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Praying for the Fullness of the Spirit

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The following is Friday’s entry in the Day By Day By Grace devotional by Bob Hoekstra, available at the BLB (online free) and now in print edition.

That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height—toknow the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
(Ephesians 3:16-19)

For those who are wondering how to be filled with the Spirit, the prayer in Ephesians 3 offers excellent insight. The precise relevance of this passage for our present subject is obvious, when the concluding purpose of the prayer is noted:”that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.”

The opening phrases use the language of grace: “That He would grant you,according to the riches of His glory.” Grace is about God at work, giving us blessings we cannot deserve. These blessings are in proportion to His glorious spiritual riches. This perspective fits our studies on the Spirit perfectly, because when the Holy Spirit is at work, He pours out God’s grace.

The initial request pertains to an inner working of the Spirit: “to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man.” Note, this request is made on behalf of those who already have the Spirit residing in their hearts. The specific issue is about receiving new measures of spiritual power at the core of our being.

The desired result of this work of the Spirit is “that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.” Jesus is present in the heart of every believer. Here, He is being asked to settle down fully and make Himself at home. Jesus is to be given free rein to rearrange our innermost being to fit His good pleasure. Allowing Jesus to rule our hearts requires the empowering work of the Holy Spirit to break past spiritual obstacles such as apathy, fear, self-focus, and temptations. To allow Jesus to lead us in His way, we need the Holy Spirit enabling us to stay in God’s word, to pray without ceasing, to worship daily, and to fellowship regularly.

Then, as Jesus rearranges our inner life, He wants to anchor every aspect of our lives in God’s love: “that you, being rooted and grounded in love.” With this, He wants us to experience the dimensions of His love, which are beyond mere head knowledge: “to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height-to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge.” This Holy Spirit process is always leading to more spiritual fullness: “that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.”

Dear Father in heaven, I humbly cry out to You every word of this majestic prayer. I earnestly desire the reality of its every implication, all by your Holy Spirit, Amen.

Comments

  2. I really saw this part of scripture recently…what is the width, length, depth, and height of His love? Will we ever know?
    He prays that we will know. Wow!

  3. Just sent my son a text to pray for the Holy Spirit to guide and lead him in his daily reading of the Word during his recovery from auto accident. Thanks to Jesus!

  4. This is such a powerful prayer; we should speak it out loud regularly. The amazing thing I learned this week is from Kenneth Hagin that we can have (and we will get) what we say.

  5. Chris,

    I agree the baptism of the Holy Spirit infilling us does
    allow Jesus to lead us in His way like you wrote.

    It was through His Bapitism first of water and then of Spirit that I was able to begin to understand His word as ALIVE, LIVING and through the Holy Spirits help, guidiance, and prompting I have been able to grow, learn, understand, and how walk in the fullness of the power that Christ promised us we would receive when He went to Our Father. Greater things than these you shall do……

    I also agree we need the Holy Spirit enabling us to stay in God’s word, to pray without ceasing, to worship daily, and to fellowship regularly. To perform warfare, deliverence, service, and continue the good fight.

    He Is my Helper, Smelter, Teacher,and Comforter. He is bringing me into ALL Truth and ALL Strength in Chirst.

    I know without His help I personally would have never made it through the muck and mire I had to crawl through to find Fathers Love and continue to Seek His face Daily. He has taught me to Love and what Love really is!!!

    Father “YHWH” I want to Thank you for Jesus. Jesus I want to thank you for asking the Father to send the Holy Spirit to help me worship in Spirit and Truth !!! All the Glory be To GOD

    Your Child
    Donna

    • P.S. I ask for His Fresh Oil and more of Him as Often as He brings it to mind…. I want to be so full He Flows out overflowing…. :)The light of Christ shining beyond me so they only see Him

    • The holy Spirit that Jesus send to us is the One that always help us or reminding to WORSHIP Elohim=God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit: in the TRUTH or accordingly with the TRUTH. QUESTION arrived what is the TRUTH? Answer the LAW OF GOD IS THE TRUTH Psalm 119:142. From Sabbath to Sabbath all flesh should WORSHIP ELOHIM ISAIAH 66:23 Just like what Jesus did when He living among man and this kind of worship is what they called worshipping in TRUTH because this Sabbath worshipping is the only Sabbath that according to the TRUTH or according to the WORD OF GOD tCOMMANDMENTS OF GOD to make a d

    • Re,
      The more He fills you with His light, and washing of the Word Daily, the more the darkness disolves. Where there is just a glimmer of Light there can no longer be darkness iight has become Dawn…. The Dawn of a new day on a new creation.

      Self control and the laying down of ones anger is hard, trust me I know.
      I had to really press in the word and choose Love instead.

      I had to be delivered of, hate, anger and unforgiveness for things and people before I could get there also. I dont know your circumstances but I know what anger can do.

      Keep praying he deliver you as He did me and he’s not a respecter of man, that he would do for me what he wouldn’t for you if you ask.

      He sent me help and I layed it down at the cross and work daily to never pick it back up. Remember its probably the spirit revealing things you need to let go, that’s part of His job as our helper….

      Be blessed and may the Love of Christ abound you.Remember LOVE CONQUERS ALL and His Grace & Mercy always outways our imperfections and self control issues if we have a pure heart.

      Donna

  7. Isn’t the filling of the spirit attained through the classic 3 conditions that were outlined by Lewis Sperry Chafer. Grieve not the Spirit. Quench not the Spirit, and walk in the Spirit? I was always taught this and see this Pauline prayer as intercessory in scope. Sounds like you are teaching a Luke 11:11 approach…..

    • Thanks for the post Tim. I’ll check out Lewis Sperry Chafer. I don’t think I’ve ever read anything of his. God bless you! 🙂

  8. The filling is better described in acts Act 8:15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. Act 8:16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    Act 8:17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. The filling of the Spirit does not come accident, nor by works, but by asking Luk 11:13 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

    We need to understand what God has Given us, and believe. Christ already dwelled in their hearts, so what Paul was saying was that they would recognize it. It states that Christ dwells in our hearts by faith. We tend to go by feelings rather than by faith. If we knew what Christ has done, and lived by that, then we would know Eph 3:18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what [is] the width and length and depth and height–
    Pauls prayer is more that they would know what they have, more than what God would give them that they don’t have. Eph 3:19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
    It’s all about what you know.

    • I too agree we MUST Walk by Faith not sight…Our Eyes decieve us. I am learning to bring everything into the obedience of Christ over what I might think.

  9. The holy Spirit is the One will guide us to walk in the truth that is why Jesus said if you love Me keep My commandments and if you read Revelation 22:14 BLESSED are they that do His commandments that they may have RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY crystal clear obedience to the truth doctrines of God is important and BLESSINGS TO ENTER NEW Jerusalem and have eternal life and also have the righ to eat the fruit of life

  10. Truly it is a wonderful blessing to know the indwelling Spirit present within you.

    It is by Him, God’s Holy Spirit alone that one comes into the knowledge of all truth and this is in the Lord Jesus Christ. John 14:16

    Thank you Chris for this teaching.

    Donna Sharp raises an important doctrine that should be obeyed by all who wish to walk in the fullness of God’s Holy Spirit. This is the baptism of water.

    Scripture teaches us that some received the baptism of the Holy Spirit first and the bapstim of water followed. The apostle Paul is one example. Acts 9:17 would point us to Paul receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. In Acts 9:18 Paul promptly goes and gets baptized in water identifying with the Lord Jesus in His death but also very importantly also in His resurrected life. Colossians 2:12-13.

    Until we walk identifying with the Lord Jesus in His resurrected life, we lack in our faith of the power (working) of God who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead.

    More important than any religious custom is the heart fully committed to obeying the Lord Jesus’ commands. Though baptism in water may show external obedience to God it also shows an inner contriteness of heart.

    God’s Spirit will rest mightily on those who walk contrite and humble in spirit. Isaiah 66:2

    Let us seek to obey all the Lord’s commands including the ordinance brought by John the baptist for baptism in water.

    The apostle Peter commanded baptism in water of the gentiles Acts 10:44-48 (and interestingly the Holy Spirit had batpized the gentiles first).

    If it is good for the apostle Peter to command a baptism in water, if it is good for the apostle Paul to promptly be baptized in water following being filled by the Holy Spirit, and if it is good for Jesus Christ Himself to be batpized in water in order to fulfill all righteousness and then for the Holy Spirit to descend upon Him Matthew 3:15-16,…

    … then let all who seek to identify in the Lord Jesus’ death and resurrection and who wish to walk indwelt and filled by God’s Spirit obey this simple command.

    Thanks Donna for your sharing

    Blessings in Christ
    Mark Hayes
    NZ

    • Wayne and Mark Hayes you recognize essential elements involved with the wondrous gift of the Spirit of God. The sequence of these elements is not consistent in scripture (works) yet they comprise evidence of conformity with the Spirit of God; as Mark Hayes notes in Isaiah. The Spirit of God, the will of God acts for His purposes. Peter, Nicodemus and Simon emphasize this.

      Mat 16:23, Mar 8:33, Luk 4:8, Jhn 3, Act 8:15-24

      The Spirit of God as described by our Lord.

      Jhn 5:19-20, Jhn 14:10

      • Were you referring to Mark when speaking about works and sequence, because if you were referring to my commits, there is nothing in them about that.

  11. We have been studying the Person of the Holy Spirit at our local church, so I find the timing of this devotional another out pouring of God’s grace. It seems the more we desire to surrender our hearts completely to God, the more Satan tries to defeat us with our own minds. I am going to pray this prayer everyday until it becomes a reality in my life. Thanks for sharing it!

  12. I pray for the fullness of the Holy Spirit!!!! and I also pray for Knnowledge I beleive inthe the the fulness of the the Holy spirit and
    i want mt walk with him togrow

  13. I think Acts 8 is a wonderful example of what is being talked about here.

    There is an intellectual belief and acceptance of Christ that leads to an intellectual conversion and man can in earnest do this but without a belief with all your heart and acceptance of Christ as Lord intellectually AND within your heart that conversion will not save you. It is belief and acceptance with your heart that brings the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It can happen immediately upon baptism, before your baptized, or many years after you’ve made the brain acceptance. But unless the heart conversion is made you remain as you were before and even in greater danger as is what happened to Simon Magus when he believed, was baptized and then attempted to purchase the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He knew full well and accepted that Christ was Lord, he outwardly confessed and was baptized, however his heart was not right. His yearning was for the power.

