christ, so let me relate a personal experience that might shed some light on this, beginning with a little background. My dad was a non-practicing Jew, so there was nothing Jewish in my upbringing. However, several years ago, I was invited to a Messianic congregation for the blessing of a baby. The rabbi taught on Paul, and I enjoyed his sermon very much, but at some point, he interjected a very thoughtless and incorrect comment about “Christians.” Needless to say, as a Christian, I was really taken aback that he would say such a thing. A week or so later, I found myself at a social event where this same person was present. As I was sitting there, again pondering what he had said, the Lord put something on my heart, and it was that there are some Messianic Jews who are guilty of the very thing thing about which they accuse Christians, that of spiritual elitism. It is my prayer that the walls between these two groups will come down so that we can walk in the true freedom of fellowship that God intended.

            I hope that I have answered your question, but in any case, I don’t see any reason to continue discussing these rhetorical questions because the Bible has clearly answered them all.

            I pray that you will be blessed in all spiritual things~
            Barbara

        • Barbara,

          You said, “Jesus was a Torah-observant Jew who fulfilled…all the righteous requirements of the Law…in order to make way for a new and better covenant by which those who call upon His name become grafted into the spiritual house of Israel as the children of God and church…”

          That is erroneous Christian doctrine that can not be supported by the scriptures. Jewish believers were already a part of the body through faith in the Messiah. The book of Hebrews was written specifically to existing Jewish believers to exhort and strengthen them in the faith. Peter, James and John were already the apostles to the Jews (Gal 2:7-9).

          Romans 9-11 does not teach that Jews become a part of the body of “Christ and the church” by being grafted in! The broken off branches of the olive tree, and the grafted in wild olive branch (Romans 11:13-17 KJV) refer to the NATION of Israel (Jer 11:16-17) and believers (Roman 9:24-25 KJV) called out from gentile nations, respectively. Paul is revealing the mystery (Romans 11:25 KJV) as it relates to 1) the prophesied New Covenant in Jer 31:31-33; 33:15-16 KJV), 2) Israel’s being grafted back in again, and 3) the gentile’s tenuous role in it. It refers to the restoration of the Nation of Israel under that New Covenant. (Hosea 13:9-10, 14) Also see Matthews 24, Rev 6, 7) It is gentiles that are grafted into the New Covenant, not the other way around, which is why individual gentiles from nations around the world can be called to be part of the body of Christ.

          Paul, warning gentile believers against vain conceits and arrogance, says: (Rom 11:26-28 KJV) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

          Jesus the Messiah is the fulfillment of that New Covenant. He is the Son of God who fulfilled all the righteous law, not just a “Torah-observant Jew” as you say. The 27 books of the so-called Christian New Testament bible reveal the doctrine and spiritual application through Jesus as the New Covenant, to both the nation of Israel (The 4 Gospels), and believers (Jew and Gentile) called by God into the body of Christ, as revealed by Paul. 2 separate things. Communion is done in remembrance of His blood which ratified the New Covenant which Jesus celebrated with both Jews (Luke 2:20 KJV) and gentiles (1Corinthans 11:23-25 KJV)

          Why is this important? Because it shows the faithfulness of Jehovah God who will always keep His promises (Hebrews 11:1 KJV, and many, many other declarations), especially to the Hebrew Fathers. No matter how the christian doctrines slice it, the Nation of Israel has separate and distinct promises from God. They are not swallowed up and replaced by the “church”, as you have just preached here, Barbara. He will never abandon Israel. It is “silliness” to think He would.

          Christians must read the scriptures for themselves and pray, not just accept some theologian’s teachings.

          Grace, Peace, Truth and the Love of God are in the Messiah,

          Dee

          • Dee~

            I just scanned your response, and it is clear that you didn’t understand what I wrote. I am also surprised that you go into such great detail about something you wrongly assume that I don’t know. In addition, I can scripturally show that some of what you have written is wrong. However, I don’t want to get into two dialogues with you at the same time. I will respond as time allows after you address the other post. If you think that you will be working on the other post for a few days, I could try and address this post. Let me know.

            Barbara

          • Barbara,

            I can only go by what you say or write, in this case, and my comments were in response to what you wrote. And what you wrote is very clear. If it is not what you meant, I suggest you go, study your material and discuss it with your spiritual advisers, pastors, etc., so you can teach what you mean. It is confusion otherwise.

            Barbara, I do not want to rehash these issues with you again. Please read what I wrote and meant in other comments on this and other blog days. I am responding to you as a courtesy since you took the time to write back. I am moving on.

            Grace and Peace is in Jesus the Messiah,

            Dee

          • Dee~

            What do you mean that you don’t want “to rehash these issues” with me again? With all due respect, I was having a dialogue with Jerry, not you, and you offered your opinion to tell me that I was wrong. All I did was respond to your post. This is what I meant by your verbal bullying. You seem to be of the opinion that you can say anything you want but if anyone disagrees they get read the riot act. If I’m not allowed to voice my opinion about what you have written, then don’t engage me in a dialogue when I am conversing with someone else.

            Barbara

    • “Christian” means “A believer in Christ”. If one accepts Jesus as his/her personal Messiah and establishes a relationship with Him, thus believing that He is Savior, then he will be able to call himself a Christian. I am a Christian, but I am Jewish by birth and culture. Jesus completed my relationship with him when I accepted Him as my Personal Messiah. I believe that the Book of Hebrews was written to show the Hebrew Christians that Jesus is the only way to complete faith, and I think other scholars might have that same belief. In answer to your other question, yes Jesus was Jewish. He folled the Mosaic covenant, but fulfilled all Old Testament prophacies.

      • Thank you for responding. In my view, what you describe is what Christianity has come to mean and be. As the LORD leads study the origins of Christianity and the Christian Church and the word Christian in the scripture.
        J.

      • Hello Robert,

        I believe that Jerry S. is pointing you in the right direction for your prayers to God.

        You wrote: “Christian” means “A believer in Christ”. That is a Webster’s dictionary definition, not the scripture. Your definition is unclear and the Greek word Christos is still untranslated and made into the English word Christ. The actual translation of the underlying Greek word “christianos is “follower of the Messiah or Anointed of God”, used only 3 times in the scriptures, and so Christian means follower of the Messiah. (Please read the context of the uses of this word.)

        So what is the big deal? This English translation not only communicates an incorrect understanding of the word christos (anointing or to smear), but it obscures the Holy Spirit’s revelation of the first coming and returning again of the Messiah to us from the scriptures. A person would have to explain its meaning, saying Christ means anointed or Messiah and all the prophesied implications–Jesus is God, the Son of God. Remember, Christianity is a gentile religion.

        Now, as a Jew, you may have knowledge of what Messiah refers to historically. But there are many, many secular Jews who don’t, and there are many of them in Israel also. One christian with a “ministry” to Jews told me that Jews don’t come to “Christianity” because they don’t want to accept “Christ” as their Messiah and lose their Jewishness. I think those Jews got it right! Christ is not the Messiah! Jesus the Messiah is the Messiah! Is this semantics. No! There is no revelation in the Hebrew scriptures of a “christ” being a deliverer. Neither is this “christ” an embodiment of the nation of Israel’s history that produced the Messiah.

        This is a sticky situation and our minds need deliverance from the false influences. I don’t tell you this to convince you, but, if you are born from above (John 3 KJV), just as Jerry S. exhorts, I also want to encourage you to search the scriptures and research the history and language used so that God can minister His Truth to you. Only the Truth, received by faith, can make us free and transform our walk with God.

        Grace, Peace and Truth are in Yeshua Ha Maschiah,

        Dee

      • Hey Jerry S,

        I have been asked by someone on BLB’s blogs to give concrete examples when I make seemingly sweeping statements about apostasy in christianity, (I guess the scripture isn’t enough to stimulate revelation to the mind), such as this one in my reply to Robert Rosenthal comment to your comments on the 9/14 Hebrews blog, He said, “‘Christian’ means ‘A believer in Christ’….”.

        I replied, “That is a Webster’s dictionary definition, not the scripture. Your definition is unclear and the Greek word Christos is still untranslated and made into the English word Christ. …So what is the big deal? This English translation not only communicates an incorrect understanding of the Holy Spirits Greek words christos (anointing or to smear), but it obscures the Holy Spirit’s revelation of the…Messiah to us from the scriptures. A person would have to explain its meaning, saying Christ means anointed or Messiah and all the prophesied implications–Jesus is God, the Son of God. Remember, Christianity is a gentile religion….Is this semantics. No!” (See this scripture, 1 Corinthians 2:13 KJV)

        So, the Holy Spirit gave me another good example for all believers to ask Him about, and people whose natural and carnal minds and imaginations may not be enlightened as they read the scriptures without the Holy Spirit.

