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The First Coming of Jesus Foretold in the Dead Sea Scrolls

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Guest post by Justin Alfred

Previous posts in this series:

Not only is the first coming of Jesus prophecied throughout the Old Testament (see previous posts for examples), it is also foretold in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

In the Dead Sea Scrolls, we find what has been called by some a Messianic Apocalypse (4Q521), which dates back to the beginning of the 1st century BC at Qumran, some 100 years before Jesus’ birth. What we read in this Hebrew document from Qumran is a repeat of Psalm 146:7-8, Isaiah 35:5-6 and 61:1 regarding the work and ministry of the coming Messiah, as well as what Jesus said of Himself over a hundred years later in Luke 4:16-21 where He went into the synagogue in Nazareth and read Isaiah 61:1-2, telling the people that “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing” (Luke 4:21), and in 7:18-23 where Jesus responded to John’s disciples who were asking Him if He was indeed the coming Messiah:

16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. 17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book, and found the place where it was written, 18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are downtrodden, 19 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.” 20 And He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed upon Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.” (Luke 4:16-21)

18 And the disciples of John reported to him about all these things. 19 And summoning two of his disciples, John sent them to the Lord, saying, “Are You the Expected One, or do we look for someone else?” 20 And when the men had come to Him, they said, “John the Baptist has sent us to You, saying, ‘Are You the Expected One, or do we look for someone else?'” 21 At that very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He granted sight to many who were blind. 22 And He answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them. 23 “And blessed is he who keeps from stumbling over Me.” (Luke 7:18-23)

Concerning the second passage, John had already been imprisoned for rebuking Herod in public for having married his brother Philip’s wife (Matthew 14:3-5). As he was facing what he probably knew was going to be his death, coupled with all of the emotions that are related to one facing the end of his life, he was wanting to know for certain that Jesus, his cousin, was indeed the promised Messiah. Jesus responded by identifying Himself in a manner that made it abundantly clear that He was indeed the Promised Messiah by stating those things that were done through Him that identified Him as the Messiah.

Thus, we have two portions of Scripture in Luke in which Jesus was unequivocally proclaiming Himself to be the Promised Messiah. In the firs, He supported His claim by a direct reference to Scripture. In the next, although He didn’t quote any Scripture directly, He was clearly referring to the following passages in Psalms and in Isaiah that affirmed His Messiahship by the ministry being performed in and through Him:

7 Who executes justice for the oppressed; Who gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets the prisoners free. 8 The LORD opens the eyes of the blind; The LORD raises up those who are bowed down; The LORD loves the righteous; (Psa 146:7-8)

5 Then the eyes of the blind will be opened, And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped. 6 Then the lame will leap like a deer, And the tongue of the dumb will shout for joy. For waters will break forth in the wilderness And streams in the Arabah. (Isa 35:5-6 )

1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives, And freedom to prisoners; 2 To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD, And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn. (Isaiah 61:1-2)

It is at this point that the Messianic Apocalypse from the Dead Sea Scrolls comes into focus in a very important and major way. As I stated initially, this manuscript was written about 100 BC, and it tells what the coming Messiah will do:

And He will glorify the pious on the throne of the eternal Kingdom, He who liberates the captives, restores sight to the blind, straightens the b[ent] (Ps. 146:7–8 – my note). And f[or] ever I will clea[ve to the h]opeful and in His mercy … And the fr[uit …] will not be delayed for anyone and the Lord will accomplish glorious things which have never been as [He …] For He will heal the wounded, and revive the dead and bring good news to the poor. (Vermes, Geza:The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English, Revised and extended 4th ed. [Sheffield : Sheffield Academic Press, 1995], 412-413)

As we look at all of the above, you will notice that I underlined the things that are attributed to Jesus’ Messiahship in the Old Testament passages, as well as what Jesus attributed to Himself in Luke 7:22. It is this portion that we will use as our guide, along with His quotation of Isaiah 61:1-2 in Luke 4:18-19: (1) “blind receive sight”; (2) “lame walk”; (3) “lepers are cleansed”; (4) “deaf hear”; (5) “dead are raised up”; (6) and the “poor have the gospel preached to them.” (7) “release to the captives”; (8) “set free those who are downtrodden”; (9) “proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”

As we look at these nine aspects of the things Jesus attributed to Himself as demonstrating His Messiahship to the people, I am going to list beside them where they are found in other Old Testament passages (Psalms and Isaiah), as well as the Messianic Apocalypse, in order to show you that those at Qumran clearly understood the role, purpose, and meaning of the first coming of Jesus, and they were only 100 years out from His being born! The significance of their prophecy, in my opinion, is that it was born of God and in complete agreement concerning the person of the coming Messiah:

  1. “blind receive sight” – Luke 7:22; Psalm 146:8; Isaiah 35:5; Messianic Apocalypse 2) “lame walk” – Luke 7:22; Isaiah 53:6
  2. “lepers are cleansed” – Luke 7:22
  3. “deaf hear” – Luke 7:22; Isaiah 35:5
  4. “dead are raised up” – Luke 7:22; Messianic Apocalypse
  5. “poor have the Gospel preached to them” – Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:18; Luke 7:22; Messianic Apocalypse
  6. “release to the captives” – Luke 4:18; Isaiah 61:1; Messianic Apocalypse
  7. “set free those who are downtrodden” – Luke 4:18; Isaiah 61:1(“brokenhearted”); Psalm 146:8; Messianic Apocalypse (“straitens the bent” & “heal the wounded”)
  8. proclaim the favorable year of the Lord” – Luke 4:19; Isaiah 61:2

Therefore, as we can see from our analysis, the Scripture is replete with accurate and specific prophecies of Jesus first coming, and even the Messianic Apocalypse was accurate in its anticipation of the coming Messiah—His role and ministry.