    Matthew Henry has a wonderful commentary on these chapters. Although I think Matthew Henry allegorizes too much I get some great insight from his commentaries.

    I’m not threw studying up on it. I was originally wondering why Phillip was caught up after he baptized the Eunuch. Is that a forshadowing of the rapture (harpazo) of the church? Matthew Henry’s opinion seems to be that Phillip as a minister of the Gospel was no longer needed since the Eunuch made a true conversion so therefore the Spirit of the Lord (my words) picked him up and put him back on his way preaching the Good News. Once the Holy Spirit indwells us we will pick-up the rightful job of following him whether or not there is a minister to guide us. The Holy Spirit does that. I’m not meaning of course that ministers are not used and helpful to the church but that their primary function should be real (heart) conversion vs intellectual (head) conversion.

    • Tess~

      Although your comments about when and why a person is baptized in the Holy Spirit may sound reasonable, they, unfortunately, do not agree with Scripture. The reason is that there is no such thing as a “conversion” that is merely “intellectual,” one that exists without a “belief with all your heart.” The two must coexist simultaneously for there to be a conversion. Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Because there is nothing in the heart that wasn’t first in the mind (“intellectual”), we can understand that if a person confesses Jesus as Lord (the action), then it dwelt first in the mind and then went secondly to the heart before the action was manifest. In other words, no action, including “conversion,” can happen by bypassing the heart. Another example of intellectual belief acting alone is discussed in James 2:19, which says, “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” We see, then, that one possessing merely “head” or “facts” knowledge, “intellectual” knowledge, is likened to what the demons possess, so this cannot be understood as any type of “conversion” at all as I’m sure you’ll agree.

      Secondly, because, by definition, conversion means both an intellectual and heart belief, we can understand that Simon the sorcerer couldn’t have had merely an “intellectual conversion” at all because there is no such thing. In addition, we are told in Acts 8:13 that he “believed” (pisteuo, Strong’s G4100), meaning “marking entrance into a state…, I became a believer, a Christian, [A.V. believed].” Scripture doesn’t tell us how much time passed before Simon was born again and when he attempted to buy the power of the Holy Spirit, only that he “continued with Peter” (v. 13b). The only other thing that we are told is that Peter told him to repent of his wickedness (v. 22) which indicates that he was saved or else Peter would have given him the salvation message.

      With all due respect, we need to be careful about making judgments about where one’s heart is or isn’t with the Lord based upon whether one has been baptized with the Holy Spirit. I’ve been saved for 20 years, and although I will admit that there was little crucifying of the flesh for the first 15 years, I know exactly where my mind and heart have been for the last five, how I have died to myself, how the Lord has witnessed to me through His Word, and how He has worked in and through me, and I haven’t been baptized with the Holy Spirit. To say that I will “remain as [I] was before and even in greater danger” is to make unfounded presumptions upon Scripture and me, so I hope that you will reconsider how you have arrived at your conclusions.

      Have a blessed day~
      Barbara

      • Thanks Barbara,
        I think Acts 8:14-25 is pretty clear.

        What I’m confused about is that you think you haven’t been baptized with the Holy Spirit?

        • If I might add here; in scripture there was always a clear sign that someone was filled (acts 2, acts 8:18, acts 10:46, acts 19:6). It is always by grace and all you have to do is ask and believe. Luk 11:13 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

          • Wayne~

            Thank you for your comments. The verses you gave do seem to indicate that there was a very clear sign. That’s what leads me to believe that I haven’t received it although I have asked many times. As to the last verse, could this just refer to receiving the wisdom, comfort, guidance, conviction, and help from the Holy Spirit and not a specific baptism? I ask because I receive these things all the time.

            God bless you~
            Barbara

        • Barbara and Tess, I started to reply last night but the Spirit stopped me twice 🙂 Wow How His infilling Helps me specifically.

          However I now know why, His study with me this morning is called. “Led to see the purpose on Gods call on your life”. He gave me exactly what I wanted to say last night but this morning he gave me the scripture for you and Barbara so that like Jesus I would only speak the words my father gave me.

          Its all about being equiped for our individual specific calling. Tess, think on this Bob a couple blogs ago referred to our Witnessing. We spread the LOVE OF GOD, Barb you also but very differently.

          See Acts 1:8
          but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

          We go out and we witness EVERYWHERE ALL DAY, Tess correct me if I am wrong here.

          We must be equiped to walk in the Supernatural Power of the Holy Spirit because we encounter the non believers, the sick, the afflicted, the completely blind and lost.

          I never seek them but the LORD brings across my paths constantly. He crosses my path with many who Love God but have gotten caught up in Law and the Performance based Grace thats out there, which doesn’t work. So they are bound up.

          I help Him set them free with my testimonies, as I know Tess does also, just a guess Tess 🙂

          So for me the Baptism of the Holy Spirit happened before my Water Baptism while I was dancing around a fire at a Native American/Pentecostal/Messianic Jewish Celebration with absolutely no clue what I was asking for when I prayed Father have your Spirit fall on me with Fire.

          “BOOM” it happened He Fell on Me and in an instant I was a thousand degrees, I promise I glowed 🙂

          Trust me the rest of the night was wild as well, supernaturally I mean, but I needed that.

          But the Truth is GOD’s Spirit Met me There and became one with me….in me…upon me.

          Then on Fathers day the next morning we all went down to the river and I was Baptised with Water and when I came up EVERYTHING was different including Me.

          I was truly a new creation, in a group of really lost people that Loved God incrediably.

          The Holy Spirit cleansed me over the last 4 1/2 years testing me like gold at 1800+ degress, purifing my soul in order to serve the purpose I was created for.

          Much Like Tess, she was not an “ALIVE” Christian until she became “ALIVE” with Her Holy Spirit Baptism. He made Her to need that.

          Now He has brought and is bringing us into our callings, our purpose.

          Romans 8:29-30 Covers it for me and maybe Tess also

          For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

          Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

          We are now equiped for the Calling He called us for, not because of who we are but because of who He is and His Grace.

          His infilling and outpouring equips me daily with All I need to perform the Purpose for the Day at Hand.

          We each have very specific calling and are equiped by our Father, the “Great I AM” to perform them. All of us who Love Him have all we need, or will when He chooses to give the Revelation and Wisdom to Understand who He is.

          I get a little more understanding of my Purpose with each step in Faith I take, each day I let the Spirit of God Lead me.I gain insite as I go.

          Be Blessed
          Your Sis Donna

          • Donna~

            Thank you for your response. I have a few questions:

            ~What, exactly, do you mean by your comment, “We spread the LOVE OF GOD, Barb you also but very differently”? What is the point of the distinction that you are trying to make? I ask because no distinction should be made on how God uses individuals for His kingdom purposes.

            ~What brought you together with the specific groups you mentioned (Native American/Pentecostal/ Messianic Jews). Were the Native Americans saved? What, exactly, was the reason that you started dancing around the fire? I don’t mean this to sound insulting. The reality of the times in which we are living is that there is a great ecumenical push leading to the yoking together of spiritually incompatible groups for the sake of unity.

            ~One of the reasons that causes me to doubt a second baptism is that I attended a Pentecostal church for years, and that was my only experience of a denomination that believes that it happens. Sadly, what causes me to question the truthfulness of that baptism is that they also believe in being slain in the spirit, and that is not a biblical practice, so if they are so wrong on one doctrine, then I have to at least question whether they are wrong on the other.

            ~The sequence in Romans 8:29-30 does explain God’s plan for those believers who continue to walk with Him, to those who continue to love Him (v. 28), but what does it have to do with being baptized in the Holy Spirit? I realize that He equips each believer for the works that He has prepared before the foundation of the world (Eph. 2:10), but this doesn’t necessarily mean that there is a second baptism. I am constantly amazed at how He has equipped me through my life experiences, my education, and my involvement in Mormonism to further His work through me, but I haven’t had any experience comparable to yours or of that during Pentecost. I will say, however, that one of the strongest evidences of this happening is when the Holy Spirit fell upon Jesus as He entered into ministry.

            ~What do you mean that “the rest of the night was [supernaturally] wild as well”? What, exactly, happened?

            Again, I am asking these questions in all sincerity, so I would appreciate explanations that give clarity. Thank you.

            Your sister in Christ~
            Barbara

        • Tess~

          I think the passage in Acts is clear, too, and verse 13, as I explained, explicitly tells us that Simon the sorcerer was saved. Why did you leave this out? How do you reconcile your view that Simon wasn’t saved, not only with this verse but with the rest of Scripture that says that there is no such thing as an “intellectual conversion”? I would appreciate your thoughts on these issues and that you would explain, precisely, why my explanations and Scripture references are faulty.

          As to your second comment, while I do believe that every believer receives the indwelling Holy Spirit upon conversion, I am not sure whether there is a second baptism, enabling one for ministry. I’ve heard two different things from believers and even Scripture appears to be saying two different things, which, of course, it isn’t. I just need to buckle down and do a thorough study for myself so that I know for sure.

          Your sister in Christ~
          Barbara

          • Hi Barbara,
            1. I don’t see where the scriptures explicitly tell us Simon Magus was saved. They say he believed and was baptized. (if you saw something I missed let me know) If you do a study on Simon Magus there is alot of historical evendience all-be-it non-biblical and therefore we can’t depend on it as we do the bible, but there’s alot about him that I think you’d find very interesting. My position about him is that he was a sorcerer and used to being sought out. When folks started believing Phillip about Christ he converted, kind of like someone would join a church if they knew the president was there and felt there was something in it for them. He evedences this by his desire to purchase the power of the Holy Spirit. When he’s rebuffed by Peter and told to pray for forgiveness he still is on a power trip thinking ok if these guys pray for me then that’ll do er. He doesn’t even ask for the gift of the Spirit for himself. He wants the power not the gift. A person can believe in Christ, even in earnest but they don’t make Christ Lord and master of everything in their lives. Sometimes it’s just a progress they need to go through before they get it. Sometimes, and this should scare us, they never get it.