        The Jehovah’s Witnesses, although they do not claim they are “christians”, DO use christian theological doctrine to twist and insert their doctrines of demons, among other heretics. They claim that “Christ” is the arch angel Michael. (Imagine that!) But anyone reading Jude 1:9 KJV, would know that Michael is not Jesus the Messiah, the King and Lord, who has Satan under His feet because Jesus continually rebukes Satan, as seen in the gospels and Revelations!

        The JW’s can do this because “Christ” is not translated from the Greek as Messiah, as it should be, and gentile believers, for the most part, have been kept ignorant of this. Otherwise, why would we be refuting a dictionary definition? Would the JW’s say that the Messiah was the arch angel Michael in the face of Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV, and other chapters about the Messiah not being an angel, and try to prove it, if it read Messiah instead of Christ? I know not! Especially since they will not find the word “christ” in the Hebrew “Old Testament” Scriptures. So is the issue against “Christ” (Messiah)as unenlightened folks will say, or is it against christianity’s historical attempts to obscure the meaning of the nation of Israel’s roots in Jesus? Yes, He was a Jew, but there is so much more than that in the prophecies and promises of the Messiah to the nation of Israel.

        Believers, remember this truth and refute the lie with it; preach the truth and co-labor with God to call His elect ekklesia, as the Holy Ghost leads. But don’t let the JW’s into your house; they work to deceive and you may be confused! (2 John 1:10-11 KJV) By the way, I didn’t say it, they is not my words!

        For your information: The JW’s claim that as of 2009, they have 7,313,173 (that’s 7 million!) people in 236 lands, with 276,233 having been being baptized into that heresy, and 7,619,270 bible studies! That’s a lot of gentiles (and Jews). People would rather believe that “christ” is an angel rather than God. When I stayed in France for 4 months last year, almost every 10th person who declares a “religion” was Jehovah’s Witness.

        Let’s get understanding according to scripture, Saints, and we will not be fooled or confused, able to stand strong! Just exhorting and edifying once again! 🙂

        Grace and Peace,

        Dee

  3. There have been exclusive memberships, guilds, code languages and keepers of ancient truths with humans throughout what is known of history. Rev 3:19-22, Jhn 4:35-38, Gal 3:25-29 Our Creator will complete the expression of His purpose to create man in His image and likeness. Biblically the revelation of human being has been pre-recorded. True enlightenment is startling, a foreboding realized in a headlong plunge snapping the cord of complacency. The bible is the book of human creation. The end of time, the end of human creation is declared in the last book of the bible. Biblical passages relating to conditions at the end of time were too fabulous for many to believe until the arrival of our modern era. Human being is in the creation process, the opportunity for emergence of spirit from the ordeal of flesh and death. This absolutely is a personal process. Creation is occurring right now in our very lives. The answer to the philosopher’s quest is knowable. Choice is the meaning of life.

    • Hi Bob,

      I have a few questions and observations.

      You said: “The bible is the book of human creation.”

      It is true the scripture “contains” the origin of God’s creation of man, but it is much more than that. It is how we know God’s will, plan and purpose for His new creation, the New Heaven, New Earth and New Jerusalem by His Son Jesus. Hebrews 1:1-2. Here is one of many concise descriptions in God’s own words by the Holy Spirit:

      Col 1:12-20 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God,…For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,…all things were created by him, and for him:…he is before all things, and by him all things consist….that in all [things] he might have the preeminence….For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

      You also said: “The end of time, the end of human creation is declared in the last book of the bible.”

      Do you mean that the book of Revelations declares the end of human beings? Can you give a scripture reference for that?

      Please refer to 2 Cor 5:17-18; Romans 8:21.

      Can you explain what you mean by “Human being is in the creation process,”

      Bob, you also said “Biblical passages relating to conditions at the end of time were too fabulous for many to believe until the arrival of our modern era.”

      I don’t believe your view lines up with what God teaches us about the spiritual man and the natural man in the scripture. Believing has nothing to do with the modern era. Why do you think the modern era makes a difference? Maybe you can take a look at these verses and see what you get out of them:

      1Cr 2:11-14 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God….which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

      Finally, you said: “the opportunity for emergence of spirit from the ordeal of flesh and death….”, and “This absolutely is a personal process. Creation is occurring right now in our very lives. The answer to the philosopher’s quest is knowable. Choice is the meaning of life.”

      In light of the scriptures in the bible, can you explain what you mean by these observations. I am not sure, but based on your words, are you saying that man will emerge as a spirit being without flesh, meaning without a body? Does He have a choice in making his personal creation? What do you see as the “knowable philosopher’s quest”? Do you believe Jesus when He says that life is in Himself. (John 5:39-40; John 14:6) The scriptures tell us that that is the answer to anyone’s seeking. We know that life is in Jesus.

      Grace and peace,

      Dee

  5. Jerry,
    In Galatians 3:28 the apostle Paul writes “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
    In Colosians 3:11 he also writes”Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.”
    All who are saved in this present age are saved the same way.
    (Acts 4:12; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:9-10)

    • Thank you for the reply. I don’t believe I wrote anything to the contrary of the verses you reference, so I do not know if you are agreeing with me or taking issue. I will respond if you do have questions.
      J.

  6. Jerry…I like your question simply because it prods thought forcing one to settle the dust. Do “we” believe a certain way because it was taught from a pulpit or do we know from study.

    So, this being a very important weekend a group of us are gathering to celebrate…but I will ponder and get back to ya.

    Have a great day.

  7. Jerry,

    I agree with what I believe is your implication: the book of Hebrews was written specifically to Jewish believers. It was written by a Jew with apostolic authority, and not specifically to gentile believers, although all believers are included in its exhortation and teaching through the work of the Messiah Jesus. Its purpose is to reveal the reality of the Messiah’s divine ministry and God’s salvation as depicted in the shadows and types of all the law, so-called and divided into moral, ceremonial and sacrificial by religion. Gentiles didn’t know that stuff, didn’t care to know it and were not required to know it, having just newly turned from heathenism to a living God! See Acts 15.

    I had a conversation with a christian who told me that christian circles see Jewish christians as being “completed Jews” , or some Jewish christians call themselves a Messianic Jews. I told her I thought those terms were offensive, arrogant and disparaging and not referenced or reflected anywhere in the scriptures. It is gentiles who have been brought into the New Covenant of Grace, grafted in; not the other way around! In 2 Cor 10:7, Paul is talking to gentiles about the authenticity of Jews in Jesus first!

    I talked this out with Father God very early yesterday morning. Actually, I chuckled and said to God that if anyone is to be called a “completed Jew”, it is a gentile believer, who is now a seed of Abraham through the Messiah, and grafted in by God’s grace. The Holy Spirit spoke the following scriptures to my mind in comment to my discussion with the Father. (The KJV is just my preference and He related the scriptures to my preference! Not a divine endorsement of KJV. LOL!)

    Romans 10:11-13 KJV:
    For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Romans 11:25 KJV:
    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    I believe the HS gave me the first scripture first because it shows God’s purpose through Jesus’ ministry in bringing many sons to glory (Heb 2:10; 1 Peter 2:9; Rev 1:6 KJV). The New Covenant is Jehovah’s promises to the Hebrew Fathers, prophesied in Jeremiah 31, and is being fulfilled and will be completed after the time of the Gentiles is fully come in. God will never abandon the nation of Israel!

    The second scripture He gave was a revelation to me that His plan and purpose included the religious system built around the work of His Son through the arrogance of gentile believers. Those are strong words which admonishes the gentiles not to be “wise in their own conceit”; also helped by anti-Messiah deceivers, both Jew and gentile (1 Tim 4:1, 1 John 2:19) The goal: to try and thwart God’s ultimate will of a New Heaven, a new earth and a New Jerusalem, the Throne of God. This development is part of His plan and we should not be frustrated, which I am sometimes!! Even then it was building (2 Tim 4:3, 1 John 2:21-22). I am sure you have other scriptures.

    That religion, gentile-based, built upon pagan traditions, vain platonic philosophy, intellectual sophistry and hypocrisy, confessions of creeds, bible idolatry, and yes, doctrines of devils, is christianity. The goal of christianity is to make more christians globally, make a better world and build a kingdom for “christ”. Being truly born again (from above, John 3) is not a criteria for membership in most christian organizations since they are very much in and of the world (2 Timothy 4:3; Rev 1-3 KJV).

    So, Jerry, the answer to your question, “does a Hebrew need to become a Christian in order to follow the Hebrew Messiah?”, according to scripture, is a resounding NO. Just as gentiles were not required to become culturally Jewish (Acts 15). The reason is because following the Messiah is not a religion based on culture or laws. It is based on the faith of Jesus the Messiah. It is spiritual, not natural. Born again believers are led, and organized, by the Spirit of God!