Comments

  1. Justin~

    Thank you for providing this information as another witness. I did a quick study sometime ago on just how many witnesses mankind has been given testifying to the truth. God, indeed, does not desire that any should perish, and in His lovingkindness provided ample proof so that He can stand as righteous judge because man is truly without excuse.

    Have a blessed day~
    Barbara

  2. I’ve been singing that song “The Spirit of the Lord is now upon me” all morning. Great song, and wonderful words, straight from Isaiah!

  3. With regard to the Luke 7:19 passage, the King James Version says, “And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?” The “another” would be another coming, not another Messiah, because John had already properly identified Jesus as the Messiah in John 1:29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” Thus, in Luke 7, John is not doubting that Jesus is the Messiah, but he is asking if there will be a second coming in which the kingdom will be established, since it does not appear that Jesus is setting up the kingdom in His first coming. Jesus’ answer is that there will be another coming, because He is only doing physical healings and giving the gospel. He is not executing God’s wrath, which takes place at His second coming.

    • Eric~

      How can you say that “another” is referring to “another coming” when it is plainly written, “Art thou HE that should come”? (caps mine). Yes, John knew that Jesus was the Messiah, yet you need to consider that he was in prison during this time, and like all of us in trying situations that seem to contradict what we know to be true, we start doubting, and we even have 2,000 years of history and biblical studies and personal narratives and millions upon millions of fellow believers at our disposal as proof and support.

      Please, and I don’t mean to be cruel, here, but if you can’t even read what is plainly written, that the word “he” refers to Christ and the word “another” refers Christ, how can you presume to be able to rightly divide the rest of the Word? You mentioned once that you were preparing a sermon, which would suggest that you are a pastor. I don’t know where you got your theological training, but it was not from a school that teaches correct biblical exegesis. I know you are thoroughly convinced that you are right, but Luke 7:19 isn’t a verse that is subject to diverse and confusing interpretations because it is laden with figurative language. Yes, it does take thinking outside the text. We should question why would John be asking a question like this given his previous experiences and statements. However, whatever options we consider, they cannot be distanced from the text as you have done here.

      I will continue to pray that the Lord will direct your path to a church that upholds sound biblical study and truth.

      Barbara

      • I think we also have to consider Isaiah 61:1-3: “The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.”

        That is what OT prophecy said the Messiah would do, John the Baptist did not see Jesus doing all those things, and so he questioned it. Jesus’ answer, then, is to show him that, yes, there will be another coming of Messiah, because all you are seeing right now is the gospel being preached and people being healed. You do not see most of verses 2-3.

        Granted, it is possible that John the Baptist would have doubts, as we all do, but just reading through the verses, I do not see doubt in John the Baptist. Also, this man had opposition before, and he never backed down. We also do not see him backing down after he was arrested by Herod, such that he was beheaded. John’s attitude, his history, and the verses in Luke 9 all point to his asking if there would be another coming of Messiah. He is not doubting Jesus is the Messiah. He is just asking if Jesus will come back and finish what Isaiah 61:1-3 said Messiah would do.

        With regard to my background, you should be wary of anyone who pastors a church based upon a seminary degree. Our authority is the word of God, not what man says the word of God says. Also, I am not taught by man. I am taught by the indwelling Holy Spirit (I Corinthians 2:10-14). As Paul says in II Corinthians 3:1 “Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some [others], epistles of commendation to you, or [letters] of commendation from you?” Paul’s commendation was the changed lives of the Corinthians. That’s what all teachers of the word should be pointing to, not some seminary degree, because there are a lot of liberal seminaries out there that do not believe the word of God.

    • Eric,

      I see your point, and at the risk of being “katakrinō” by “allos”, after reading Thayer’s Lexicon, the traditional translation to English as “another” is by no means conclusive and open for other interpretations. Not that Thayer’s is a conclusive work of its self.

      J.

      Ps, I wonder what our linguistic expert has to say.

      • Jerry~

        While I’m certainly no linguist, the only definition I found for “allos” is another of the same or similar type, contrasted with “heteros,” another of a different class or type.

        Barbara

          • Jerry~

            In your above post, you defined “allos” as merely “another,” but it is far more specific than that. The complete definitions of “allos” and “heteros” illustrate that the word “another” is modified; it is not supposed to be understood by itself. Yes, the English word “another” may not be “conclusive and open for other interpretations,” but the Greek words “allos” and “heteros” are not, and I gave the modifications that I found. Since you have told me to “just keep seeking,” you obviously know something that I don’t know, and I’m sure there are others who don’t know either. Because we are all responsible to provide a biblical foundation for what we believe, would you please provide the Scripture verse in which “allos” means something other than what I found?

            Thank you~
            Barbara

          • Jerry~

            Why are you, again, telling me to “Take it to the LORD” in lieu of giving an answer, especially one in which you, apparently, have one? No one else has treated your questions with such casual dismissal, and you haven’t told anyone else to just take it to the Lord when they’ve asked. If we’re not to ask questions because “HE holds the answers to all our questions,” then why aren’t you taking your questions directly to Him rather than to Justin and Chris and others on this site?

            Barbara

          • Barb []

            ~ ahhhh because I’m replying to you and not replying to myself or other commentors…??
            J.