            We can either misunderstand the give it ALL up message or we can make a conscious refusal to give it all up or we can just be slow on the uptake (like yours truly)

            I don’t believe that you have to speak in tongues to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I probably view that ALOT differently than Penecostals do for alot of reasons. But I don’t have a problem with what is THEIR experience. Paul tells us that speaking in tongues in 1 Cor 14 and the bible tells us alot about a great many gifts of the Holy Spirit. I’ve never spoken in tongues, I’ve asked for that gift but God determines who gets what gifts and when and where and since I trust Him fully I know that when and if He wants me to have that gift I will accept most graciously. I’ve never laid hands on anyone and been able to heal them but I have NO doubt that if God wants it done He’ll make it happen at the right time. I have prophesied (I think!) just by saying exact words directed at exactly the right moment totally unknown to me and it was VERY clearly the Holy Spirit and not of me.

            I do believe there is an OH WOW experience that makes it plain that you indeed have had the Baptism of fire mentioned in the scriptures but honestly Barbara when it happened it wasn’t something I was looking to have happen. I didn’t know what I’d been missing or really even what happened that allowed it. The closest I can come to explaining it is that if I look at a chair I know I can sit on it but until I actually move, sit and rely on it my experience is just out of logic. There was a moment for me when I realized God was perfectly able to keep me from screwing up. I didn’t have to fight so hard never to step out of bounds. I could rely on Him fully and put all the weight of my being on Him and just trust and obey. Then light a bolt of glorious joyful thunder I was no longer the same. I was a new creation. (I think I also heard distant saintly voices saying, “It’s about time!) I actually even dreamed that a year or so later. I was in a crowd of saint (couldn’t see em) and we were all so delighted I was there and they said, yeah we saw you working this and that out and that one took you a bit and they were teasing me about it but there was such joy. Like nothing I’ve ever felt.

            But everyone is different. I don’t mind that my brothers and sisters speak in tongues. If God gave them a gift I’m not about to bother figuring out if they really have it. I even had a pent. friend once who was singing in tongues. This bothered another young Christian we worked with and office politics started up and I chuckled and said hey Rhonda I didn’t know you could sing in tongues! Does the Spirit do that when He doesn’t know the words? We had such a good laugh!

            Anyway, sorry so long, but don’t doubt that you have the Holy Spirit just because of this or that manifestation. Trust and obey and rely totally and the Holy Spirit is faithful to lead you into all glory. No one can pluck you from His hand. You have a very obvious love for Christ and it shows. Sorry, the post is so long. Be blessed and rest in the peace, grace and righteousness that is yours thanks to Him.

          • Tess~

            You wrote, “I don’t see where the scriptures explicitly tell us Simon Magus was saved. They say he believed and was baptized. (if you saw something I missed let me know).” I’m a little confused at what you have written. In my response to you, I cited Acts 8:13, which explicitly says that Simon was saved: “Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.” As part of my explanation, I also included the meaning of the word “believed.” It is the word “pisteuo” (Strong’s G4100), and it means “marking entrance into a state…, I became a believer, a Christian, [A.V. believed]” (Thayer’s). While the specific word “saved” isn’t in the Acts verse, we know that the word “believe” means the same thing in this context, that it doesn’t and can’t refer to an “intellectual conversion” because there is no such thing as I also explained. I’m not sure what else I can write because the Scripture is clear. If I may ask, what is it about the Acts verse that you don’t believe?

            Have a blessed day~
            Barbara

  14. Go Tess. yes, yes. All else encountered in life is secondary; the purpose of God is the only relevance. Without Him we are dead and merely passing through this opportunity of life as so many millions of lives before us, tragedy. No one chose to be born, what body we inhabit or where our childhood would occur. The person is affected by the body experience but is not the body. We are created by God. The purpose for this world is our Lord, Jesus Christ.

  15. His Spirit that infills us is our ticket that will take us to the right destination.

    The stops and sometimes stopevers along the way are our classroom labs.Our example of Him Saving, Guiding, and Always Loving us……

    We are his children His Love covers us, if in fact we YIELD our Hearts to be Purified By Him, In Him “DAILY” he gives a new infill…..of Himself….

    I have no doubt if I continue, or for that matter any of us continue to Seek Him With our Whole Heart,and Whole Might, We will not only find Him as He Promises, but we will know which station to get off at each time its our stop.

    The gate may be narrow, but the Spirit Of God is ALWAYS Ahead of us clearing our way, opening the correct doors, testing our perserverance. Its us that miss the mark sometimes.

    We only have to Love Him With All our Hearts and Listen to that Still Small Voice says To Guide Our Every Step.

    Then even when we don’t Listen, He sets Angels Charge of us least we Strike our foot on a stone 🙂

    What an AWESOME Daddy we have. I can say “YHWH” is Mine…..”Yeshua” My King, The “Ruach Hakodesh” is My Helper…

    If I have all that HELP I cannot fail ! His Word says if God is with us who can be against us….

    Remember all those battle they won,we can win if we can just remember the Battle is His we are to listen to Him and Stand, then when we can’t stand anymore, Stand….

    In out weakness He Is Strong !!!

    To All those whose accept, I PRAY THE LORD BLESS YOU AND LOVE YOU, COVER AND GUIDE YOU, AND BRING YOU INTO YOUR WHOLE PURPOSE FOREVER MORE. AMEN IN JESUS NAME

    Thanks you Father for Snacthing me from the trapper :):):)

    With All Love
    Donna

    • Jerry S,

      Intersting link.

      I had to ask the LORD to change my heart to actually have a heart for Him because of how selfish I actually was. I was a driven to succeed..

      I asked for Him to take my heart and change it into His…Wow has that been painful !!! But WOW how wonderful it is…

      However, He brought me to Him through my selfish desires, then He washes me clean in the River of Life.

      Be Blessed
      Donna

    • Oh! I love “My Utmost For His Highest” I read it every day for 3 yrs. I could re-read it all again and gain new insights each time.

      • Tess, isn’t God great at that. I can read the same verse over and over and gain new incite with each reading…

        I read your response to Barbara and I wanted to share something I have learned about tongues. When I was first baptized in the Spirit, I had one very well meaning older Chirstian lady ask me if I had the proof. I must have looked like a child cocking head in misunderstanding when all at once she started in on how I needed the tongues of fire proof otherwise I didn’t have the spirit in me.

        It really upset me I started to cry, in fact my spirit was deeply grieved. I called my husband crying because I was afraid I didn’t have it that I had missed something. I must say it was awful. I now realize God let that happen so I could be more sensitive to new baby creations and help them learn the basics very gently 🙂

        When I got home, now understand I was maybe a month old new creation, so I was wonderfully in awe of everything but also suspect of everything as well and veru afraid of doing something wrong.

        My husband explained praying in spirit because God is Spirit and Speaking in Tongues. He layed his hands on me and prayed and I will also admit I thought this was silly, but I submitted and prayed also then my lips began to quiver I quenched it however I knew the Holy Spirit had put something there because it was me making them quiver.

        Time we went on and as I personally began to yeild to Him, let me take over I began to experience instances when he would and will rise up in me and speak. I have even woke up speaking in tongues during a radical dream. He gives those sometimes. I seem to have spiritual warfare there sometimes.

        Once we were driving on the interstate and I just knew this Semi Truck was going to pull over on top of us and He rose up with great power spoke firmly and briskly and the truck never moved. My husband and I looked in wonder at each other we knew He stopped us from being killed.

        However I said all that to say this.

        I have been in church only once where I know the spirit spoke in tongues because one women rose up and spoke then complete silence came upon the entire congration and what seemed like forever, which I kept waiting because I knew scriptually there had to be an interpretation or it wasn’t really God at work.

        Then all at once another person stood up and had a translation. I broke out in tears, I knew God did that for me because I still had doubt. It was awesome.

        Now I will admit I have been in many other churches where people are speaking in tongues and I find it uncomfortable and not of God mostly of man because its not peaceful is chaotic. I think they mean well but are not moving under the power of the Spirit in those instances. He flows like rivers and springs.

        I have found if it doesn’t Edify the whole congregation its man not God. unfortunatley I have been a well meaning person speaking out of my own power before also.

        I pray in the spirit quite often but that is in private, the Holy Spirit will prompt me to pray by the same way everytime, its a gentle nudge. It flows beautifully, but I would call that the prayer language people so often speak of. I am an intercesser so that is one of they way my gift manifests.

        I guess I feel like we all children learning to use what Gifts the Spirit has given us. Like the xman movie :). Sometimes we all mis-use them out of excitement, sometimes selfishness, but I beleive mostly because God lets us so we can learn to bear Good Fruit with practice. 🙂 If we don’t practice allowing Him to manifest these gifts His Glory can’t been seen by those who need to see them manifest most of all. The lost broken sick world.

        OH BTW, God does give you words he did for me remember? So Yes you have that gift 🙂

        We all have them they are irrevocable and freely given. I have seen people who are acting like Goats work in the gift of Miracles the Spirit Gave them for the Glory Of God!!! To save the totaly lost in an instant.

        Love Donna your sis

        P.S. I just realized I have spelled Baptized wrong throughout this enitre blog, oops…

        • ~Donna,
          I’m so blessed by you every time you so openly share the wonderful glory of God in your life. I used to have my doubts about the gift of tongues. One of the questions in my heart was if tongues (as we know them today) are genuine why doesn’t that gift rest on all churches. I thought and prayed about that and I think it’s a gift we need comfort in to enjoy. I’ve had no doubts that I was what was standing in the way of this gift. I’m becoming more comfortable and more informed about it and I trust God enough to patiently wait and rely on Him and I know he will.

          Another uncomfy issue for me was the gift of healing. Seeing people have instant healing is hard to wrap your head around. Then when my son was young he had an autoimmune outbreak on his feet. His poor feet were like hamburger meat. Red, yellow purple and oozing. We went from doctor to doctor and specialist to specialist for 1.5-2 yrs. I’d asked for prayers at church and prayed continually for this precious son of mine. Then I went to my church elders and said, “Please lay hands on him and pray.” Two weeks later there was no more rash AT all! What I’d thought prayer alone could do was replaced with simply asking the elders of my church to do what the bible says and lay hands on him. That was 12 yrs ago and he has had no recurrence of it what so ever. THAT caused me to reconsider my stance on gifts of the Spirit. It’s funny, we say we believe in the power of God, then we rightly say, I believe, help me in my unbelief. Mark 9:23-25

          I no longer allow my unbelief to stop God’s plans for me.