    The scripture shows that all Jews who turned to Jesus the Messiah for salvation from the wages of sin were called saints, believers, followers of the Way or followers of the Messiah. Gentile believers were called the same. King Agrippa was almost persuaded to become a follower of the Messiah, not the inserted word–christian! (Please read the context of the conversation in Acts 26.) The word christian is an untranslated Greek word meaning “followers of Christ”, which word “Christ” is still untranslated! The untranslated word doesn’t have a foundation anywhere in scripture or a relationship to the prophecies of the Messiah. The real translation is “followers of the Messiah” or the Anointed. But I guess some of the English translators forgot to do that? Huh.

    After more than 1900 years, the system has become entrenched in the world through its aggressive evangelistic programs, making converts like Jewish proselytizing (Mat 23:15 KJV), perfecting its apostasy. (As someone who travels regularly in the world, I have experienced the disdain towards American christianity, especially in Israel. It is all so amazing to see global christian groups and books comparing the christian religion to other religions like Islam or Buddhism in a point by point refutation.) By AD 90, Jesus gave a revelation to His surviving apostle John revealing the depths of that apostasy among His “churches” and the religion’s complicity with satanic doctrines and his synagogue (a Jewish assembly) Rev 2:9; 3:9.

    But God is so very gracious and long suffering while He orchestrates His plan, waiting for all those He has called to come in. It is the work of Jesus’ body (ekklesia, “church”) to preach the gospel of grace to draw in His elect. Because it is the preaching of the Good News of the Grace of God through the Messiah that is the power of God unto salvation, to the Jew First and to the gentile! (Rom 1:16; 1 Cor 1:18, 24; 1 Cor 2:5) We are also to train up believers to come into full maturity not using vain christian theology, but using sound scriptural doctrine (which is not Replacement theology!); and to give and to do good, to the household of faith especially. (Eph 4; Gal 6:10 KJV)

    Not everyone in that religious system, or that names themselves christian, are corrupt or don’t know and love the Lord Jesus, the living God. (Rev 1-3) God has His elect saints, born from above and called out by Him from the world (ekklesia). There is an ekklesia (church?) without spot or wrinkle. As we spend time with the Lord in His word, we can see that something is not only wrong with that “system”, but wicked, full of hypocrisy and idolatry. There is and has been attempts by some to distance themselves from the overt actions of the religion, to make distinctions between “this kind of christian and that kind”. But there is a cost to going “outside the camp” to be where Jesus is” and to be persecuted for Jesus’ sake. (Hebrews 13:12-14 KJV) All the values of the satanic world systems, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and particularly the pride of life (1 John 2:15-17 KJV), we must learn, by the Holy Spirit, to manage and forfeit and be transformed by renewing of our minds. (Romans 12 1-3; Ephesians 6:10-18; 2 Cor 10:1-7). Renewing the mind is a daily cross; it is a dying to our will and it is painful. (Romans 6:8-12 KJV)

    1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    I know many people know this but I had a need to write it down, again in the context of this blog on Hebrews!

    Grace and peace is in Jesus the Messiah,

    Dee

      • Hey Jerry,

        I am pleased to see that I understood you, and others, correctly. It is very easy to read into what people say and then argue from your own thoughts. Unfortunately, I am long winded. LOL!

        You know what caught my attention in this blog is that Chris P didn’t put any of Hebrews scriptural revelation of the Old Testament shadows, types and foretelling of the Messiah in his commentary. He picked over the pieces essential to understanding God’s perspective, and picked out quiet little platitudes suitable for framing. How do you do a teaching from Hebrews without including at least a little “already been chewed” meat?

        This Hebrew blog is a good example of the light, fluffy, unedifying stuff christians are fed. But, giving Chris the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wrote it this way to stimulate conversation.

        Christians are just given very little sincere milk, which milk must be pulled from the Hebrew scriptures. None of this makes for seeing God’s perspective, will and ways. For example, why can we come boldly to the throne of Grace with a clean conscience seeking grace, and be heard? Why is the blood of Jesus important to Father God? What is the besetting sin that can keep us from entering into God’s rest? And there is only one!

        If one is going to teach and exhort from the book of Hebrews, you must do what the Holy Spirit did by the apostle. This is why christians are still babes, worldly and carnal, caught up in the thousands in ministries like Joel Osteen, and many others. Many have been trained up on the prosperity, faith and healing gospels and cannot stand any persecution for Jesus’ sake. Their evidence of having the favor of God is do they have a new car or house or clothes regularly. Most of today’s christians can not discern the truth. So called mature christians are babes and carnal, teaching for doctrine the traditions of men, rocked with scandal and vice. If you wonder why I say most and many, take a look at christianity today, (not the magazine, but yes! the magazine).

        Many true believers are without understanding because their teachers have failed them!! (Hebrews 5:12-14 KJV)

        Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

        Hbr 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

        God is sorting this all out! (Hebrews 10:31 KJV) it is a fearful thing to fall in to the hands of a living God!

        Grace and peace,

        Dee

    • Dee~

      You do bring some valuable insights into Scripture, but there are some of your comments that I think are in error, and I would like to comment on them.

      You wrote, “That religion, gentile-based, built upon pagan traditions, vain platonic philosophy, intellectual sophistry and hypocrisy, confessions of creeds, bible idolatry, and yes, doctrines of devils, is Christianity.” Although you threw in a disclaimer that “Not everyone in that religious system, or that names themselves Christian [sic], are corrupt or don’t know and love the Lord Jesus, the living God,” your wholesale condemnation of Christianity is virtually lacking both truth and love (Eph. 4:15). In addition, because it is nothing more than sophisticated name-calling with no solid examples given as evidence, your argument is also fallacious. I agree that the body of Christ is not where it needs to be. I think it is very weak, both in biblical knowledge and spiritual growth, and I believe that there are going to be many people, if there isn’t a radical change in how things are done, who will not be where they need to be with the Lord when the time comes. However, to say that the “system” can be defined as “wicked, full of hypocrisy and idolatry” is not true. Can you give some examples in support of your claim, please?

      You also wrote, “There is an ekklesia (church?) without spot or wrinkle,” but this doesn’t agree with Scripture. II Peter 3:14 says, “Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.” We are also told in Ephesians 5:26-27, “That [Christ] might sanctify and cleanse [the church] with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” In other words, the ekklesia is not presently “without spot or wrinkle” but must be cleansed in order to become so to ready herself for Christ’s coming.

      You wrote, “We are also to train up believers to come into full maturity not using vain christian theology, but using sound scriptural doctrine (which is not Replacement theology!).” By “vain christian [sic] theology,” are you referring to the idea of replacement theology that you mentioned? I would appreciate some clarification because, if you are, this indicates that your perspective of Christianity is distorted.

      You wrote, “It is the work of Jesus’ body (ekklesia, “church”) to preach the gospel of grace to draw in His elect.” I could be wrong, so all I am asking for is clarification because your phrasing sounds like one of the five points of Calvinism, that people are either the elect of God, or they are not. We know from Scripture (e.g. Jn. 3:16, II Pet. 3:9, Rev. 3:20) that all people can be saved if they answer God’s call upon their lives and not because the church “[draws] in His elect.”

      Thank you!
      Barbara

      • Hi Barbara,

        Thanks for your comments and insights. I will respond to you here. I am sorry but it is a little lengthy because I want to be clear. I hope everyone will read it. Since we are after the truth of the doctrine of God and life in Jesus, if I see that I have been corrected by the intent of the scripture in context, I will acknowledge it and repent.

        You wrote from my comment: “‘…That religion, gentile-based, built upon pagan traditions, vain platonic philosophy, intellectual sophistry and hypocrisy, confessions of creeds, bible idolatry, and yes, doctrines of devils, is Christianity.’ Although you threw in a disclaimer that ‘Not everyone in that religious system, or that names themselves Christian [sic], are corrupt or don’t know and love the Lord Jesus, the living God,’…”

        The history of the development of Christianity as a religion is a matter of public history. I wrote nothing that is not true. Some of the “Christian fathers” used Plato and other pagan philosophers as the basis for their world view in theology, such as Augustine’s views of man’s body and soul and what man is. We know that modern day Christianity, both catholic and protestant versions, are built up from the nominal believer Constantine (was he really born again?) views, which “theological system” allowed pagan (not born again) elders, members and heathen traditions to be set in the assemblies, creating mixture and confusion of doctrine. We know the the Nicene Counsel’s (AD 325+) ratified this as true “christianity”. (James 1:26-27 KJV, The word religion means worship to God.) Again, this information is public and too comprehensive to deal with here. Please do a study for edification. As we come down through the history of the Christian “church”, we see reformers like Luther, for example, who challenged heretic doctrines with the scriptural truth of living by faith, but left the systems intact. For example, Luther was not against “indulgences” in the catholic system, only how they were used! And what about his views on the doctrine of purgatory?