          • Jerry~

            My comments are clear, but if you want, I will rephrase them. I asked you a question about something you wrote, and rather than answer it, you told me to “Take it to the LORD” because “HE holds the answers to our questions.” I then made a comment and asked a question. My comment was that no one dismisses you when you ask a question, and my question was if God has all the answers, then why do you ask Justin, Chris, and others questions rather than go to Him like you have told me to do? I just think it is odd, especially from a believer, to refuse to answer another believer’s question. In addition, it seems that you think It is okay for you to ask questions from others and expect answers, but you don’t feel the need to answer the questions asked of you about things that you put forth as truth or, in this case, imply as truth, that the word “allos” means more than what I found. If you know something and someone asks you about it, why on Earth would you refuse to tell it?

            Barbara

          • Jerry~

            You won’t give an answer to another believer because Martha busied herself with chores, and Mary sat at the feet of Jesus? If Jesus didn’t expect us to receive instruction from others, He wouldn’t have given us teachers (Eph. 4:11). As I’ve written before, those who have the truth are more than willing to share it. Sadly, I see nothing different here than in past attempts to have you actually provide any proof for what you write. I will continue to pray for you, Jerry.

            Barbara

  4. Hi Justin I’ve tried to email you on your website but I haven’t gotten any response from you, you seem to be a tuff guy to get in touch with. I’m hoping I’ll eventually catch you at the right time maybe this is it now see I’m tryin to figure out what Christ meant by he who endures to the end will be saved and if we disown him he will disown us…what about peter?

    God bless you
    Chase

    • They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, THEY WOULD HAVE CONTINUED WITH US. If one is truly saved his faith will be sustained to the end by God.

      • Noah~

        A person’s faith will only be sustained by a choice to continually follow Christ, not by any initial commitment one has made. As II Timothy 1:12b says, “[God] is able to keep that WHICH I HAVE COMMITTED TO HIM against that day” (caps mine). You have eliminated scores of verses to reach your conclusion, most notably the ones about enduring and overcoming and finishing the race and bearing fruit. Please take the time to root out the truth of God’s Word. That a person can be “truly saved” and end up in hell is one of the most thoroughly documented truths in the entire Bible.

        I will be praying that as you go to God in prayer, study, and fasting that He will reveal His truth to you.

        God bless you in all spiritual things~
        Barbara

    • Chase, Hebrews 9:27 makes the statement that we all have an appointment with an end. I realize we each have our ups and downs but the content of our heart even in our deepest hurts or biggest mistakes is did we disown Messiah. Grace is the ability of God to keep us which is found and applied after the cross. The Law on the other hand is before the cross and focuses on our ability. It is not nor has ever been through our ability because then man will glory in what man has done. Grace is applied from Daddy God through His Son, Jesus the Messiah by the fluid motion of The Holy Spirit. Thus our God in retains the shekinah glory and by Grace shares because we abide in Him. Here is a simple test…have you ever tried to memorize and retain quickly the ten commandments? For example…without thinking tell me the 7th commandment. And have you ever tried to memorize and quickly retain John 3:16? The reason I ask is Grace is in John 3:16 and The Holy Spirit will quicken you in Grace. Besides, as our Messiah spoke…if we keep love, we have kept the ten.

      Shalom,
      Mark (Cov)

      • Thanks Mark I can easily quote new testament scripture without hesitation but i kinda struggle on the ten commandments but i know what they are just not in the right order, and yes I have accepted Christ I know he’s the messiah but I worry I about whether i endured or not and then I see revelations 2:8 and think if these followers of Christ did not die for him they would be hurt by the second death and I look at my self and think I wasnt even facing death or persecution and I so disgustingly sinned towards my savior. But I’m hoping the fact I still feel conviction when I sin is a sign that I did not sin beyond God’s grace but I’m still not sure…

        • Chase, He will never leave you or forsake you ! The Holy Spirit indwells in us when we invite him in, the Lord said he would send another Helper and he will be with you forever. I ask the Holy Spirit to Fill me up daily and I know he does, and I feel Him. He’s is there for all who love him…Let this enter your heart and become etched on it because above all, There is Love….

          Proverbs 10:12
          Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

          Love never fails, when we learn to Love Him we can rest assured no matter what “He wont Let go of you…….He didn’t loose even one of those and he wont loose you if you love him….. 🙂

          • Donna~

            You are right. He will never leave us or forsake us, but God’s people most certainly can leave and forsake Him as the example of over 2 million Israelites dying in the wilderness and never entering the Promised Land proves. Having the indwelling Holy Spirit neither guarantees our salvation nor prohibits our exercising our free will. As I Corinthians 14:32 says, “And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.” Please think about something for a moment. If it weren’t possible to ignore the leading of the Holy Spirit, why are believers warned, “Quench not the Spirit” (I Th. 5:19)? It must be kept in mind, too, that there is no cap to quenching the Spirit, that God will stop us at some point. That’s the point of having the Holy Spirit. It’s His job to warn us that we are sinning and that we need to get back on track with God. However, it is solely our job to either respond or to ignore that warning, and God will never ever interfere with that.

            Have a blessed day~
            Barbara

          • Thanks Donna ya I know his word say he will never leave us nor forsake us but iknow it also says in revelations only the remenant that have not soiled their robes will be saved and on top of that Christ said those who endure will be saved so thats why im struggling with assurance.

            -Chase

          • Chase,
            Is there any human in the bible apart from Jesus who has not sinned? First fruits are special yet the rest are not then discarded.