          I’ve heard the Spirit working the same message on the same day with amazing similarity. So much so that one day a sister in Christ and I were discussing a spiritual matter. Three people walked in, each had the same topic of spiritual concern that they just immediately walked up and told me about. None of them heard the other and after the third person left my sweet sister in Christ said, Tess! I have goosebumps. What just happened is amazing! It was, it was truly amazing and such a blessing to both of us. She and I both had tears of joy as we agreed in amazement that we serve an AWESOME GOD. God shows up and shows his glory so many ways. To be present in the dust of His feet is so very humbling. Nahum 1:3
          🙂

  17. Barbara, I am going to answer you by copying your qustions into my reply, there’s not a place to reply under your response.

    What, exactly, do you mean by your comment, “We spread the LOVE OF GOD, Barb you also but very differently”? What is the point of the distinction that you are trying to make? I ask because no distinction should be made on how God uses individuals for His kingdom purposes.

    What I meant was He sends me out spreading Love, I have lots of quick instances to serve people with Jesus’ light. In these encounters He connects me with many unsaved, uneducated in the word people. Some know God but not the word, others know nothing about Him and just see Him through me during our connections. I see you in a much different ministry cicle, thats all.
    I was not saying anything except we appear to walk very differently maybe this example is better I skip and jump and you take a nice long steady step, that kind of thing?

    ~What brought you together with the specific groups you mentioned (Native American/Pentecostal/ Messianic Jews). Were the Native Americans saved? What, exactly, was the reason that you started dancing around the fire? I don’t mean this to sound insulting. The reality of the times in which we are living is that there is a great ecumenical push leading to the yoking together of spiritually incompatible groups for the sake of unity.

    It was a local celebration in the area I live. Yes some of them were saved and some of us were not. During the Praise and Worship they were drumming we were dancing for Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. To answer the reason why we were together from various different cultures is because where I live there are many diverse cultures of people seeking God. As far as spiritually incompatible groups, I dont think any of us are spiritually incompatible if we are saved and have proclaimed Christ as the Son of God as the Word shows us to do. I find I am a repairer of the breach between people quite often.

    We attend different churches of various demoninations as the Spirit Leads us to do. We have learned and the LORD has given us words and truths in all of them during the season we were there. I am not interested in the doctrines of men. I love the people those of GOD believing in the WORD of God. The Holy Bible to be specific.

    ~One of the reasons that causes me to doubt a second baptism is that I attended a Pentecostal church for years, and that was my only experience of a denomination that believes that it happens. Sadly, what causes me to question the truthfulness of that baptism is that they also believe in being slain in the spirit, and that is not a biblical practice, so if they are so wrong on one doctrine, then I have to at least question whether they are wrong on the other.

    I can only answer this from my personal experience. I assure you I have been baptised in Water & in Spirit. That is just the fact when it comes to me and that lines up with scrpture. I have the gift of tongues, and discerning of spirits,and a word of knowledge and wisdom as the Spirit allows. I walk in the fullness of the Spirit completely led by Him, or at least trying to be.

    As far as being slain in the spirit, I have been drunk with the spirit, I have felt the pressure and power of the Spirit so strong it laid me low in the floor. I feel the physical presence of the Spirit Of God quite often and when I don’t I start seeking to understand why I don’t and repent and seek my Fathers face desperately until I get back to that closeness. I seek it like the beating of my heart.

    I didn’t copy the next paragraph but I will answer. I copied those verses from Romans simply to say He already has everything plannned for us and will work out if we submit to Him and let Him lead us.

    As far as my experience, it is different for each of us. He made us all different and we all need Him in different ways. He’s my Daddy he connects with me different than you, He let me physically feel Him so I knew he was real, I needed that.

    My husband was baptised by Him in the bathroom at someones house when he asked and he said nothing spectacular happened. But he was because he believed.

    One friend of mine was baptised by him while being emmersed in the water and came out speaking in the most beautiful tongues I have ever heard.

    I believe if we ask him to baptise in Jesus name we are and thats scriptural.

    He teaches,comforts & equips each us differently. So for you it may be one way and me obivously a different.

    ~What do you mean that “the rest of the night was [supernaturally] wild as well”? What, exactly, happened?

    We had healings that weekend, we had deliverences, demons were cast out, and the Holy Spirit met us there mightly. He showed Himself in Power and In Truth. He perminated the entire land. His presence was like that of a thick fog, very tangable.

    The Signs and wonders are for the non believers. Their were many who didn’t believe and they were saved. Praise the LORD !

    I have to disagree that there are no distinctions in ministry in the Kingdom Of Heaven. we all have different gifts, different measures of faith and different relationships with Father.

    I find my personal ministry is specific to me, and I also find many who walk in the spirit to have very personal callings specific to them. This is the great harvest there is much work and few workers and I find God using all kinds of people in all kinds of ways none of which are the same.

    Thats wonderfully exciting because He wishes none be lost.

    Donna 🙂

    • Donna~

      I thank you for responding and for the explanations so that I am clear on what you mean. I have a couple thoughts to share.

      You wrote, “I have to disagree that there are no distinctions in ministry in the Kingdom Of Heaven. we all have different gifts, different measures of faith and different relationships with Father.” When I wrote that no distinctions should be made, I wasn’t referring to the fact that there are “different gifts [or] different measures of faith,” but as I went back to the original post, I realize that I misread what you were saying, so sorry about that.

      You wrote, “… I dont think any of us are spiritually incompatible if we are saved and have proclaimed Christ as the Son of God as the Word shows us to do.” I absolutely agree, but I think you misread my comment on this one. There is a large movement to erase the differences between Christianity and other religions to further the idea of “ecumenical unity,” but, in reality, it is to remove the Bible as the only Word of God and Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation. That’s why I asked the questions I did.

      You wrote that “The Signs and wonders are for the non believers.” I think if you do a word search for “signs and wonders” that you will see that God repeatedly gave them for believers.

      You wrote, “As far as being slain in the spirit, I have been drunk with the spirit, I have felt the pressure and power of the Spirit so strong it laid me low in the floor.” My sister in Christ, I have no doubt that you are saved and that you love the Lord, and your zeal for God is obvious, but your beliefs about being “drunk with the spirit” and “being slain in the spirit” are not based upon knowledge (Rom. 10:2) because neither is scriptural, which I’ll address further down. As you know, in Acts 17:11b, we are told that we are to “[search] the scriptures daily, whether those things [are] so,” which means if it cannot be supported by Scripture, then it must be thrown out, period. That is the strength and integrity of Scripture. Therefore, we are to judge all of our thoughts and all of our feelings solely by the Word of God. As II Corinthians 10:5b says, we are to “[bring] into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.” It doesn’t matter how much people appeal to the logic that they “know what they know” or how much they appeal to the inner witness of the Holy Spirit. If it isn’t in the Word, it doesn’t exist as spiritual truth, no matter what one thinks or how one feels or to whom one attributes this supposed knowledge or experience. Awhile back, I read something that is absolutely true: If our mind says something different than the Word of God, then our mind is wrong, and if our heart says something different than the Word of God, then our heart is wrong. It is just that simple, and we know from Hebrews 4:12 that God’s Word is not some fuzzy discourse in which we can only come close to truth but that we can know it exactly.

      With this in mind, we also know that if the truth of God’s Word is breached that it renders it worthless. I want you to consider the inherent problem of your saying that the Word is teaching something that it clearly doesn’t. If you can do so, then so can everyone else. If you say that the Bible teaches that believers can be slain or drunk in the spirit without solid scriptural evidence, then Catholics can claim that transubstantiation is true without scriptural without proof and Mormons can claim that becoming gods of their own worlds is true without scriptural proof, and you cannot say anything about it because you are doing the same thing, regardless of what argument is put forth to support a doctrine or practice. Mormons, for example, know something is true by something they refer to as “burning in the bosom,” which, to them, is God’s witness. Am I supposed to just believe what they say because 13 million of them bear their testimony that they “know Joseph Smith is a prophet of God” and that they have a “burning in the bosom” to prove it? How are we to argue with another person’s feelings or experiences? We’re can’t, and we’re not supposed to. That’s one reason why God gave us His Word, so that we can refute with sound doctrine and so we can contend for the faith.

      Now, having said all that, I’m not suggesting, at all, that you are putting these things forth as truth to be deceptive, only that you have been deceived. Looking to both of these experiences, can you find even one Scripture to support either of them? I know there are six or seven verses that are usually put forth for being slain in the spirit, and if they are read carefully, you will notice that, in some cases, the people involved aren’t even God’s people so they aren’t going to be slain in the spirit. Notice, too, that many times the people fall forward, something that never happens, and I’ve seen scores of them. Nowhere are “catchers” ever referred to in the Bible. In addition, great liberties are taken with the language of certain verses to force a “slain” interpretation such as in Revelation 1:17b, which says, “I fell at his feet as dead,” which means absolute fear, as the rest of the verse reveals but which is not the emotion that comes over one who has this experience. Also, nowhere in Scripture does someone get slain by someone laying hands upon them as happens all the time in some churches today. All I’m saying is that you need to read with a discerning eye as to what each of these verses is saying before giving one as proof.

      As to being drunk in the spirit, this is another twisting of Scripture to make it say something it clearly isn’t. Ephesians 5:18 says, “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.” This verse isn’t to be understood to mean that there is a parallel state of drunkenness; it is to illustrate a contrast. It is to mark the difference between a life of no spiritual substance or eternal purpose with one that is guided by the indwelling spirit and set upon heavenly things. If you read the next three verses (Eph. 5:19-21), we see the true behavior of being filled with the Holy Spirit: “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.” Nowhere does Scripture teach that staggering and slurring one’s speech and uncontrollable laughter is a practice leading to spiritual godliness or that it is evidence of the inner working of the Holy Spirit.

      Donna, it is my prayer that you will look to God’s Word only with regard to these two experiences so that you will be freed from their deception. Hundreds of thousands of Christians who love the Lord have been taken in with this movement through the Toronto Blessing, which is anything but. In addition to online sites, there is an excellent resource about what goes on there in a book entitled “Counterfeit Revival” by Hank Hanegraaff.

      God bless you as you seek the truth of His Word~
      Barbara

  18. Barbara,

    I have seen and experienced the counterfeit Revival you speak throughout my travels so I do understand and will continue to press in to the Lord Daily as I already do. Any prayer for me not to misguided are always welcome.

    We do not follow the Doctrines of men only the Word of God, we do however go out amoung many whom are caught up in demoninational and doctrinal bondage so to speak and let the Lord us us to show that Whom the Lord sets Free is Free Indeed.