        You say I threw in a “disclaimer”. Actually, all Christians are not born from above, but those that are saints, have not all been corrupted by heresy and apostasy.(Hebrews 10:38-39 KJV) It is not my disclaimer. Read Rev 1-3 where the Lord talks about those who have and have not succumbed to the wickedness of the doctrines in the system. Yes! Wickedness! Not my words. Have you seen Christian TV? What about the major, global, mega wealthy program representing Christianity that has a replica of Jesus and Jerusalem in Florida? Can you say “idolatry”? Jews will run for the hills! You that have ears to hear, hear what the Spirit is saying to the ekklesia! That is the Alpha and Omega’s command to those who have been given ears to hear: Mat 13:11; 21:43; Mark 4:24; Luke 8:10.

        (2 Tim 3:1-7 KJV) Verse 7 is an apt description of the sorry state of many Christians and nominal or new untaught believers. It is the revelation by the apostles that I base what I see. I don’t pray for the system which is infiltrated with the world. I don’t pray for the world. (John 17:9, see context) I pray for the saints!! And so should you! Here is what Paul says about today’s days, right now. And this could be seen as the lighter stuff:

        1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;…”

        You wrote: “your wholesale condemnation of Christianity is virtually lacking both truth and love (Eph. 4:15)…”

        Yes, I do see Christianity, a contrived non-spiritual system of religion containing individual groups with twisted scriptural doctrines, laws and mixtures of cultural gentile traditions, as the basis for the apostasy that has been here, is here, and will usher in the last days tribulations by the anti-Messiah. Whereas Christianity (I guess its the protestant part) says it is Catholicism that is the apostasy! The saving grace from God is that born from above believers caught up in the system must go to the scriptures that are “talked about”, and spend time with the Living God to have the truth of God’s thoughts and ways ministered to them. There is no other way to come out from under the influence of the apostasy and heretical doctrines like “Kingdom of God” and “Replacement Theology”, and follow the Holy Spirit. I was caught up in those, and the prosperity, healing and faith gospel heresies at one time or another until delivered by Jesus. He wanted me to learn it and repudiate it. I will not go into these “gospels” on this blog. So, no, I am not talking about the true people of God in a “wholesale condemnation” that you have interpreted. I love the people of God, by the Spirit of God in me, shown by my love for the truth given to me by God. I believe God and walk by His faith. The Holy Spirit makes this real and will continue to do so until I go home. Sometimes I am frightened, in my flesh, for the people still caught like flies in a trap trying to make sense of it all and get free, but I know in my spiritual mind that God has this all under control and His elect will rule and reign as heirs and joint heirs with Jesus!

        If you want to see an example of truth “IN” love read Jude 1-25. Jude says: Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

        Quoting you, “…You also wrote, “There is an ekklesia (church?) without spot or wrinkle,” but this doesn’t agree with Scripture….”

        Actually, it does, and it exists both here on earth and in heaven! (Hebrews 12:23) Jesus said the plan of God was finished. Spiritually, God’s children have all the heavenly blessings now. (Eph 1:3 KJV) We may not see the completion manifested on earth yet, but you can trust God that it is finished, done, and we are working it out by His Spirit. And so, there is an ekklesia that has no spot or wrinkle or any such thing, right now. I, and true born from above saints, am a part of it, according to Paul’s gospel! I put a question mark at the word church because that translated English word (in Spanish it is iglesia), is so far from the meaning of the underlying Greek word and idea given by the Holy Spirit, that most Christians are not taught to see and walk in its spiritual truth. The connectedness of the body of Jesus the Messiah is ONLY by the Spirit of God indwelling the believer. I say most, in case you take issue, because look at the “church” today with all of its denominations split along fleshly “theological” lines, and confusion, which God is not the author of. Why is that do you think? The doctrine of God’s ekklesia has been so twisted that even the world embraces church!–church of satan, church of witches, church filled with unbelievers, social churches, churches based on other religions, church of the Simpsons, etc., etc!

        Finally, you wrote based on my comment: “…You wrote, ‘It is the work of Jesus’ body (ekklesia, “church”) to preach the gospel of grace to draw in His elect.’ I could be wrong, so all I am asking for is clarification because your phrasing sounds like one of the five points of Calvinism, that people are either the elect of God, or they are not.”

        See, Barbara, I do understand your perspective, but it is this kind of stuff Christians are trained to do–to follow the doctrines of men, somebody’s take on the scriptures, grouped around who you think is more charismatic on TV, and sold in an expensive book or CD set! (Right here I must give an Amen to Steve Morrow for his verses!)

        I do not follow Calvin. I follow Jesus the Messiah (who Christianity calls Christ), and the doctrine of God, as you should do! I desire Father God’s perspective, His thoughts and ways, from the scriptures, whose truths are revealed to my spirit and my mind by the Holy Spirit. I don’t do this perfectly because my fleshly mind fights against the Spirit, and gets in the way, causing error. (1 Corinthians 3:19 KJV) If any man chooses to speak what is plainly the perspective of God, I embrace God’s perspective, not the man’s, and say Amen to the man. God speaks about His elect–Jews and believers, sons, saints, children, all over all the scriptures and explains EXACTLY what He means by elect! There are too many scriptures to list. Do a study on the word elect and pray. You can read into the scriptures whatever you like to refute what God says. You can slide on that slippery Calvinism vs Arminism vs New Covenantism slope all that your mind enjoys to do. But, you will miss God. (John 1:12-13 KJV; Romans 1:16 KJV)

        Grace, Peace and Life is in Jesus the Messiah,

        Dee

        • Dee~

          I have somewhere to go tonight, so I can’t get anything posted today, but I will have something tomorrow.

          Barbara

        • Dee~

          Thank you for responding. I agree with what you wrote about Catholicism, Constantine, the Nicene Creed, and I know that even Luther had his problems, but I don’t agree that your assessment of Christianity as a whole is valid. As to your comment that “Some of the “Christian fathers” used Plato and other pagan philosophers as the basis for their world view in theology, …,” I disagree. In the first place, the “Christian fathers” were Paul, Matthew, Barnabas, Timothy, John, Peter, etc., and they were faithful to God’s Word. That “some” other men arose during the early years and falsely called themselves Christian should not be used as conclusive proof that “Christianity” is somehow all the negative things you’ve stated. Secondly, you wrote, “Whereas Christianity (I guess its the protestant part) says it is Catholicism that is the apostasy!” Unfortunately, there are far too many believers who view Catholics as Christian when they are not, but to address your concern, Catholics cannot “apostatize.” To apostatize (apostasia, Strong’s G646) means to fall away, to defect, and obviously, one cannot defect from something (e.g. Christianity) that one has never been a part of, so it matters not that a group of men “ratified” their beliefs in Nicaea. I marvel that the very people who claim to know so much about Christianity that they can condemn it are usually the very ones who go straight for Constantine, the Catholic Church, and Nicaea as their touchstones. My point here is, if you can’t discern what Christianity isn’t, then how can you speak on what Christianity is?

          You wrote, “Actually, all Christians are not born from above, but those that are saints, have not all been corrupted by heresy and apostasy.(Hebrews 10:38-39 KJV).” Dee, by definition, all Christians ARE born from above; that’s what makes them Christian. Yes, there are people who call themselves Christian who aren’t, but this is not the same argument. By “mega wealthy program representing Christianity,” I assume you mean TBN, and let me say here that I do not believe for one minute that Paul and Jan Crouch are walking with the Lord, and I pray that their hearts will be open to the Holy Spirit’s conviction. I also agree with you that much of their programming is wicked, and unfortunately, there are many evangelists on their network who are biblically sound but have not separated themselves from the spiritual works of darkness. I’ve never been to the Holy Land Experience, so I haven’t seen “a replica of Jesus and Jerusalem.” What, exactly, do you consider idolatrous about this?

          Truly, there is a lot of confusion and splits within groups that call themselves Christian, and truly there are many other groups who use the word “church” that have nothing to do with Christ. Is this not one of the signs of the end of times, that the spirit of anti-Christ will become increasingly prevalent? Does this mean that there are no denominations that are Christian? No. Does it mean that there can’t be two different denominations or even two non-denominational groups that may have differing views on secondary issues but that agree on the foundational doctrines of salvation? No. The bottom line is that we are each responsible to know the Word (II Tim. 2:15) and to be doers of the Word (Ja. 1:22). That there are groups and people who use the word “church” means nothing in the scope of things. As I wrote in an earlier post, if the phrase in use was “The Way” or “Followers of the Messiah,” then there would be counterfeit people and groups using those phrases just as there are counterfeits using the word “church.”