            Rev 7:9-17

            Take heart from the number of scriptures that show the love of God rather than the lone example of

            Rev 14:1-5, Eph 3:14-21

          • Chase~

            What you are talking about is different than the unpardonable sin. The Bible does not teach eternal security; it very much teaches that one has to “endure to the end” (Matt. 24:13), just one of the scores of verses and passages that dispel the idea of once saved, always saved. However, this does not mean that we don’t sin or don’t draw back sometimes, and when we do, we have an advocate in Jesus Christ (I Jn. 2:1). If we take the idea that one has to “endure to the end” to mean that there can be no sin or setbacks, then no one would be saved. Enduring means pressing on through our sin by repentance and pressing on through our trials by crucifying the flesh, which is what Paul was talking about in I Corinthians 9:24, which says, “Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.” Unfortunately, too many people in the body of Christ believe that entering the race is the same as finishing it, but Paul puts that thought to rest a couple verses down when he says, “But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway” (v. 27). The word “castaway” (adokimos, Strong’s G96) means “that which does not prove itself such as it ought…unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate.” Paul’s use of the pronoun “I” illustrates that he knew that it was not rewards that would be lost but he himself. While believers know that they are in the covenant of grace, some of them fail to realize is that this is not a one-way ticket to heaven. Upon being born again, we have entered into a covenant with God, a covenant being a legal agreement between two parties. This means that God has to uphold certain stipulations, and believers have to uphold certain stipulations. Obviously, God is always faithful, but believers have been given the free will to be faithful or not, and there are consequences for that, good and bad. When Scripture is read in this light, that each party is responsible to do certain things in order to keep the covenant valid and in-force, then Scripture can be reconciled like it is supposed to be (II Tim. 3:16), meaning that there are no contradictions between Hebrews 6:19 and Revelation 3:5.

            God bless you in all spiritual things as you continue to see the truth of His Word.

            Barbara

        • Your welcome Chase and I hope I made sense. Take a note from the travels of Israel as they left Egypt. They slipped and murmured the whole way and yet by Grace God kept a watch over them by day and night. Daddy God fed them and their clothes stayed intact during the travels. It was not until the big ten big did judgment play a major role in their daily life.

          The act of Jesus on the cross brought Grace back into full play. That is why I placed the comment about memorizing the big ten. It is almost as if The Holy Spirit will not help me to memorize it but I have been able to quote John 3:16 since I was a kid. The Holy Spirit desires we move and have our being in Grace, not The Law. Jesus fulfilled The Law. It is our part to remain in His rest. And in His rest is much Grace.

          If we respond, not react, to others in love then we truly have kept the law. How can a man love his neighbor and steal, for example. And by Grace we are forgiven of all sin…past, present, and the future. In other words Jesus does not have to re-die each time we mess up. And keep in mind, just as a child must mature in the natural so must we in the spirit. I would be remiss if I asked a baby to run a marathon. And so it is with Daddy God. He does expect us to mature over night. He will not force and squeeze the child into clothes that don’t fit.

          So, take a deep breath and rest. Learn to wear your own skin so to speak. Reach out to Daddy God and know Grace will keep you. A baby is safe and nourished in the womb. A child is protected and provided for in the home. As a child of God, what is or should be in the natural is a fact in The Household of Faith.

          Be of good cheer…..for you are loved by The Most High.

          Shalom,
          Mark (Cov)

        • Bob, Well Said, and Chase you are welcome.

          I have one last coment to add to you Chase and I feel it’s important to share.

          I had commited many aweful sins in my old life, many of which would curl most long time Christains toes and make many cringe.

          With that being said, there was a point when the LORD, Our Father said, “STOP” doubting my words and condeeming yourself, speaking death over yourself.

          You must just choose.
          To Accept My Forgiveness,
          Accept My Unwarranted Grace,
          Accept My Unbelievable Mercy or they aren’t what My Word says they are !
          My Ways are not your ways!
          My Thoughts are not Your Thoughts!
          My Love is Unfailing !
          I AM THAT I AM !
          I Made You !
          I Formed You !
          I Forenew You !

          My Blood Covers You, but YOU MUST ACCEPT ITS POWER & GRACE ! Without question or reason..

          It was weird for a moment it became as if I was holding a doll (a rejected broken doll), I had held onto my shame, guilt,rejection and hurt so long that I literally had to hand it to him spiritually and just STOP picking it back up!!! I mean never go back to it and play with it.. It is done, left at the cross.

          Like Bob said, look at the WHOLE context of the Entire Bible before you Judge Yourself as that is not your job to jusdge, it says there is but one Judge!

          Your Job is simply put is as Duet 6:5 says

          YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND ALL YOUR SOUL AND WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT.

          I can testify if you will simply get your eyes off yourself and what you have done, Seek Him first, He has you in His hand right there with the rest of us who Love Him That Way…

          Nothing and no amount of encouragement we all give will help you unless you choose to just Accept that His Grace and Mercy are just that “unwarranted Gifts”.

          To whom much is given much is required, I bet He has something extrodinary for you to testify to those of this lost world about.

          Think about that and be like me “FREE”

          Choose the Life he has extended to you and accept you are not currently and maybe never going to understand it fully nor where you even possibly created to.

          We are children, its a journey, we have yet to arrive. Love Him and Let Him Word out the Details 🙂

          Be Blessed & Be Loved
          Donna

          • Ha Funny, I messed up the last line Let Him Word out the details, 🙂 Too Funny, How about let Him Work out the details with His Word, He is GOD

          • Donna~

            Your testimony is a very powerful witness to God’s forgiveness, and I pray that Chase will heed what you have said and that he will truly grasp the grace that we have been given by a loving God, that he needs to “get [his] eyes off [him]self and what [he] has done” as you have written. That said, when you say, “You must just choose,” how do you reconcile that with your belief that a believer cannot lose his or her salvation? In other words, doesn’t the word “choose” imply alternatives? Can one only choose to accept something, or doesn’t the ability to choose mean that we can also choose to reject something?