    I will say I am not led to discuss any demoninational beliefs or to judge any of them as the Lord showed me He is in complete control and that is not my job to be concerned with what others do. He showed me it is His battle not mine. I am to do what He sends me out to do. So with all due respect I am not going to address the different religions actions of people or beliefs.

    I have seen many wierd things and My Daddy “YHWH” has shown me what was Him and what was man.

    As far as slain in the spirit, I guess that probably needs better definition of exactly what that means. If this is what it means, I dont believe my Daddy God puts people down and has them jerk all around because that would be scary for the others. He is very specific in scripture about His peacefulness, gentleness, and entering into His rest type things.

    Let me explain what I mean by drunk in the Spirit better maybe I had a poor choice of words. When I enter into My Fathers presence in Worship, and when I allow Him to cleanse me of this world in that presence through my deep heart felt Praise and Worship.

    He takes me to a place of complete yielding, its a place where my knees start to give way and often I kneel down in reverance. I am His child, its an honor and respect thing I do for Him only.

    There’s an inner peace so overwhelming that my arms gets heavy, His Holy Spirits presence becomes all I feel and its a wonderful heaviness, all else around me disapears in those moments of absolute rest in peace in Him. I feel as though I am in His Throne room at His feet, Christ that is, Worshiping Him in total submission,honor, joy, peace, and wonder. Most momemts are breif mostly due to me as I can’t seem to maintain that rest for long as mind will begin to wonder but as I come out of that rest with Him. I am typically dizzied and relaxed to a point that I must sit and just be for a while. That was what I meant by drunk. So maybe dizzied and dazzled by Him would have been better words.

    My husband refers to my experience as the heaviness of His Shekinah Glory. I just know its the best place I have ever been and not once have I ever wanted to leave. My first experience was the first time I took communion with Him and He lifted me up to His feet and I curled around them in absolute Love and Honor.

    Yes I agree, Eph 5:19-21 is part of my daily life. I find quite often in the circle of people I encounter throughout my days or that the Lord send me out to that we do that just as the scriptures says. We speak in psalms and hymns.

    I do bring all my thoughts into the obedience and mind of the Christ and daily He shows those that are not of Him that are mine. He Leads me into All Truth. Just Like the Word Promised.:)

    There are many Decieving Spirits and Doctrines Of Men out there today that is both scriptural and true. In the Ministry the Lord has assigned me to there are many of them I encounter very often. When you are in a deliverence type ministry you see all kinds of manifestions not of God. I agree, the Signs and wonders are for both believers and non believers. He states throughout the old testiment upon many occasions that they were for the others, not just the His people that was what I meant.

    Thanks for your concern for me and I will continue to Let The Holy Spirit Teach, Guide, Convict, Correct, and Steer me in the way in which I should go.

    I am sealed by Him and He promises to never let me go. I feel Him in me and when I don’t I run back to Him as fast as I can.

    I am on that walk that is Life just like the rest of us.
    My Daddy “YHWH” is with me every step I take, that is His Holy Spirit, My Holy Spirit since he is in me, every verse I read leading me into the wisdom and understanding that I need. Every prophet or word He sends to me.

    Every breath I take He is there. Barbara I know the Bible is my textbook and His word, but my Love and relationship with Him personally is my rudder on this ship that is Life.

    I seek His Face every momemt I live, and actually throughout the night when I wake and the day when I walk.

    I find myself loving on Him, fearing Him or revering Him every waking hour. I find myself in conversations with Him throughout my days because He is right beside me constantly. We play, We laugh, We sing, we cry, we love.

    I speak in prayer each morning when I wake that I yield everything to him especially my heart and mind, I have even prayed for Him to remove what is not Him form them both, and I know He is and has.

    That he reprogram me to become who He created me to be and wash off what the world dirtied me with. I know He will and I know He has.

    He allows me mistakes as I learn, He gives me revelation when He reveals that mistake and then I learn and don’t do it again.
    Thats My Daddy, Thats My GOD…..

    I speak this in Prayer for all of us who Love Him.
    May the Lord Bless and Keep you. The Lord Shine His face upon you and be Gracious to you.The Lord Lift up His Countenance on you and Give You Peace.

    We are entering into a very Glorious Season these next weeks. The Barley is Aviv, Our GOD has Delivered Us and His Promise is Fulfilled, and Our Christ King has Risen and His Promise is Fulfilled, His Spirit is Upon Us and His LOVE ABOUNDS 🙂

    Shalom to You All.
    Peace to those who Celebrate the His Feast of Passover/Unleavened Bread/First Fruits and Peace to Those who Celebrate Easter

    May we all Worship in Spirit and Truth the Great “I AM” THE ONE TRUE GOD “YHWH” My Daddy be with you all.

    P.s. Barbara I probably wont respond if you do, like I told Tess last week I feel I have been removed from the blog here once again for a season elsewhere. Be Loved and Blessed.
    Donna

    • Donna~

      Thank you for responding. I know that communication on these forums can be stunted because there is no immediate feedback as to the phrasing we use, so I appreciate the clarification of the two doctrines. I pray that God will bless you abundantly in all spiritual blessings and according to His riches in glory as you go into a new season with Him.

      Your sister in Christ~
      Barbara

  19. What great posts from both of you Donna and Barbara! I think we all seek rightly to know what is the good and perfect will of our Father in heaven. Romans 12:2 I have heard that there is a very good book written by Chuck Smith, Charisma vs Charismania. I haven’t read it yet so I can’t exactly endorse it but I plan on getting it soon.

    Just to speak for myself I got fed up with churches who adopt the stance that our way of believing is the only way and unless you see it our way you aren’t going to heaven. One of the things that dawned on me years ago was that Jesus fought most ardently the “religious elitists”. Had they not been puffed up within themselves they would have been able to easily recognize what they were witness to. All by God’s design of course but we, like they can fall into that same trap as well.

    To think you know all there is to know about scripture can do you as much harm as thinking you don’t need to know anything other than what your preacher tells you. Any good preacher would advise you of Acts 17:11 and if you take that to heart you can and should seek to know ALL levels of understanding available in God’s word and to have faith that the Holy Spirit will lead us in all understanding. It is NOT our intellect that we should be relying on anymore than we should rely on our feelings. The assumption that we know it all is the surest way to render ourselves unable to grow.

    I take great joy in learning about the cultural differences between Western and Eastern views (Gentile vs Jewish). Being able to think like a Jew doesn’t make me one but Jesus was a Jew and there is great depth and beauty in viewing the same scriptures from Jewish eyes. So much can be missed if we reject context and culture.

    I also believe we hurt the body of Christ when we assume everyone needs to believe what I believe and they are wrong if they don’t. Just like with Paul it can be hard to kick against the goads and I’m so very thankful to God that Jesus went after Paul and blinded Him on the Damascus road. Paul did not want anything to do with Jesus but because God saw that Paul was dedicated to his belief He worked a mighty work on a mighty man and Paul accepted the correction and was saved.

    Some cows can chew the cud and spit the stick out. Some can’t. We always have to be careful of what we chew and swallow but I trust the Lord to lead me. Because I do I find GREAT joy in picking up gems from all of you. When you are wrong I trust God to do HIS job and show you. I feel free to disagree or point this or that out but I pray NEVER to do that in a manner that would not be pleasing to God.

    We are living in times where a jumble of false doctrine is being melded into the mix and we need to be very careful and honest with God, ourselves and others and for me the big NO NO is met when the divinity of Christ or the foundational issues are distorted or attacked. I think that is the time God wants us to stand up and fight. I feel such a sorrow for our young people. I think satan knows his time is short because there is such a push by him to have people believe Jesus was just a man. That’s a big tell and so easy to spot but not for our young people. I fear that while we split hairs satan deceives the world who’s sick of the divisions in the body of Christ. There will increasingly be great signs and wonders and false prophets will be doing them. So much so that even the elect will have trouble with these things but thank God when we stay in the Word we can have assurance and faith in God.

    I want to know everything about my God and walking with Him daily through His Word helps me to hear better, see better, sing better and listen better. I don’t worry about being understood. I worry about understanding. I don’t want to just walk the line. I want to dance with Bridegroom and fully enjoy ALL His glory. I want to be lead into ALL truth and be useful in every way I can be while I’m here so that everyone who I come in contact with can see Him through the happiness and fullness He so abundantly provides to anyone who will.

    I pray for all gifts and I know that if I need them and when I need them they will be gifts readily given because I was open to receiving any and all He chooses to blesses me with. I’m so blessed to have such wonderful brothers and sisters in Christ, who like me seek Him daily.
    Shalom! 🙂

    • Tess~

      Thank you for your comments. I, too, enjoy learning about Jewish culture because it truly helps us understand the teachings of the NT. I think Christianity as a whole is lacking depth and richness in their understanding of God’s Word by not studying the OT as much as it should.

      I agree that some churches teach that their “way of believing is the only way,” but there is also a great rift taking place in the body because many churches are teaching doctrines that are not biblical, some, as Scripture has told us will happen, that will deny the Lord that bought them (II Pet. 2:1). I find, being on this blog for some time, that there are far too many differing opinions in the body about the important issues such as the Triune nature of God, eternal security, and how works are to be understood in relation to salvation, which means that too many people who have not followed God’s command to “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (II Tim. 2:15). Some of it, I realize, has to do with being a new believer; however, there are too many long-time believers who have formed doctrines that are at odds with the whole counsel of God. As I wrote in my post to you, God’s Word is not some fuzzy discourse that will get us close to the truth. It is complete and fully reconcilable (II Tim. 3:16), it is exacting (Heb. 4:12), and we are told that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all of its truth (Jn. 16:13). I’ve seen so many participants argue by way of proof texting, disallowing the verses and explanations that disagree with what they believe, and it baffles me why they won’t be honest with Scripture because, not only doesn’t it change what the Bible says, each one of us will be held accountable for our failure to interpret and act upon God’s Word correctly. What benefit is there to walking around in darkness? Not only does it hurt the believer, it hurts the body of Christ.

      In addition to crippling the church body, this is where false religions get their foothold. They take a doctrine and twist it ever so slightly until people believe it, and then they take another doctrine and do the same thing, and after awhile, they have an entirely new, albeit false, religion leading people into a false sense of security. This is precisely why believers are told to “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables” (II Tim. 4:2-4). This is why I respectfully disagree with your comment, “When you are wrong I trust God to do HIS job and show you” because this verse clearly says it is the job of believers. Therefore, because you think I have been wrong, I would appreciate your telling me what I have been wrong about and the Scripture and explanation so that I can be brought into the truth. I do, however, totally agree with you that “God wants us to stand up and fight.”