          That there are false Christian denominations and false prophets and teachers in Christian denominations and on Christian TV isn’t news; it was all prophesied. However, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t true Christianity today because false prophets and false teachers were right there alongside the early church, too (II Pet. 2:1). In addition to this, Christ said that nothing would prevail over His church (Matt. 16:18). The one big error I see in your reasoning is that you make generalizations about Christianity without giving any concrete evidence. For example, you wrote, “Yes, I do see Christianity, a contrived non-spiritual system of religion containing individual groups with twisted scriptural doctrines, laws and mixtures of cultural gentile traditions, as the basis for the apostasy….” While you do accept that there may be some individuals who are true followers of Christ, you take issue about their being true Christian denominations (“groups”); however, you offer no evidence in support of that claim. Can you give some examples by which you can rightly condemn all groups that call themselves Christian rather than just condemn them? To narrow it down for you, I attend a Baptist church, and except for this denomination’s belief in ‘eternal security,’ which is not scriptural, I have never seen or heard anything that can even come close to warranting the scathing assessment that you have put forth, so please give examples for the “twisted scriptural doctrines,” “laws,” and “”mixtures of cultural gentile traditions” in the Baptist denomination, and I will address them.

          I would also appreciate it if you would just address what I wrote rather than throw in a red- herring argument, disguised as an answer, about what “Christians are trained to do.” In addition, I neither said nor implied that you “[followed] Calvin” but referenced his belief as a starting point of common understanding. I was asking for clarification because you had written that “It is the work of Jesus’ body (ekklesia, “church”) to preach the gospel of grace to draw in His elect,” suggesting that some people, as Calvin believed, were predestined to heaven and needed only be awakened to their saved state, which is very much implied in your phrase “to draw in His elect.” If you would like to respond to my question without telling me that “this is the kind of stuff Christians are trained to do-to follow the doctrines of men, somebody’s take on the scriptures, grouped around who you think is more charismatic on TV, and sold in an expensive book or CD set,” please do so but quit trying to verbally bully me about knowing my “perspective” and all the rest so that you can reach the conclusion that everyone is wrong but you. If you would like to provide an example of the “kind of stuff” to which you are referring, I will address it.

          Regarding my disagreement about your statement “There is an ekklesia (church?) without spot or wrinkle,” you wrote, “Actually, it does, and it exists both here on earth and in heaven! (Hebrews 12:23) Jesus said the plan of God was finished. Spiritually, God’s children have all the heavenly blessings now. (Eph 1:3 KJV) We may not see the completion manifested on earth yet, but you can trust God that it is finished, done, and we are working it out by His Spirit. And so, there is an ekklesia that has no spot or wrinkle or any such thing, right now.” There seems to be a mixing of certain biblical ideas here. Yes, it is true that Christ’s finished work on the cross provided both the opportunity of salvation as well as the spiritual blessings that are in the heavenly places so that believers may become perfected through sanctification, but this is a far cry from what your assertion, that you are presently “without spot or wrinkle.” As we know, we are not to proof text to formulate doctrine but to take into account all relevant verses (II Tim. 3:16). This being the case, then, how do you reconcile your supposed “perfection” in light of the two verses that I cited (Eph. 5:26-27, II Pet. 3:14) because they both contradict what you are saying? In addition, how do you reconcile your claim that you don’t sin, which is what perfection is, with I John 2:1 which says we do?: “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous”? It is true that believers have been found justified in God’s sight through their acceptance of Christ’s blood on their behalf, but their sanctification, their cleansing from all unclean things, is a process as they crucify their flesh, allowing for the things of the Spirit.
          You wrote, “I don’t pray for the system which is infiltrated with the world. I don’t pray for the world. (John 17:9, see context) I pray for the saints!!” Let me begin by saying that just because Jesus didn’t specifically pray for the world in this chapter doesn’t mean He didn’t pray for it at all. Was it not a prayer for the world when He hung on the cross and said, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” (Lk. 23:24b)? Have we also not been commanded to “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mk. 16:15b)? From these verses alone, we can see that the world was and is very important to Jesus, so much so that He actually died for it (Jn. 3:16), so please tell me how you align your statement with Jesus and the written Word?

          I have tried to address the exact concerns and verses that you cited, and I would appreciate the same so that we stay focused. I pray that as we seek the truth of God’s Word that our hearts and minds will be open to the Spirit’s leading.

          Thank you~
          Barbara

          • Hi Barbara,

            I can appreciate the time it took you to put your thoughts down. However many of your questions and requests for comment I have addressed in several different places throughout the blog days. Please search them out if you want to know my understanding.

            Perhaps you should discuss some of these issues with your pastor or bible study leader, such as who is considered the early “christian or church fathers” by Christianity. I am not trying to convince you or anyone of anything. Like many, I express my understanding of scripture and God’s perspective of His plan and purpose, gained through prayer and study. My understanding that the modern day Christian religion has been rapidly falling away from the doctrine of God into apostasy is clear to me based on scriptural foundational doctrine, prayer, the state of Christianity and its influence in the world.

            I did not intend to offend you by stating that Christianity encourages Christians to follow doctrines of men. My intention was to show that despite Paul’s rebuke in the scripture against these carnal practices (1 Cor 1:11-13 KJV), this practice was still being encouraged through christian denominational “groupings” and gathering around “personalities”, and has grown to gigantic proportions, having totally ignored the apostles’ teachings.

            Finally, Barbara, I encourage you to do a serious study review of your teaching on the church having replaced Israel (Replacement theology), as you taught on this blog. You have based your teaching on a misunderstanding of the scriptures, some of them I indicated in explaining the error. You may want to discuss this with your pastor as well.

            Grace and Peace,

            Dee

          • Dee~

            I did take some time to write my response, and it matters not that you answered them in “different places” because you brought up many concerns, mostly accusations, in your post to me. Therefore, it is a reasonable assumption that you would respond to me and not suggest that I go searching all your other comments or discuss things with my pastor to find your answers. That you say that I believe in replacement theology only proves that you don’t know my perspective and that you don’t understand what I have written despite your comments to the contrary. In addition to this, I know full well who many Christian pastors refer to when they speak of the “Christian fathers.” I was just making a point; however, this doesn’t necessarily mean that what is being taught in today’s churches is wrong, which is the point you were making, so you should be able to give concrete evidence rather than just deliver general rhetoric. In other words, your premises mean nothing if not supported.

            This blog designed to promote dialogue between believers, either on the spiritual offering that is posted each day or on other topics related to the Bible. When someone posts something, other readers have the option of commenting or not, and nowhere is it written that there has to be an ongoing dialogue until every point is finally settled. However, it is a matter of courtesy, to use your word, that when someone actively engages someone else in a dialogue with the understanding that there will be, at least for a time, some or several return responses addressing what has been written that both parties honor this agreement. I responded to your posts because I think your theology is wrong, beginning, as I have written, with your wholesale condemnation of Christianity about which you wrote in your September 15 letter to Jerry. As you can see from my last post, in addition to an explanation, I gave scriptural proof to counter each point you brought up. Now, I understand that you may not agree with what I have written and that is fine, but your refusal to even address my comments to the accusations that you, yourself, made about me and other believers peppered with some patronizing advice only illustrates that you are unable to address what I have written. If I am wrong, then you should have no trouble showing me with proper answers and biblical support.

            Barbara

  8. I am not able to fully reply at the moment but will give thourough reasoning later or you may read my book. What is the purpose of resurrection? Why is the final victory over death? The deathless are not concerned with time. Why should christians not eat drink and be merry for tommorrow we die? Are not the legalists too entangled with precision to listen to our savior’s knock, His purpose?

  9. Rev 10:6-7 Why are we to lay up treasure in heaven? The veil of this flesh and all the angst at that moment will pass.

  10. Scriptures are sometimes known superficially in that a meaning is missed with an earlier too familiar assumption before the Holy Ghost imparts understanding. Some have said that we were patterned after Jesus’ physical body since we were predestined, conformed to the image of His Son. Is the physical body really the image of God? Is God both male and female then as others have said or is sex merely a physical condition of this world? In Genesis 5:2 male and female are noted as, “Adam” and “Mankind”. Creation is the purpose for each life. Choice is opportunity that delivers or discounts the image of God. In the bungling, embarrassments and dirt of our common lives, the wisdom of God accomplishes the profound act of creation in His Image.
    1Cr 13:9-12
    Gal 4:1 Now I say, [That] the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
    Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
    Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
    1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    1Cr 15:42-58, Luk 12:4-5, Mat 22:30, Mar 12:24-25, Rev 4:8, 2Cr 5:1-11
    We know the extremity that is to be like Jesus
    Mat 16:24, Mar 8:34, Luk 9:23, 1Th 4:16-18

    The completion of human creation in the image of God arrives by declaration of 2 angels in the last book of the bible.

    Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
    Rev 10:7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

  11. Now the extremity that is to be like Jesus comes into focus. Are we made according to the physical body of Jesus? Or are we to be among those predestined to conform to the image of obedience that ultimately transforms flesh and death into the resurrection or transformation of/into the spiritual body that God has intended all along, the body that does not die?
    Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: He hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see Him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire Him.
    Rom 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    Jhn 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
    Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
    Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    Rev 1:17-19, Rev 22:1-3, Rev 22:6-16

  12. Hi Bob,

    Let’s look at what the scriptures say concerning some of your observations and questions! You asked the questions but didn’t provide answers, so let’s do that from the scriptures:

    A. “…Is the physical body really the image of God?…the wisdom of God accomplishes the profound act of creation in His Image.”

    1. God is Spirit; He is not “a” spirit like one of the created angels. (John 4:24 – NOTE: The KJV translators erroneously added an “a”. How do we know its wrong? Compare the scriptures!) (Isa 42:5; Rev 4:ll, KJV) Jehovah God is the Almighty God, the Alpha and Omega (Gen 17:1, Exodus 6:3; Rev 1:7,8; 19:5) There is nothing that existed before Him. He created all things out of nothing, including spirits. To worship God, a human being must do it from his own quickened spirit according to the truth of the scriptural revelation of God. (See NOTE: John 4:24 KJV)

    2. God made man in His image (likeness, modeled after), (Gen 1:26), and since God is not soul and not body, the image or likeness of God is spirit. And in this case, “a spirit” is appropriate since man’s spirit was created to resemble God’s Spirit. The word for God (Gen 1:1) is a plural word, Elohim.)

    3. God took the dust of the earth in His hands (Spirit hands!!) and fashioned, formed, shaped, man’s body from that dust. He fashioned the female body by taking and shaping the rib of the man of dust (Gen 2:22). When a man dies, his body disintegrates back into dust (Gen 3:19 KJV).

    4. The uniqueness of man as God’s creation is so apparent. He is a creature God can reason with! (Isa 1:18) When God breathed in to the man’s body of dust (Gen 2:7), a living soul which was fashioned, created, ahead of time, (Eze 18:4) was breathed in as companion to the already existing created spirit (Heb 12:9; John 20:22). God breathed in the spirit. How do we know this? Well God doesn’t tell us how else He formed, procreated, or birthed the spirit of each man, except to say
    that the spirit existed before the man’s body was formed!! (Zechariah 12:1; Jeremiah 1:5; Heb 12:9) The work of the creation of man is finished after God breathed the breath of lives into Adam’s nostrils. Interestingly, the Hebrew word translated life here (Gen 2:7) and in other verses (Gen 2:9; 3:14; 17:7, 15, etc), is actually a plural, masculine form of life meaning “lives”, breath of lives (chayyayim)!! You must look in a Lexicon and see how it is spelled to see its plurality. It is hidden in the BLB definition otherwise.

    5. It appears that man only has a body and soul in the Genesis verses, but God progressively revealed that man is tripartite and has a body, soul and spirit. (Proverbs 20:27; 1 Thess 5:23) Those theologians building their theology on Plato and Aristotle philosophy, just like the worldly psychologist, will only see a body and soul with unconscious ids and egos.

    6. God only made man in His image, not the other living creatures (Gen 1:24-25), but He did form them from the ground
    and breathed life into them (Gen 2:19). Hence, living earthly creatures have souls but not spirits. Anyone can see that animals have intelligences at differing levels.

    So Bob, NO, the physical body is not the image of God, even though God may refer to body and soul parts in relating meaning and revelation to man. Even the body of Christ is used in that way.

    B. You asked, “Is God both male and female then as others have said….”

    God is the creator of everything. (Gen 1:1; Isa 42:5; 45:12KJV). Based on the logic producing that question, one
    could say since God created them both, then God has both male and female in Him. But, based on that vain logic, God also must be the beasts of the field, ants, dogs, birds, flowers, etc., since they came out from Him also. That thinking is the philosophical basis of Pantheism–which says God is everything and everything is God. However, God is not everything, He is the creator of everything, everything came out from Him for His pleasure. (Isa 45:18 KJV) Do you see the vanity and foolishness of man’s logic when it is not based in God’s scriptural revelation?

    C. You asked “….or is sex merely a physical condition of this world?”

    If by sex you mean sexual relations in marriage, it is earth bound! (Matt 22:29, 30; Mark 12:24, 25) Here, Jesus is talking about relationships will be just like the angels, not their “spiritual being”. Children of God get bodies like the glorified Jesus, immortal and incorruptible. But it appears that the distinction of male and female remains intact after receiving an immortal spiritual body in the resurrection. Jesus said He had the same features and characteristics in His glorified spiritual body that were in His natural body, and the disciples recognized Him. (Luke 24:36-43) (He must have gone home and cleaned up some! LOL!) Paul talks about neither male nor female distinction but one in Christ, here on the earth. (Gal 3:28-29 KJV) It is obvious he meant no distinctions in a spiritual, body of Messiah (church?), one new man, members of the body context because, well, there are males and females in Jesus Christ on the earth.

    There were other things I had questions but I have no idea how to ask them, seeing what you wrote is kind of vague and mystical!

    I hope what I have been able to pick out is helpful to you. Please get back to me if you have questions and comments.

    Grace and peace is in Jesus – He is the Way.

    Dee

  13. Proverbs 30:6
    Do not add to HIS words
    Or HE will rebuke you and prove you a liar

    Jeremiah 26:2
    Thus saith the LORD
    Stand in the court of the LORDS house and speak unto all the cities of Judah which come to worship in the LORDS house
    ALL THE WORDS THAT I COMMAND THEE TO SPEAK UNTO THEM
    ——–DIMINISH NOT A WORD———

    Acts 5:20
    Go stand and speak in the temple all the words of this life

    Hebrews 13:8
    JESUS CHRIST the same yesterday and today and forever

    Revelation 22:18&19
    For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophesie of this book
    —IF ANY MAN—shall add unto these things—GOD— shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
    (19)—AND IF ANY MAN—shall take away from the words of the book of this prophesie GOD shall take away his part out of the book of life and out of the holy city and from the things which are written in this book

    Hebrews 10:38
    NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH —BUT IF ANY MAN—DRAW BACK
    MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM

    Hebrews 10:39
    —BUT—we are not of them who draw back unto perdition
    —BUT—of them that believe unto the saving of the soul

    John 5:34
    —BUT—I receive not testimony from man
    —BUT—these things I say that you might be saved

    John 14:15
    IF you love ME keep MY commandments

    Proverbs 18:2
    A fool finds no pleasure in understanding
    But delights in airing his own opinions

    Exodus 20:20
    And Moses said unto the people
    Fear not for GOD is come to prove you
    And that HIS fear may be before your faces
    That you sin not

    1 Peter 4:1&2
    Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh
    Arm yourselves likewise with the same —MIND—
    For he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin
    (2)That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men —BUT TO THE WILL OF GOD—

    Deuteronomy 8:2
    And thou shalt remember all the —WAY— which the LORD THY GOD led thee these forty years in the wilderness —TO HUMBLE THEE—
    —AND TO PROVE THEE— to know what was in thine heart
    Whether thou wouldest keep HIS commandments or no

    Psalm 26:2
    Examine me O LORD and —PROVE ME—
    Try my reins and my heart

    2 Corinthians 13:5-7
    Examine yourselves whether you be in the faith
    Prove your own selves know you not your own selves
    how that JESUS CHRIST is in you except you be reprobates
    (6)But I trust that you shall know that we are not reprobates
    (7) Now I pray to —GOD THAT YOU DO NO EVIL—not that we should appear approved But that you should –DO– that which is honest though we be as reprobates

    1 Corinthians 13:8
    —FOR WE CAN DO NOTHING AGAINST THE TRUTH BUT FOR THE TRUTH—

    Psalm 40:4
    Blessed is the man that maketh the LORD his trust
    AND RESPECTETH NOT THE PROUD
    NOR SUCH AS TURN ASIDE TO LIES

    Psalm 101:3
    I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes
    I hate the work of them that turn aside
    it sahll not cleave to me

    Psalm 125:5
    As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways
    The LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity
    But peace shall be upon Israel

    Ephesians 1:13
    In whom you also trusted
    AFTER YOU HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION
    in whom also after that believed you were sealed with that
    HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE

    John 6:63
    It is the spirit that quickeneth
    the flesh profiteth nothing
    The words that —I SPEAK—unto you
    THEY ARE SPIRIT
    AND THEY ARE LIFE

    John 8:31
    —IF YOU CONTINUE— IN MY WORD THEN ARE YOU MY VERY DISCIPLES INDEED

    Romans 2:7
    TO THEM WHO BY —PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN WELL DOING— SEEK FOR GLORY AND HONOR AND IMMORTALITY—-ETERNAL LIFE—