            Have a blessed day~
            Barbara

          • Barbara, now that is the witness of true belief. Yes, there is no limit to God. We sin and refuse God with unbelief. We must believe Him. This world has only one purpose, to prove the glory of God. There is too much, “me” in us. Jhn 15

          • Donna, just now on the reread I see that you are the withness of true belief that I had attributed to Barbara. You know.

            As to Barbara, we are not of the same understanding in one of the things of God yet we agree regarding salvation. No one can remove us from the hand of God but we can choose to leave. Choice is the image of God. God will not be mocked or shamed, He will not force obedience yet He will forgive us every time we request His forgiveness.

          • Bob~

            I am somewhat confused at what you have said in these two posts. Because the only thing I wrote about was choice in salvation, how can you simultaneously say that “we are not of the same understanding in one of the things of God” but “yet we agree regarding salvation”?

            Thanks~
            Barbara

          • B’arbara, God is not confused nor described by a doctine. You and me differ on His Boeing. There is no trinity. God is one and I expect to worship Him with you and all the other members of the Body of Christ commenting in this blog.

          • Bob~

            Thank you for clarifying what you meant. I just have one, quick question. I don’t know if you read my post above to Tess, so I’ll rephrase some of it here. In the NT (Matt. 3:1-3), we are told that John the Baptist is heralding the coming of the Lord, Whom we know to be Jesus Christ. In the OT, the prophesy of this event is written as follows: “The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God” (Is. 40:3). The “Jewish Virtual Library” uses the words “HaShem” and “G-D.” Please explain how we are to understand the Isaiah verse if there is no Trinity. Thank you.

            Your sister in Christ~
            Barbara

          • Barbara, He is Lord, He is Messiah, He is I AM, He is also identified by names describing His actions.

          • Bob~

            Well, if Jesus is “I AM” and Isaiah 40:3 refers to Jesus as “LORD,” which is Yahweh, then He is God. If the Father is God and Jesus is God, that’s two out of three, so even if we don’t bring the Holy Spirit into the equation for a minute, how do reconcile the Father and the Son both being God with your view that God is a numerical one?

            Thanks~
            Barbara

          • Barbara, God is more intimately us than our distracted selves presume.
            We are so caught up with this world that we are blinded in unbelief. Look about. Humans are lost, dead, unless awakened by God.
            Jhn 12:30
            We do not comprehend Spirit but try to know of that existence as we know our own physical life. The key, the salvation of this world proclaimed before its foundation is in fact the flesh, the perfect propitiation conceived and inhabitied by God.

          • Bob~

            There is a big difference between the statements that “God is more intimately us,” which you wrote, and God is more intimately IN us, and I am hoping that you meant the latter because the other is blasphemy. That God dwells in Christ no more makes Christ God than it makes us God because He dwells in us, and your last statement doesn’t prove otherwise. In Isaiah 40:3, He is clearly referred to as LORD and God, the Tanach reading Hashem and G-D. There is nothing that even implies that it means that God is merely in Him. In John 10:33, when the Jews accused Him of blasphemy because He “makest thyself God,” had He not been God, He most certainly would have corrected them, but He didn’t. In Revelation 1:8, Jesus claims to the “the Almighty” (pantokrator, Strong’s G3841), which means “he who holds sway over all things; the ruler of all; almighty: of God.” Is He lying?

            Barbara

          • Barbara, I have refrained from this discussion rather than enter into protracted blogging. There was a cogent, accurate presentation in a previous blog early this month i think where the commenter is recognized by an educational degree, as a father etc… We disagree about Mat 28:19 and the singular name, or John 14:18 and many other scriptures which is what I meant at the outset of this trinity discussion. I do admit that this is a more casual answer than what is preferred yet we have trespassed this forum enough. We can arrange to address this doctrine in a more thorough discussion apart from this blog if you so desire.

          • Bob~

            While I appreciate the offer to discuss this outside this blog, I don’t seem to do well on that. I tried it once, but I didn’t keep up with it even past the first couple exchanges. I don’t know why it’s different than posting on this blog, but for me it is. Maybe we can pick it up later if I feel that I will actually stay on top of it.

            I think the biggest problem that I have is that those who disagree with the Trinity don’t seem to be able to reasonably dismantle the arguments that are put forth in favor of it. For example, you gave a couple of verses that you believe disprove the Trinity, but you didn’t even try to address what I said, and those examples were very straight forward.

            I looked at the two blogs that discuss the Trinity (7th, 11th), but neither of these are what you are referring to. Do you have any other idea where it might be? Thanks!

            Your sister in Christ~
            Barbara

          • Bob~

            Thank you for directing me to the post. Did you read it? I ask because it is very much in support of the Trinity. In fact, one of the sections is entitled, “ The Trinity: An Essential Doctrine,”

            Now, if I may, there is a greater concern that I have about this article, and that it uses the phrase “the church” in reference to the Catholic Church founded by Constantine when it is not only not “the” church, it isn’t even “a” church. Despite his so-called “conversion,” we can see by looking back through history and into today that Constantine’s tolerance and even participation in the long-held pagan practices while, at the same time, claiming he was a Christian and incorporating elements of Christianity into Roman life, illustrates just how massive of a mistake his failed attempt at political correctness was. If the Bible teaches one truth, it is God and Satan don’t meet anywhere on the road, and the mysticism and paganism that was the foundation of the Catholic Church is still its foundation, and we are told that “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (I Cor. 3:11).