      I pray that you will be blessed in all spiritual things~
      Barbara

      • Hi Barbara,
        Let me first say a great big AMEN to your post.

        However, you continue with many, not just me, to attempt to prove yourself right and them wrong, Sis.

        The truth keeps getting better all the time on so many different levels. His children can point out different truths that do not do violence to the text and are complimentary rather than a twist of the truth.

        To believe you only possess the ability to know the truth is to exhalt yourself above the body of Christ and in this way satan can use you like leaven in bread, it corrupts by puffing up.

        We have to listen very closely to what people are saying not turn what they are saying into a platform of debate. When we do that we hurt the body of Christ far more than an atheist ever could and we ALL have to be careful not to do that.

        We also as you rightly point out can’t twist scripture into what we WANT it to say.

        We can try to make God about “our” theology instead of making our theology about God.

        So many people think God exists to make them happy. They sell God like an acne medication for an earthly cure. You can see this in the healthy and wealth doctrine, also in the doctrines that claim Jesus was just a man and became God and you can too types of theologies, you see it in the once saved always saved so go ahead and sin away doctrines, and also in the once saved always in doubt doctrine where Christ just wasn’t enough, you have to work your way into heaven to help Him. That goes against what the bible teaches. It teaches that none apart from Christ are worthy. We all sinned and continue to sin and God knowing that loved us so much He gave a willing Son (begotten of the Father) who became flesh and triumphed over sin and in doing so gave a gift there is no way we could ever attain on our own. I know you believe this but when you try to attach an addendum (An item of additional material, typically omissions, added at the end of a book or other publication.) that puts the cart before the horse. In other words it’s not our works that save us it is Christ and Him crucified that saves us. Of course we should strive with everything in us to obey His commandments but we cannot and when we put all the emphasis on us rather than Him we rob Christ of HIS righteousness.

        Works trippen can thus become another “focus on self” rather than “focus on God’s righteousness” kind of mistake that the devil can and does use against the body of Christ. Just like those whose focus is still on self when they ask for “their” will not “His” (heal ME, give ME money, give ME happiness, MY glory, MY works, MY righteousness, gimme, gimme, gimme) True worship is to stand in awe, fear, trembling and utter amazement of God and all HE is and does and to obey in order to further HIS kingdom not ours.

        The church as a whole has gone way off track when they peddle a doctrine of “become a Christian and do this or that and you can be happy and go to heaven and you, you, you, etc.)

        The fact is no one can go to heaven by his own works. We are saved by making HIM our Lord and accepting HIS gift of grace and letting HIM reign in our hearts. People can be happy sinning, they can be moral atheist’s, they can claim Jesus was just a man who if we live like him we can save ourselves. None of those will save them. Only when we make it ALL about Him can we hope to have a right relationship with Him. Many people have tried to point this out to you but you keep making it about works. I think, hope and pray that it’s just a love of the truth issue and not a my ways the only way issue.

        That’s a very noble thing but it is just as much a mistake as making it not about works. When works are there that’s proof that He is in me, not proof that I’m the good child and deserving of salvation. Please don’t take this as a judgement of you. It was a lesson I learned in my own walk. It cost me dearly and thank God He pointed it out to me or I’d still be on a works trip despairing of ever obtaining what I so desired. A right relationship with Him. I kept attempting to fight satan within my own power, running at sin trying to beat it into submission and in that way I was focusing on me and sin rather than focusing on salvation and my relationship with Him and watching in awe and amazement when He worked through me instead of around me in righteousness and glory. When I finally got myself out of the way He could lead me in paths of righteousness for HIS NAMES SAKE. Our battle is not against sinners. It’s against sin and a very cunning enemy that can use us in very crafty ways if we aren’t very aware and on guard. We can use scripture to fight OUR battles not His if we aren’t very careful. I guess I’m just saying we need to make sure we use the sword of the word to slay the sin not the sinner.

        Now please don’t twist my words. I’m not saying that works aren’t important, they are, but Paul got it and the Pharisees didn’t. The Pharisees clung to their works, their traditions and their views and rejected Jesus because Jesus didn’t conform to “their” expectations.

        In much love of you and your wonderful heart for God.
        Your Sis-In-Christ
        Tess

        • Tess~

          You know, I’ve discussed Mormonism with Mormons and Watchtower doctrine with Jehovah’s Witnesses and biblical doctrine with Christians for quite a long time now, and there is one thread of truth that runs through all arguments. Those who can’t defend their positions scripturally always resort to attacking my character or my motives in one way or another. If you would like to take what I’ve written with regard to works and salvation and put forth a sound argument with Scripture as well as to dismantle my argument by logically disproving my explanations, then I will be more than happy to consider what you have to say.

          Barbara

          • Tess~

            One thing that I find very frustrating on these sites is having my ideas twisted to say something that, clearly, I neither wrote nor implied. What I wrote was that people who cannot defend their beliefs by the Word of God, will, more often than not, try to discredit what has been written, and they do this, not by attacking the issue, which is logical argument, but by attacking the person (ad hominem-“against the person”), which is argumentative fallacy. I mentioned three groups, not two, Mormons, JWs, AND Christians, so why did you make the comment about my assuming that you are either a Mormon or a JW but not a Christian? Why did you leave that out? Anyway, my point here is that the truth, and especially biblical truth, can and must be defended by using sound, logical argument to support the issue or premise at hand, not by saying derogatory things about the other person. Although I didn’t include this, I would also like to add that the other response that I get from people who cannot defend their beliefs is that they will just ignore what I have written and drop out of the discussion altogether, which has happened many times on this blog. This is really a sad problem because if a person really has the truth, he or she should be both willing and able to defend it in order to correct an erring brother or sister.

            Taking what I have written and applying it to what you wrote above, you spent a great deal of space focusing on your perception of me, your second comment being just one example. Tell me, how am I supposed to argue against your remark, “However, you continue with many, not just me, to attempt to prove yourself right and them wrong, Sis”? Because there is no actual proof that you can put forth to prove that this is what I am doing, and because there is no actual proof that I can put forth to defend myself against what you have said, we just end up with nothing more than going back and forth with “yes you do/no I don’t” fight and not a sound argument to find the truth. Secondly, why do you accuse me of trying to prove myself right and others wrong only on the issues about which we disagree? For example, you never took that stance on the doctrine of the Trinity. Thirdly, even if this is what I am doing, does that automatically make me wrong? Fourthly, didn’t Paul address this very thing in Philippians 1:14-18?

            Do you see the point I’m trying to make? Do you see that in your entire response, you didn’t put forth any actual proof against works being a part of salvation? You said a lot of unsubstantiated things about me, you gave a lot of opinions, and you made one comment about works, that “Paul got it and the Pharisees didn’t.” Although this is a true statement, it doesn’t reflect even a minimal examination of the Word on this topic. The word “works” has many different meanings in Scripture, so in order to logically refute my conclusion, you need to study what they mean in context, wouldn’t you agree? In addition, where is your explanation that reflects how you reconciled “works” in Ephesians 2:9, “works” in Ephesians 2:10, and “works” in James 2 as II Timothy 3:16-17 demands? If you can’t reconcile Scripture, you will not have the truth of Scripture.

            I will include my comments about your last post about Simon here. You wrote that “Acts 8:13 does not state Simon was saved. It says HE BELIEVED also.” Tess, did you even read my post on the 14th ? I explicitly wrote, “While the specific word ‘saved’ isn’t in the Acts verse, we know that the word ‘believe’ means the same thing in this context….” In other words, in this context, the word “believed” and the word “saved” mean the same thing, so if you’re going to insist that Simon wasn’t saved, then you will have to come up with another reason. In addition, you might want to be careful about demanding that specific words be used to support doctrine because you’re going to lose when arguing the reality of the Trinity because that word isn’t used even once in Scripture, is it? I understand and agree with what you’re saying about “Making Jesus our Lord and Savior and placing all our weight, faith and trust in Him is what saves us,” but to say that “Entering into a state of belief is not what saves us” is not scriptural. Romans 10:9 clearly says, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved” (caps mine). “Placing all our weight, faith, and trust in Him” isn’t something that happens to ANY believer at first. That’s what the walk and the sanctification are about. It’s dying to oneself and growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, and for some there is a lot of growth at first, for others with more baggage, it may take years, and for every believer, it takes a lifetime. How fast the process takes place within the individual is not a reflection upon one’s saved status, and if one sins, as Simon most certainly did, then he had an advocate in Jesus Christ (I Jn. 2:1).

            As far as Judas goes, Jesus says that he would have been forgiven of his sin (Matt. 12:31) had he repented. With regard to Simon, there are two things. The first is that you are disagreeing with what we are told about him, that he believed, meaning saved, and your example doesn’t prove otherwise. You can choose to continue to believe what you want about him, but please don’t say that Scripture supports your view because it doesn’t. Secondly, you are assuming far too much that is not given in Acts 8. All we are told is that he reverted back to his old behavior, something each and every person who has ever been saved has done, including me and including you, but this doesn’t mean that we hadn’t been truly saved, does it? As the parable in Luke 18:10-13 teaches us, we need to be careful that we don’t look upon our sins as somehow less vile as other people’s. Sorcery is, indeed, wicked, and it certainly is more visible than, say the internal sins of judgment, partiality, and pride, but are they any less repulsive to God? We also know that Peter rebuked Simon for it and told him to repent, which is exactly how our sin should be dealt with by another believer in order to bring us back to where we need to be. In addition, Simon’s response of asking for prayer was also the correct one, so based only upon the information that we are given, it can be rightly assumed that he did repent; however, even if he didn’t, it doesn’t mean that he hadn’t been saved to begin with because Acts 8:13 refutes that view.

            Tess, I would be more than happy to enter into a discussion of “works” with you, but only on two conditions. We are to leave our personal opinions of each other out of it, and all relevant verses are to be included in the examination because I refuse to proof text. It won’t take you more than a few minutes to read the concordance entries for the Ephesians and James’ verses. After that, I would like to hear how you reconcile Ephesians 2:8-10 with James 2. As you know, I posted my comments on this topic to Eric on March 7 (Jan. 30 blog), so if you want to take issue with anything I wrote after you have studied the relevant verses, then we can use that as our starting point. Who knows, if this goes well, maybe we can discuss eternal security!