    John 6:68
    Then Simon Peter answered HIM
    LORD to whom shall we go
    THOU HAST THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE

    John 15:10
    —IF YOU KEEP—MY COMANDMENTS you shall abide in MY love
    even as I have kept MY FATHERS commandments
    and abide in HIS love

    Colossians 1:22
    In the body of HIS flesh through death to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in HIS sight

    Colossians 1:23
    —IF YOU CONTINUE— in the faith grounded and settled
    And be not moved away from —THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL—
    which you have heard and which was —PREACHED—to every creature which is under heaven
    Whereof I Paul am made a minister

    1 Corinthians 15:1&2
    Moreover brethren I declare unto you —THE GOSPEL—WHICH I PREACHED UNTO YOU— which also you have received and wherein
    you stand

    (2)BY WHICH YOU ARE ALSO SAVED
    —IF YOU KEEP IN MEMORY WHAT I PREACHED UNTO YOU—
    unless you have believed in vain

    2 Corinthians 4:3&4
    But if our —GOSPEL BE HID—it is hid to them that are lost
    (4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
    LEST —THE LIGHT OF THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF CHRIST—
    who IS THE IMAGE OF god SHOULD SHINE UNTO THEM

    Psalm 119:130
    The entrance of THY words —GIVETH LIGHT—
    —IT GIVETH—understanding unto the simple

    Mark 1:14&15
    Now after that John was put in prison JESUS came into Galilee
    —PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD—
    (15)And saying
    THE TIME IS FULFILLED AND THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND
    REPENT YE AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL

    1 Timothy 1:9&10
    Knowing this that the law is not made for a righteous man
    But for the —LAWLESS AND DISOBEDIENT—for the ungodly and for sinners for unholy and profane for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers for manslayers
    (10)For whoremongers for them that defile themselves with
    mankind for menstealers for liars for perjured persons
    AND IF THERE BE ANY THING THAT IS CONTRARY TO SOUND DOCTRINE

    1 Timothy 1:11
    ACCORDING TO —THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL— OF THE BLESSED GOD—
    which was committed to my trust

    1 Thessalonians 2:4
    But as we were allowed of GOD to be put in trust with—THE GOSPEL—
    —EVEN SO WE SPEAK—NOT AS PLEASING MEN BUT GOD—
    WHICH TRIETH OUR HEARTS

    LOVING THE LORD

  14. The evident sophistication of these discussions should allow that scriptures distinctly refer to spirit, not soul, in many places without reviewing multiple instances. I present concepts less than complete in order to convey enough taste for reasoning to determine, deduce the intent within the constrictions of this forum. I am not intentionally vague to appear mystical.

    There is the body. There is the Spirit. Now that the body has been identified in scripture with our discussion the Spirit should also come into review. “Let’s look at what the scriptures say concerning some of your observations and questions! You asked the questions but didn’t provide answers, so let’s do that from the scriptures:”

    Gen 2:7 then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature

    Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    Jhn 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
    Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
    Luk 4:18,

    Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
    Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
    Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
    Jhn 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
    Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
    Jhn 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
    Jhn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

    Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

    Luk 24:13-32, Luk 16:22-23, Rev 15:4-8

    Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.
    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

  15. The opportunity of our lives and all of human creation is to prepare for, and then choose to believe God and receive the Holy Spirit. Without choice there would be no judgment. God emphasized the price of blood and sacrifice with skins to cover Adam and Eve. God reaffirmed atonement and sacrifice by accepting the offering of Able but not the fruit of the ground offered by Cain. God testified of Jesus with the sacrificial lamb and the Passover Lamb. God promised the Messiah, Jesus.

    God confirmed Jesus by the words that He spoke and the works that He did. Jhn 6:63, Jhn 10:37-38, Jhn 14:10-11, God testified of Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. Jesus declared:
    Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    Jhn 12:23-33

    The apostles were filled with the Holy Ghost, prayed and expected that others would also receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:17, Acts 10:47, Acts 19:2

    1Cr 15:35-58

    Tragically, so few come to know God. Peace Brethren

  16. 1 Peter 1:23
    Being born again not of corruptible seed
    —BUT— OF INCORRUPTIBLE—BY THE WORD OF GOD—-
    WHICH LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOREVER

    Mark 8:35
    For —WHOSOEVER— will save his life shall lose it
    —BUT—WHOSOEVER shall lose his life for—MY SAKE AND THE GOSPELS— the same shall save it

    Isaiah 11:1
    And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse
    And a branch shall grow out of his roots

    Isaiah 11:2
    And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon HIM
    The spirit of wisdom and understanding
    The spirit of counsel and might
    The spirit of knowledge and of the fear of THE LORD

    Isaiah 53:11
    He shall see the travail of HIS SOUL
    And shall be satisfied
    By—HIS KNOWLEDGE— shall MY RIGHTEOUS SERVANT-JUSTIFY- many
    For HE shall bear their iniquities

    LOVING THE LORD

  17. To All BLB Bloggers,

    I wrote something in a comment to Jerry S. that, after thinking and praying about it, I now repent of this view and don’t think it is true. (Romans 11:25). Speaking about gentile believers, particularly first century believers, learning the doctrines of God as presented in Hebrews, I said:

    “Gentiles didn’t know that stuff, didn’t care to know it and were not required to know it, having just newly turned from heathenism to a living God!”

    I reviewed the book of Hebrews, especially the “context” of the scriptures Chris P picked out, and specifically Hebrews 6:1-6 again, (also Heb 1:1-2, Acts 10:34-48; 15:14-20, 28-29, 35). A key question which came to my mind was how did they turn from heathenism to the Living God, or develop reverential fear? Based on what? My thinking didn’t appear to be consistently scriptural.

    Is it possible to know Jesus, believe and have life in Him, be born again, from above (John 3:3-7; 1 Peter 1:23; John 5:39-40) and receive the Holy Spirit without knowing the scriptures, the promises of God to those of faith and the nation of Israel?

    What is the gospel of Grace?

    Speaking to the Samaritan at the well, who are considered heathen by the Jews, Jesus said: John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

    What did He mean by this? What are some of your thoughts generally, and especially from Hebrews?

    Grace and Peace,

    Dee

    • Since you mention me, I’ll respond and try to reply to your questions in order with my thoughts on the matter.

      “how did they turn from heathenism to the Living God, or develop reverential fear? Based on what?”

      – Overview, Gen 3:15 the first promise of justice and deliverance was made to the “nations” (gentiles, goyim). I am speaking in general terms and in relation to the nation Israel and yes, I understand there were no nations until Gen 11:8. Point being, nations (mankind) was aware of GOD (of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) from the beginning.

      – Specifically, Act 13:13-52 notice who was in the regular attendance of the assembly as mentioned in Act 13:16-52. Point being, the GOD of the Hebrews was known to and followed by the “nations” prior to Act 10.

      “without knowing the scriptures, the promises of God to those of faith and the nation of Israel?”. – Yes, Yeshua is the only Judge worthy to open the scroll, Rev 5:7.

      “What is the gospel of Grace?” – The word “gospel” is a loaded word and is a bad translation. There is no “gospel of grace” or “doctrine of grace” specifically stated as such in the scripture. The principle, character, attribute of GOD is though. Any “doctrine” derived from these is allegorical interpretation.

      “Ye worship ye know not what” – the Samaritans where a mixed race of Jews and gentiles. They new some of what they needed to know and filled in the rest, sound familiar?

      J.

  18. Hi Jerry,

    Thanks for your comments. I am surprised, though, that no one else weighed in! Yes, your last comment about filling in does sound familiar and is what human minds do to the word and perspective of God.

    I have 2 comments. First, your comment about “no ‘gospel of grace’ or ‘doctrine of grace specifically stated as such in the scripture…”, I don’t believe is scripturally correct. (Rom 6:17 KJV; Rom 16:17 KJV; 2Tim 3:16 KJV; 4:3 KJV)

    The word doctrine, in both the Hebrew (Isa 28:9; Jer 10:8 KJV) and the Greek, mean teaching or teachings, and instruction. At least the translators got that right! LOL!

    The word “gospel” is another word that has been untranslated from an Old English word (like church) which means glad tidings or good news. The Greek word underlying it also means good news. I agree that the word is a loaded word. Christianity, especially in its seminarian systems, has turned the activity of evangelizing the “gospel” into the objective goal, rather than emphasizing the good news revealed in what God in His sovereignty has done. I also see the twisted meanings by zealous Christians (2 Peter 3:16 KJV) and the world. (Rom 1:1 KJV) Unfortunately, what is extremely confusing now is that Christians and unscrupulous persons can make the “gospel” to be any doctrine or interpretation of scripture they want it to be, i.e., gospel of faith, gospel of prosperity, gospel of Christian Reconstruction, gospel of the “kingdom of God”, etc.