            I know how saying something negative about the Catholic Church is offensive to some, those in Catholicism and some without, but let me say that in coming out of Mormonism, I am acutely aware of what comprises false religion, especially false Christian religion. We need to exercise wisdom and discernment when determining whether a group is truly Christian or not. While it is true that we don’t know another person’s heart, nowhere does the Bible say that we need to. What the Bible does tell is that we know people by their fruits (Matt. 7:20) and by their works (Jas. 2). All things considered, we know whether people are Christians by what they believe, say, and do. The primary thing to remember is that one must look beyond initial declarations because, just like counterfeit money, counterfeit Christian churches will also say things and present themselves as the real thing with regard to what is expected without too much examination being put forth. For example, no one is going to counterfeit a purple five-dollar bill or a ten-dollar bill with Ronald Regan’s picture on it because they are obviously wrong. Counterfeiters will be spot on with what first meets are eyes. It’s only when one gets beyond the façade that it can be truly determined whether a bill is false, and the same holds true for religions. The pretense that, unfortunately, many people don’t get past is the RCC declarations that they are sinners in need of a Savior and that the Savior is Jesus Christ. They go to church on Sunday like the majority of Christians, they use a Bible, albeit their own, and they display a cross, a symbol of Christianity. It is only when their broader declarations are examined, when their practices are shown in biblical light, and when their history is looked at honestly, that we can confidently know that the RCC is a pseudo-Christian religion, despite some of their churches adding the word “evangelical” to their titles, something Christians have been far to happy to accept. I’ve gone to many of these sites, and every single one of them had a link to Rome, so their idea of spreading the gospel is to spread the Catholic gospel, one in which Mary, the “Queen of Heaven” and “[M]other of God” is the sinless, co-redemptrix with Christ to be worshipped, the one in which they are drinking the literal blood and eating the literal flesh of Christ during communion, the one in which there is a purgatory of second chances, etc., etc. I have an entire list of other beliefs and practices that I would be happy to post if anyone is interested.

            The bottom line is that the body of Christ needs to wake up to the fact that the RCC isn’t, and never has been, what it claims. We need to wake up to the fact that it has an agenda, that its sole desire is not only for us to accept them as “Catholic Christians” but to bring us into its fold. If you doubt this, go online to the transcript of Vatican II, and you will, at some point, come across the statement that, while the RCC acknowledges the rest of us as brothers and sisters in Christ, they refer to us as “incomplete.” That’s right, our confession of faith toward Christ and our walk with Him is “incomplete.” Can anyone guess what would, in the eyes of the RCC, make us complete? Well, according to them, it would be to be brought into subjection to them, to become one of them, which gives a great deal of light as to why it is the RCC that is always the one pushing for ecumenical unity.

            Just so I am not misunderstood, I do believe that there are Catholics who have been born again but have not yet left the Catholic Church. I have a very dear friend who had received Christ as her Savior, but it took her three years to get out of Mormonism. Such is the power of Satan. No one, however, can remain in the RCC if truly saved. II Corinthians 6:14-18 says, “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”

            As the true body of Christ, we are to not only “contend for the faith” (Jude 1:3b), but we need to reach out, in love and prayer, for the 1BILLION people who are in bondage to a religion that will result in their eternal damnation.

            Barbara

          • Please see the comments on the 14th that recognize God and refute trinity doctrine. Our discussion involved the substitution of doctrine for the being of God.
            Religion is a bane and a blessing. This doctrine is an example of the bane that alters the original, preserves that deception beyond the current witnesses to rehearse the lie to seekers of subsequent generations. You do identify the problem that plagued the temple, denominations and individual churches where purposes divert from the testimony of Jesus. You cannot find the word trinity in the Bible.

            1Cr 1:12-13, 1Cr 3:1-7

            The cornucopia of denominations does appear to desiccate the expected fruit. The divided message is an additional impediment for those who work to impart the biblical revelation of who and what we are to a skeptical audience. Churches are storehouses and indeed places of worship. The comfort and support of these places, exclusiveness and too much religion however divert the testimony of Christian sects. Christians are discomforted with the inherent message of their creator. They are stalled in solace and comfort. Commonly Christians commit less than the whole effort necessary to share the gospel of salvation lest they offend. There is finality to opportunity. A quiet example and loving spirit must eventually hazard the fire to preach the treasure of God.

            Act 13:38-41, Jhn 3:7

          • The problem is at least 4 dimensional. Physical, chronological, spatial and spiritual
            Eph 3:14-21

          • Bob~

            I will read them, but it will have to wait several days. I promised Eric several weeks ago that I would address works and grace, and I have let myself get sidetracked with other posts. I need to take care of that and then I will get back to our discussion.

            Have a blessed week~
            Barbara

            P.S. Also, this thread is getting way too long. I will post my comments as a new entry.

          • Barbara, you have said that people drop out of the discussion inferring that they were unable to refute your position. There is a spirit of challenge and contention that prevents and stops. Do a word search, “is preached” that is quite illuminating. Your industry and time given to scripture is endearing to me.

        • You as well Sis…..I speak baruck atah shalom alechem. Enjoy breathing deep the fragrance of The Holy Spirit. :>)

          Mark (Cov)

        • Barbara, There’s not a reply on your last comment so I will reply here, who knows where it will show up 🙂

          He says He will never fail me or forsake me.

          I guess in the terms of losing ones Salvation the free willed human could choose to reject Father and His ways. However even Soloman the wisest man ever did not listen and forsook the Lord even did evil in His eyes and suffered the consequences of it and had everything Father had given him taken away but not in His lifetime due to Davids Love Of Father.

          We don’t get the rest of the story though, so I guess I will find out in Heaven if Solomon is there or not, what father did in His case, He had been warned multiple times by Father of what not to do but He didn’t listen.

          Now we have the Blood, Our Christ and Saviour.

          He still says if we turn from our wicked ways and repent and choose to turn back to Him to Love Him, Accept Him as our Savior we are saved and forgiven.