            I pray that, as we study and seek the truth of God’s Word, the Holy Spirit will give us sight.

            Your sister in Christ~
            Barbara

  20. Hi Barbara,
    In an early post you wrote:
    In my response to you, I cited Acts 8:13, which explicitly says that Simon was saved: “Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.”

    Acts 8:13 does not state Simon was saved. It says HE BELIEVED also. Entering into a state of belief is not what saves us. I can believe a chair will hold my weight, until I sit and trust it, and relax my whole weight upon it my belief is only partial. If I perch upon my works ready to jump up at any moment I’m depending on MY understanding not on faith that the Holy Spirit will lead me to all truth. Making Jesus our Lord and Savior and placing all our weight, faith and trust in Him is what saves us.

    Judas Iscariot would be another example. He believed but did not make Jesus his Lord and Master and betrayed him with a kiss.

    John 16:12-15 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

  21. My comments about Simon Magus are sound and backed up by solid commintary through the BLB study links. If you will notice NKV inserted “also” before believed interestingly enough. AND the correlating scriptures show clearly that the position I took on belief without heart and commitment are not as some try to attempt to make them some kind “not biblical”.

    Treasury of Scripture Knowledge
    Act 8:13 (KJV) — Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

    Act 8:13 (NKJV) — Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

    Simon This Simon was probably, as several learned men suppose, the same who is mentioned by Josephus, as persuading Drusilla to leave her husband, and live with Felix.

    believed Act 8:21; Psa 78:35-37; Psa 106:12,13; Luk 8:13; Jhn 2:23-25; Jhn 8:30,31; Jam 2:19-26
    and wondered Act 3:10; Act 13:44; Hab 1:5; Jhn 5:20; Jhn 7:21

    miracles and signs Gr. signs and great miracles. Act 8:7; Mar 16:17

  22. Matthew Henry’s Commentary
    Act 8:4-13

    Samson’s riddle is here again unriddled: Out of the eater comes forth meat, and out of the strong sweetness. The persecution that was designed to extirpate the church was by the overruling providence of God made an occasion of the enlargement of it. Christ had said, I am come to send fire on the earth; and they thought, by scattering those who were kindled with that fire, to have put it out, but instead of this they did but help to spread it.

    I. Here is a general account of what was done by them all (v. 4): They went every where, preaching the word. They did not go to hide themselves for fear of suffering, no, nor to show themselves as proud of their sufferings; but they went up and down to scatter the knowledge of Christ in every place where they were scattered. They went every where, into the way of the Gentiles, and the cities of the Samaritans, which before they were forbidden to go into, Mt. 10:5. They did not keep together in a body, though this might have been a strength to them; but they scattered into all parts, not to take their ease, but to find out work. They went evangelizing the world, preaching the word of the gospel; it was this which filled them, and which they endeavoured to fill the country with, those of them that were preachers in their preaching, and others in their common converse. They were now in a country where they were no strangers, for Christ and his disciples had conversed much in the regions of Judea; so that they had a foundation laid there for them to build upon; and it would be requisite to let the people there know what that doctrine which Jesus had preached there some time ago was come to, and that it was not lost and forgotten, as perhaps they were made to believe.

    II. A particular account of what was done by Philip. We shall hear of the progress and success of others of them afterwards (ch. 11:19), but here must attend the motions of Philip, not Philip the apostle, but Philip the deacon, who was chosen and ordained to serve tables, but having used the office of a deacon well he purchased to himself a good degree, and great boldness in the faith, 1 Tim. 3:13. Stephen was advanced to the degree of a martyr, Philip to the degree of an evangelist, which when he entered upon, being obliged by it to give himself to the word and prayer, he was, no doubt, discharged from the office of a deacon; for how could he serve tables at Jerusalem, which by that office he was obliged to do, when he was preaching in Samaria? And it is probable that two others were chosen in the room of Stephen and Philip. Now observe,

    1. What wonderful success Philip had in his preaching, and what reception he met with.

    (1.) The place he chose was the city of Samaria, the head city of Samaria, the metropolis of that country, which stood where the city of Samaria had formerly stood, of the building of which we read, 1 Ki. 16:24, now called Sebaste. Some think it was the same with Sychem or Sychar, that city of Samaria where Christ was, Jn. 4:5. Many of that city then believed in Christ, though he did no miracle among them (v. 39, 41), and now Philip, three years after, carries on the work then begun. The Jews would have no dealings with the Samaritans; but Christ sent his gospel to slay all enmities, and particularly that between the Jews and the Samaritans, by making them one in his church.

    (2.) The doctrine he preached was Christ; for he determined to know nothing else. He preached Christ to them; he proclaimed Christ to them (so the word signifies), as a king, when he comes to the crown, is proclaimed throughout his dominions. The Samaritans had an expectation of the Messiah’s coming, as appears by Jn. 4:25. Now Philip tells them that he is come, and that the Samaritans are welcome to him. Ministers’ business is to preach Christ-Christ, and him crucified-Christ, and him glorified.

    (3.) The proofs he produced for the confirmation of his doctrine were miracles, v. 6. To convince them that he had his commission from heaven (and therefore not only they might venture upon what he said, but they were bound to yield to it), he shows them this broad seal of heaven annexed to it, which the God of truth would never put to a lie. The miracles were undeniable; they heard and saw the miracles which he did. They heard the commanding words he spoke, and saw the amazing effects of them immediately; that he spoke, and it was done. And the nature of the miracles was such as suited the intention of his commission, and gave light and lustre to it. [1.] He was sent to break the power of Satan; and, in token of this, unclean spirits, being charged in the name of the Lord Jesus to remove, came out of many that were possessed with them, v. 7. As far as the gospel prevails, Satan is forced to quit his hold of men and his interest in them, and then those are restored to themselves, and to their right mind again, who, while he kept possession, were distracted. Wherever the gospel gains the admission and submission it ought to have, evil spirits are dislodged, and particularly unclean spirits, all inclinations to the lusts of the flesh, which war against the soul; for God has called us from uncleanness to holiness, 1 Th. 4:7. This was signified by the casting of these unclean spirits out of the bodies of people, who, it is here said, came out crying with a loud voice, which signifies that they came out with great reluctancy, and sorely against their wills, but were forced to acknowledge themselves overcome by a superior power, Mk. 1:26; 3:11; 9:26. [2.] He was sent to heal the minds of men, to cure a distempered world, and to put it into a good state of health; and, in token of this, many that were taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. Those distempers are specified that were most difficult to be cured by the course of nature (that the miraculous cure might be the more illustrious), and those that were most expressive of the disease of sin and that moral impotency which the souls of men labour under as to the service of God. The grace of God in the gospel is designed for the healing of those that are spiritually lame and paralytic, and cannot help themselves, Rom. 5:6.

    (4.) The acceptance which Philip’s doctrine, thus proved, met with in Samaria (v. 6): The people with one accord gave heed to those things which Philip spoke, induced thereto by the miracles which served at first to gain attention, and so by degrees to gain assent. There then begin to be some hopes of people when they begin to take notice of what is said to them concerning the things of their souls and eternity-when they begin to give heed to the word of God, as those that are well pleased to hear it, desirous to understand and remember it, and that look upon themselves as concerned in it. The common people gave heed to Philip, oi ochloi-a multitude of them, not here and there one, but with one accord; they were all of a mind, that it was fit the doctrine of the gospel should be enquired into, and an impartial hearing given to it.

    (5.) The satisfaction they had in attending on, and attending to, Philip’s preaching, and the success it had with many of them (v. 8): There was great joy in that city; for (v. 12) they believed Philip, and were baptized into the faith of Christ, the generality of them, both men and women. Observe, [1.] Philip preached the things concerning the kingdom of God, the constitution of that kingdom, the laws and ordinances of it, the liberties and privileges of it, and the obligations we are all under to be the loyal subjects of that kingdom; and he preached the name of Jesus Christ, as king of that kingdom-his name, which is above every name. He preached it up in its commanding power and influence-all that by which he has made himself known. [2.] The people not only gave heed to what he said, but at length believed it, were fully convinced that it was of God and not of men, and gave up themselves to the direction and government of it. As to this mountain, on which they had hitherto worshipped God, and placed a great deal of religion in it, they were now as much weaned from it as every they had been wedded to it, and become the true worshippers, who worship the Father in spirit and in truth, and in the name of Christ, the true temple, Jn. 4:20-23. [3.] When they believed, without scruple (though they were Samaritans) and without delay they were baptized, openly professed the Christian faith, promised to adhere to it, and then, by washing them with water, were solemnly admitted into the communion of the Christian church, and owned as brethren by the disciples. Men only were capable of being admitted into the Jewish church by circumcision; but, to show that in Jesus Christ there is neither male nor female (Gal. 3:28), but both are alike welcome to him, the initiating ordinance is such as women are capable of, for they are numbered with God’s spiritual Israel, though not with Israel according to the flesh, Num. 1:2. And hence it is easily gathered that women are to be admitted to the Lord’s supper, though it does not appear that there were any among those to whom it was first administered. [4.] This occasioned great joy; each one rejoiced for himself, as he in the parable who found the treasure hid in the field; and they all rejoiced for the benefit hereby brought to their city, and that it came without opposition, which it would scarcely have done if Samaria had been within the jurisdiction of the chief priests. Note, The bringing of the gospel to any place is just matter of joy, of great joy, to that place. Hence the spreading of the gospel in the world is often prophesied of in the Old Testament as the diffusing of joy among the nations: Let the nations be glad and sing for joy, Ps. 67:4; 1 Th. 1:6. The gospel of Christ does not make men melancholy, but fills them with joy, if it be received as it should be; for it is glad tidings of great joy to all people, Lu. 2:10.

    2. What there was in particular at this city of Samaria that made the success of the gospel there more than ordinarily wonderful.