    My point is that there is a good news of God’s Son! (Rom 1:9 KJV) God considers His doctrine or teaching foundational to starting (Romans 10:9-10; 12; 14-15 KJV) and continuing in Jesus’ Life on this earth by faith. And the teaching of the good news of God’s Son, of the gospel of grace, and gospel of peace (Rom 10:15), and gospel of God and gospel of the Messiah (2 Cor 10:14 KJV), all the same, will establish us according to the Jewish apostle Paul’s gospel received directly from the Glorified Messiah (Rom 2:16; 15:16; 16:25 KJV; Philippians 3:5 KJV).

    Secondly, you said “Point being, nations (mankind) was aware of GOD (of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) from the beginning….”, and this is true, although the nations in general, did not follow Jehovah God (Acts 10:35 KJV), and He wiped out a lot of the wicked nations throughout the history of the nation of Israel!

    But my question concerned turning to the Messiah without the the hearing of who He is, and I don’t believe anyone can repent or believe without hearing some word of the history of God’s nation. That nation which produced the Messiah, and the prophesied good news of God’s grace and peace through the sacrifice of the Messiah His Son, being preached, to the Jew first and the gentile. When I say word, I don’t mean go up front and hear fluffy lies like “repeat after me and let Jesus into your heart and you will be saved”. How many of those stick?

    The gospel of the Messiah must be received spiritually by revelation first (Matthew 16:15-17 KJV), not naturally in the mind. Besides this, I don’t think there is a specific order of justification. God does what He wants if we preach the gospel. Peter heard it from Father God, and received it in his spirit by faith, (newly recreated at that time), but he didn’t understand what he said until he later received the Holy Spirit (John 20:29 KJV) and learned from the Holy Spirit. Peter’s preaching to Cornelius was pretty comprehensive, (Acts 10:36-43 KJV),(and not long winded), and they were saved where they stood, and filled with the Holy Spirit! Paul’s gospel is also comprehensive (1 Cor 15:1-8; 11 KJV).

    Even so, we gentiles (and Jews also), after hearing and receiving the truth by faith (Romans 10:17 KJV), can only understand the good news in the context of nonredeemable, total human depravity and God’s grace by His Son Jesus, taught by the Holy Spirit. Messiah was the Deliverer who God prepared from before the foundation of the earth for His elect’s redemption, the need revealed in the total fall of humanity and the history of the nation of Israel.

    This is what the book of Hebrews does in giving us the spiritual meaning of God’s plan! It shows us God’s thinking and sovereign fixing of the problem!

    Also Jerry, I think about my own born again experience of salvation. Back then, I was an atheist and communist gentile, bent on the doctrine of the annihilation of Israel. I did not grow up in church and I didn’t know about Jesus. I did not hear the good news in a church but at a business convention with a Sunday ministry tacked on the end. When I think of all that God did to maneuver me to finally go to one of those meetings to hear the guest preacher, I fall at His feet! And the preacher went into the Old Testament to show who Jesus was! So did Paul and the other preachers/teachers so that the gentiles could know the grace in which they stood.

    Thanks for listening! Here is my email if you, or anyone, wants to share more: dbhomeoffice@yahoo.com. I want to hear people’s views, experiences and questions, and I also have questions and much to share. I don’t think these blogs are a forum for long discussions, and may even scare people away from fellowshipping.

    Grace and peace,

    Dee

    • You are a prolific writer and I appreciate your love for the LORD. Your two comments –

      1) What I mean is the specific words written as such, “Doctrine of Grace”, “Gospel of Grace” can not be found in scripture. You wrote, “can make the “gospel” to be any doctrine or interpretation of scripture they want it to be, i.e., gospel of faith, gospel of prosperity, gospel of Christian Reconstruction, gospel of the “kingdom of God”, etc.”. This is just where I’m heading with what I write.

      2) Jesus will judge fairly whether the Good News was told to someone or not, HE knows us better than we know ourselves and will judge our heart accordingly (my thoughts, not scripture).

      Praise Yeshua for all HE has done!

      J.

  19. *sigh* I am a young believer, who so desperately wants to follow the Lord in perfection. Alas, i do fall short, ALL THE TIME. My spirit cringes while my flesh rejoices, or vice versa. Reading this full blog and list of commentary, I recognize even more than I ever have that there is a need to study, and show ones self approved. Please, PLEASE pray for me, that I might walk in his fullness, be brought to maturity, and used to stand in TRUTH. I don’t subscribe to the “american” way of christianity, however I have been brought up in it and have seen many of its flaws. Nonetheless my desire is to go, to train, to learn as Timothy did under Paul, then RETURN, and preach the truth through non-conventional. I make this post in faith. My God KNOWS my heart. He knows my desires. I place my faith in him hoping there will be change, hoping a new way will be made.

    • Hi Benjamin,

      You read all this stuff? Good for you! I see you have entered into the joy of the Lord. The neat thing about that is that Jesus prays for you (Hebrews 7:25; Romans 8:34 KJV), and the Holy Spirit prays for you also (Romans 8:26-27 KJV) Talk to Father God about this help that He gives us new and not so new believers! He will answer you and lead you into all His truth.

      If you have been born from above (Read John 3), you have entered into a walk with the Living God, whose only criteria is that you walk with Him by faith in who His Son Jesus is. Start there. You can learn who Jesus is by reading the gospel of John. Read all verses in the context of verses surrounding it so you will not be deceived in your thinking. Don’t let anyone, no matter who they are or their position, try to teach you to be or do anything apart from the grace of God.

      Relax and enjoy the abundant life in Jesus. If you could do anything about your sinful wickedness, you wouldn’t need God’s righteousness. (Isa 64:6 KJV) Jesus is Life. (John 5:39-40 KJV.

      Below, I am going to repeat a post I just did pointing out a christian doctrine that is false. Please spend the time, as a study, to read and pray about this. You will either confirm or deny the truth of this for yourself.

      Grace and Peace is in Jesus the Messiah,

      Dee

  20. To Barbara Lefevre,

    I am answering this again here because I think it is a key issue and I don’t want it to get lost in the discussions above.

    Barbara,

    You said, “Jesus was a Torah-observant Jew who fulfilled…all the righteous requirements of the Law…in order to make way for a new and better covenant by which those who call upon His name become grafted into the spiritual house of Israel as the children of God and church…”

    That is erroneous Christian doctrine that can not be supported by the scriptures. Jewish believers were already a part of the body through faith in the Messiah. The book of Hebrews was written specifically to existing Jewish believers to exhort and strengthen them in the faith. Peter, James and John were already the apostles to the Jews (Gal 2:7-9).

    Romans 9-11 does not teach that Jews become a part of the body of “Christ and the church” by being grafted in! The broken off branches of the olive tree, and the grafted in wild olive branch (Romans 11:13-17 KJV) refer to the NATION of Israel (Jer 11:16-17) and believers (Roman 9:24-25 KJV) called out from gentile nations, respectively. Paul is revealing the mystery (Romans 11:25 KJV) as it relates to 1) the prophesied New Covenant in Jer 31:31-33; 33:15-16 KJV), 2) Israel’s being grafted back in again, and 3) the gentile’s tenuous role in it. It refers to the restoration of the Nation of Israel under that New Covenant. (Hosea 13:9-10, 14) Also see Matthews 24, Rev 6, 7) It is gentiles that are grafted into the New Covenant, not the other way around, which is why individual gentiles from nations around the world can be called to be part of the body of Christ.

    Paul, warning gentile believers against vain conceits and arrogance, says: (Rom 11:26-28 KJV) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

    Jesus the Messiah is the fulfillment of that New Covenant. He is the Son of God who fulfilled all the righteous law, not just a “Torah-observant Jew” as you say. The 27 books of the so-called Christian New Testament bible reveal the doctrine and spiritual application through Jesus as the New Covenant, to both the nation of Israel (The 4 Gospels), and believers (Jew and Gentile) called by God into the body of Christ, as revealed by Paul. 2 separate things. Communion is done in remembrance of His blood which ratified the New Covenant which Jesus celebrated with both Jews (Luke 2:20 KJV) and gentiles (1Corinthans 11:23-25 KJV)

    Why is this important? Because it shows the faithfulness of Jehovah God who will always keep His promises (Hebrews 11:1 KJV, and many, many other declarations), especially to the Hebrew Fathers. No matter how the christian doctrines slice it, the Nation of Israel has separate and distinct promises from God. They are not swallowed up and replaced by the “church”, as you have just preached here, Barbara. He will never abandon Israel. It is “silliness” to think He would.

    Christians must read the scriptures for themselves and pray, not just accept some theologian’s teachings.

    Grace, Peace, Truth and the Love of God are in the Messiah,

    Dee