          That was His promise and that is His Gracious Love for us. That is His gift our way of overcoming death. The unwarranted Grace we must accept not earn.

          Now with that said the verse,
          John 14:16-17 comes to mind when Jesus said “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

          How can we fail if He is in us ? He said not one perished that His Father had given Him except the son of perdition.

          Maybe He never leaves or loses us we just leave him or lose Him. I know this that everytime I sin, lose faith, get doubt, or just get frustrated or mad, I get separated from the Holy Spirit and I can’t hear him, feel him, and sometimes I feel I can’t find him, but it was me who left, got side tracked, or lost.

          He never moved I just got separated from him, lost in the crowd so to speak. Ran out into the clearing without Him.
          Everytime I run back, seek Him, Cry for Him, He’s there though 🙂

          Maybe thats what Paul meant when he said in Phil 2:12-13 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
          for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

          Father has recently shown me that Wisdom truly is the “Fear of the Lord”, Fear of that Separation, Fear of His disapointment in me.

          Which brings us full circle to the other Blogs about greiving the Holy Spirit and Heeding that still small voice of His Leading..

          I am going to paraphrase, He says I Chose you, you didn’t choose me. He says He forenew us, predestined us, justified us, that is those who Love Him and are called According to His Purpose.

          Maybe since these words were spoken to the disciples and the churches they are different than to a common man. Not sure but I know they apply to me.

          However for me and my current understanding, if GOD is Love, and the Word says He is. He is My daddy, and If I seek Him with all My Heart I will find Him, and if I Love Him with All My Heart He will Love Me That settles it for me.

          He will walk it out with me no matter how many times I mess up, sin, take a wrong turn.

          He will Pick me up, dust me off, and Help me walk out my own personal salvation. Why because I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART 🙂

          If He didn’t that would be cruel and He’s not cruel so it has to be that way. He will Never Let Me Go, I feel He has hold of me above my wrist not my hand that is way I can’t let go and He can have a firm grip on me….Now I had to let Him get that Hold by submitting to Him and I did.

          Maybe I suffer consequences here on earth of my actions, sins, attitudes. The reep what you sow thing. But I believe He will never Lose Me or let go of me as Long as I Love Him from a Pure Heart.

          That’s My promise with My Salvation in His Son My Christ and Savior.

          We all have different callings I know mine is all about His Love. His Love Saved My Life…

          Your Sis in Christ
          Donna

          • Donna~

            Thank you for responding. While I understand the position you have put forth, I think some of your examples and reasoning need to be brought into better alignment with the Word, so I am going to give a few other things for you to consider and would very much appreciate your feedback.

            When you use the phrase, a “free-willed human,” you are acknowledging that there are people who could, as you wrote, “reject Father and His ways,” as though a “free-willed” person is somehow different that a person who has “free will.” The bottom line is that we were given the free will to accept or reject God and His ways initially and at every point in our walk. That’s what free will is. There is no other definition or application.

            You brought up Solomon doing evil in the site of the Lord and that we don’t know the rest of the story. Why did you stop at Solomon? A great portion of the OT chronicles the evil done in the eyes of the LORD by individual Israelites and by the entire nation of Israel, and we know that whenever they repented of their great evil, God forgave them. However, we also know from the OT that God’s chosen people can, indeed, lose their salvation because over two million of them, in just one example, did just that. With all due respect, you are trying to prove that believers cannot lose their salvation, and you have used Solomon as an example of a person who sinned terribly, but you aren’t even sure if he is saved or not, so this cannot be looked upon as proof of eternal security, can it? One of the best proofs that Solomon did repent before he died is that he is credited with writing two books, something that would not happen if he was an apostate because II Peter 1:21 tells us, “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.”
            It is true that “He says He will never fail me or forsake me,” but can you give even one verse that says that we cannot “fail or forsake” Him? If you read my February 26 post to Chase, I discuss how covenants work. Also, look up the word “forsake” in the concordance for this verse. It’s not about merely sinning or getting frustrated.

            You wrote, “Now we have the Blood, Our Christ and Saviour. He still says IF we turn from our wicked ways and repent and choose to turn back to Him to Love Him, Accept Him as our Savior we are saved and forgiven.” YES, Donna, I agree, an absolute YES! It is, just as you have written, IF “we turn” and IF we “repent” and IF we “CHOOSE” to turn back” (caps mine). That is “His promise,” and it is not a single, born-again experience; it is a daily experience.

            You wrote, “How can we fail if [the Spirit of truth] is in us?” We can fail IF we don’t “turn,” IF we don’t “repent,” IF we don’t “choose to turn back.” It is called quenching the Holy Spirit (I Th. 5:19), and as I wrote somewhere else, Scripture gives no cap on believers doing this, that at some point God will intervene and prevent them from doing it further. He will turn up the heat, but He will never force believers, at any point in their walk, to make a specific decision about salvation. That, as the example in the Garden of Eden proves, He leaves up to His creation. As I have written before, if there ever was a time for God to use His sovereignty to trump mankind’s free will with regard to salvation, that would have been the time, yet He allowed man to choose and reap the consequences although it resulted in sending the entire cosmos into sin and death.

            You wrote, “He said not one perished that His Father had given Him except the son of perdition.” I’m sure that you’ll agree that we need to interpret Scripture in context. This verse, John 17:12, must be understood within the whole chapter. In it, Jesus offers up three prayers, one for Himself (vv. 1-5), one for His disciples (vv. 6-19), and one for all believers (vv. 20-26). The verse that you cited is in reference only to the disciples as is not meant to be understood as a declaration that out of everyone whom the “Father had given Him” that only Judas was lost although, because Jesus no longer had him, it does prove that believers can lose their salvation. In this verse, Jesus is saying that the Father had given Him Judas, meaning that he was saved, but that he was subsequently lost. Many times, in an effort to prove that Judas was not really saved to begin with, some people cite John 6:70, which says, “Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” You will notice that the verb is in the present tense; Judas “is” a devil, not “was” a devil, putting to rest the very real problem of explaining why Jesus Christ would have chosen a devil to represent Him as God’s love, light, life, and truth on Earth to bring people into a saving relationship with God.