    (1.) That Simon Magus had been busy there, and had gained a great interest among the people, and yet they believed the things that Philip spoke. To unlearn that which is bad proves many times a harder task than to learn that which is good. These Samaritans, though they were not idolaters as the Gentiles, nor prejudiced against the gospel by traditions received from their fathers, yet had of late been drawn to follow Simon, a conjurer (For so Magus signifies) who made a mighty noise among them, and had strangely bewitched them. We are told,

    [1.] How strong the delusion of Satan was by which they were brought into the interests of this great deceiver. He had been for some time, nay, for a long time, in this city, using sorceries; perhaps he came there by the instigation of the devil, soon after our Saviour had been there, to undo what he had been doing there; for it was always Satan’s way to crush a good work in its bud and infancy, 2 Co. 11:3; 1 Th. 3:5. Now,

    First, Simon assumed to himself that which was considerable: He gave out that he himself was some great one, and would have all people to believe so and to pay him respect accordingly; and then, as to every thing else, they might do as they pleased. He had no design to reform their lives, nor improve their worship and devotion, only to make them believe that he was, tis megas-some divine person. Justin Martyr says that he would be worshipped as proµton theon-the chief god. He gave out himself to be the Son of God, the Messiah, so some think; or to be an angel, or a prophet. Perhaps he was uncertain within himself what title of honour to pretend to; but he would be thought some great one. Pride, ambition, and an affectation of grandeur, have always been the cause of abundance of mischief both to the world and to the church.

    Secondly, The people ascribed to him what he pleased. 1. They all gave heed to him, from the least to the greatest, both young and old, both poor and rich, both governors and governed. To him they had regard (v. 10, 11), and perhaps the more because the time fixed for the coming of the Messiah had now expired, which had raised a general expectation of the appearing of some great one about this time. Probably he was a native of their country, and therefore they embraced him the more cheerfully, that by giving honour to him they might reflect it upon themselves. 2. They said of him, This man is the great power of God-the power of God, that great power (so it might be read), that power which made the world. See how ignorant inconsiderate people mistake that which is done by the power of Satan, as if it were done by the power of God. Thus, in the Gentile world, devils pass for deities; and in the antichristian kingdom all the world wonders after a beast, to whom the dragon gives his power, and who opens his mouth in blasphemy against God, Rev. 13:2-5. 3. They were brought to it by his sorceries: He bewitched the people of Samaria (v. 9), bewitched them with sorceries (v. 11), that is, either, (1.) By his magic arts he bewitched the minds of the people, at least some of them, who drew in others. Satan, by God’s permission, filled their hearts to follow Simon. O foolish Galatians, saith Paul, who hath bewitched you? Gal. 3:1. These people are said to be bewitched by Simon, because they were so strangely infatuated to believe a lie. Or, (2.) By his magic arts he did many signs and lying wonders, which seemed to be miracles, but really were not so: like those of the magicians of Egypt, and those of the man of sin, 2 Th. 2:9. When they knew no better, they were influenced by his sorceries; but, when they were acquainted with Philip’s real miracles, they saw plainly that the one was real and the other a sham, and that there was as much difference as between Aaron’s rod and those of the magicians. What is the chaff to the wheat? Jer. 23:28.

    Thus, notwithstanding the influence Simon Magus had had upon them, and the unwillingness there generally is in people to own themselves in an error, and to retract it, yet, when they saw the difference between Simon and Philip, they quitted Simon, gave heed no longer to him, but to Philip: and thus you see,

    [2.] How strong the power of Divine grace is, by which they were brought to Christ, who is truth itself, and was, as I may say, the great undeceiver. By that grace working with the word those that had been led captive by Satan were brought into obedience to Christ. Where Satan, as a strong man armed, kept possession of the palace, and thought himself safe, Christ, as a stronger than he, dispossessed him, and divided the spoil; led captivity captive, and made those the trophies of his victory whom the devil had triumphed over. Let us not despair of the worst, when even those whom Simon Magus had bewitched were brought to believe.

    (2.) Here is another thing yet more wonderful, that Simon Magus himself became a convert to the faith of Christ, in show and profession, for a time. Is Saul also among the prophets? Yes (v. 13), Simon himself believed also. He was convinced that Philip preached a true doctrine, because he saw it confirmed by real miracles, of which he was the better able to judge because he was conscious to himself of the trick of his own pretended ones. [1.] The present conviction went so far that he was baptized, was admitted, as other believers were, into the church by baptism; and we have no reason to think that Philip did amiss in baptizing him, no, nor in baptizing him quickly. Though he had been a very wicked man, a sorcerer, a pretender to divine honours, yet, upon his solemn profession of repentance for his sin and faith in Jesus Christ, he was baptized. For, as great wickedness before conversion keeps not true penitents from the benefits of God’s grace, so neither should it keep professing ones from church-fellowship. Prodigals, when they return, must be joyfully welcomed home, though we cannot be sure but that they will play the prodigal again. Nay, though he was now but a hypocrite, and really in the gall of bitterness and bond of iniquity all this while, and would soon have been found to be so if he had been tried awhile, yet Philip baptized him; for it is God’s prerogative to know the heart. The church and its ministers must go by a judgment of charity, as far as there is room for it. It is a maxim in the law, Donec contrarium patet, semper praesumitur meliori parti-We must hope the best as long as we can. And it is a maxim in the discipline of the church, De secretis non judicat ecclesia-The secrets of the heart God only judges. [2.] The present conviction lasted so long that he continued with Philip. Though afterwards he apostatized from Christianity, yet not quickly. He courted Philip’s acquaintance, and now he that had given out himself to be some great one is content to sit at the feet of a preacher of the gospel. Even bad men, very bad, may sometimes be in a good frame, very good; and those whose hearts still go after their covetousness may possibly not only come before God as his people come, but continue with them. [3.] The present conviction was wrought and kept up by the miracles; he wondered to see himself so far outdone in signs and miracles. Many wonder at the proofs of divine truths who never experience the power of them.

    • ” for it was always Satan’s way to crush a good work in its bud and infancy”

      ^ The above quote from MH seems to describe about 95% of all Barbara’s posts.

      God bless you Tess

      • a Sheep~

        Because this is a Christian forum in which believers discuss the truth of the Word of God and how it is to be applied to our lives, I think that our comments should be a reflection of holy ground and not the play ground. If you have any intelligent comments or scholarly insights to bring to the table to refute what I have said, I welcome them.

        Barbara

    • Tess~

      Thank you for responding. Before I begin, I would appreciate it if you would edit the material that you post for me to read. I know that my posts are long, and I don’t mind reading long posts, but most of what you posted had absolutely nothing with what we are discussing. The portion of Henry’s commentary that you posted was on Acts 8:4-13, but the portion of Acts that refers to Simon the sorcerer is in verses 9-24. Not only did you post irrelevant information, you excluded much information that was relevant. Thanks!

      I’m not really sure of the importance of your telling me about the word “also” being inserted or why you think it is “interesting.” In fact, in the KJV, which you used as proof, the word “also” was not inserted because it is not in italics as was the method of the translators. If you look at the Greek, it is actually the word “kai” (Strong’s G2532) and it means “and.” However, even if we delete the word “also,” the meaning is the same. Can you tell me what significant difference there is in saying, “Then Simon himself believed” (that he believed by himself) over saying “Then Simon himself believed also” (that he believed along with other people)? The point is that he believed.

      You wrote, “AND the correlating scriptures show clearly that the position I took on belief without heart and commitment are not as some try to attempt to make them some kind “not biblical”. Tess, I think if you go back to my March 11 post, you will see that what you have written here doesn’t clearly reflect what I wrote. You were trying to prove that Simon wasn’t saved, that he only had an “intellectual conversion” and that both the mind and heart are needed for salvation. My response was not to refute the idea that the mind and heart are both needed, as you are now interpreting my comments, but to illustrate, first, that there is no such thing as an “intellectual conversion,” as you believe, and, secondly, that the very fact that Simon “believed” illustrates that he had both a mind and a heart belief because the word “pisteuo” (Strong’s G4100), means “marking entrance into a state…, I became a believer, a Christian, [A.V. believed]” (Thayer’s) illustrates that he was, indeed, saved. If you want to comment on what I actually said, I will be happy to address it.

      You cited a several verses beginning with Acts 8:21, but I am unclear as to the relevance to the topic we are discussing. Just because these verses are true doesn’t mean that we can arbitrarily attribute them to every other verse. Where, specifically, is the evidence in which you can credibly link them to what we read about Simon? You did cite one verse (v. 21) about him, but unfortunately, you have excluded the rest of the passage from consideration so your conclusions don’t reflect the whole counsel of God. Also, you included an excerpt about Simon being “the same who is mentioned by Josephus, as persuading Drusilla to leave her husband, and live with Felix.” What’s your point, here, that not only was he a sorcerer but that did other immoral deeds? We are sinners, Tess, and before we are saved, we sin because we are governed by sin, and Simon is no exception. An excerpt about me would reveal that I committed adultery, used drugs, stole, and made fun of people in addition to pride, selfishness, a wicked tongue, a deceitful heart, and the list goes on and on. Does this mean that I’m not saved? Now, if you can show me where he did this thing after he was saved, then that would be a different matter worthy of discussion.

      The rest of my comments will focus on your last paragraph. I’m not sure why you posted this portion of Henry’s commentary to support view because he disagrees with you that Simon wasn’t saved as you put forth in your March 10 post. In fact, his defense of Simon’s conversion into the body of Christ agrees with Scripture (Acts 8:13) and is evident in his comments: “For, as great wickedness before conversion keeps not true penitents from the benefits of God’s grace, so neither should it keep professing ones from church-fellowship,” and “…we have no reason to think that Philip did amiss in baptizing him, no, nor in baptizing him quickly.” Now, Henry does believe that Simon only believed for awhile and writes, “Though afterwards he apostatized from Christianity, yet not quickly,” but the question I have for you is where is the scriptural evidence for this assertion? While I, too, occasionally enjoy Matthew Henry’s insights on Scripture, we must be very careful that his teachings are checked daily against Scripture (Acts 17:11) in the very same way we are to check the teachings of our pastors, teachers, and all others. Where, I ask, is there any scriptural proof to support the idea that Simon apostatized? I went through the Acts’ verses that discuss Simon’s sin, Peter’s rebuke, and Simon’s appeal for prayer in my March 17 post, so I won’t repeat what I wrote here except to say that, because these verses neither state nor imply that Simon apostatized, we cannot claim that he did unless other verses attest to it, wouldn’t you agree? If you can find Scripture that proves Henry’s claim, then I will certainly apologize.

      I look forward to your comments about what I have written and pray that our eyes will be continually open to the Word and that God will grant us both wisdom and discernment.

      Have a blessed day~
      Barbara