            You gave several examples of your behavior (sin, doubt, frustration) and several explanations to prove that Jesus doesn’t forsake you when you do these things. You are right, and I never said He did, evidenced by the numerous times that I have cited I John 2:1. You defend your position by saying that He isn’t “cruel,” yet, in using this word, you are suggesting that I do think that, so much so that He would elevate the salvation bar so unreasonably high that absolutely no one could possibly be saved because we all sin, doubt, and get frustrated. I never stated nor implied that, in doing these things, that believers will lose their salvation. What I have always said is that people can, through continued apathy and rebellion, lose it, but those who hold to eternal security have never argued the issue from these scripturally-supported points. Sadly, it always becomes a debate about sin and works and God’s unfailing love.

            I think that you can better understand my view when you read that post I wrote to Chase on the covenants, but basically Jesus will never leave us because He is faithful; that is a part of His eternal nature. However, as you very well know, we have to choose to be faithful, and if we’ve been given the free will to choose to be faithful, then we have been given the free to choose not to be. That is why we were given the admonition that you referred to, that of not grieving the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30). It is precisely because we can, and we can do so until we are no longer sensitive to His leading. You apparently are because you wrote, “He will Pick me up, dust me off, and Help me walk out my own personal salvation. Why because I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART.” That’s exactly my point. When you think or say or do something you aren’t supposed to, you are convicted, and you turn back to Him because you love Him and pursue Him, but that’s you. Not every believer does this, and some will continue in apathy and rebellion until they have left, Hebrews 5:11-6:20 being just one excellent example of this. That’s why Jesus says, “But he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matt. 24:13), not he who made an initial commitment, not he who was born again, not he who called upon the name of the Lord to be saved thirty years ago. It is truly, as you have written, about the “Fear of the Lord,” and after one continues to grieve the Holy Spirit and to quench Him, that person will no longer fear the Lord because he has returned to self-rule, the consequences of which are very clearly explained in II Peter 2:20-22.

            Many times people use John 15:16 and Romans 8:28-30, as you have done, to prove eternal security. That we have been chosen out of the world by Christ upon accepting Him does not mean that we cannot lose our salvation. It means that we have been conveyed out of this world and into the kingdom in order to be sanctified, in order to become like Christ. Our being born again is only the starting line; believers still have to run and finish the race (I Cor. 9:24:27). The latter passage is also one that is misinterpreted. Because Scripture plainly and repeatedly teaches that salvation can be lost (e.g. John 15:1-6), these verses in Romans cannot be used to support the idea that, because a person started the sequence, he or she will finish it. This is not reconciling Scripture (II Tim. 3:16). The idea that these verses are conveying is God’s plan for those who endure, who stay the course, who finish the race. They are to be understood as an example of Jeremiah 29:11.

            Finally, you have spoken a great deal about the fact that “God is love,” and He very much is. However, “love” is not the definitive word to describe God. That word is “holy.” God is, above all, holy, and if someone thinks that because he or she made a commitment to Christ and then walked some nominal life, with one foot in the world and the other in the church, without truly crucifying the flesh, which comes only by studying, praying, repenting, and fasting, then that person is going to be in for a very rude awakening because the church that Jesus will be bringing into subjection to the Father (I Cor. 15:27-28) will be one that is without spot or wrinkle (Eph. 5:27).

            Donna, I know from your writing that you are very passionate about the Lord and about your position on eternal security; however, as I hope I have shown, the verses and ideas that are put forth in support of this doctrine cannot stand against all Scripture or against reason. I have tried so many times to put across the point that losing one’s salvation is not a matter of sinning or of working one’s way into heaven but of disregarding the admonition of growing in the grace and knowledge of our Savior (II Peter 3:18) through the diligence that results in there being more of Christ and less of us, but so many times, people twist, add, or take away from what I’ve written, and then nothing gets resolved. I have, to the best of my ability, addressed the exact ideas and the exact verses you’ve used, and I would appreciate the same courtesy if you choose to respond, keeping in mind that it is not enough to just provide another verse testifying to God’s love in our situations but to dismantle the arguments that I’ve put forth. Thank you.

            Have a blessed day~
            Barbara

  5. Barbara and Eric,
    Back in the day the Jews were under the impression that when the Messiah came He would set up His Kingdom. Some believed there would be two Messiah’s (the suffering servant / The Messiah who would rule the throne of David and rule on earth and judge on earth) The people were being ruled by the Romans and they looked for a Messiah who would establish a throne on earth. This typology is used over and over again in the OT. Moses deliving the people out of Egypt, thru the wilderness to the Promise Land, etc. There is typology and modeling all through the Old Testament. Joseph is a typology of the suffering servant.

    John was asking whether Christ would set up His Kingdom now or later. John had absolutely no doubt who Jesus was it was a timing issue. Remember even though John was imprison he knew he would probably be killed and he was BEFORE Christ was crucified. To understand this verse correctly you have to remember that they had many misconceptions (just like we do) about what will happen when.

    Barbara it is wrong to state that you know John thought Jesus might not be who he claimed to be and then it is doubly wrong to express that the way you did. Eric’s interpretation is far closer to what was actually going on and shows he is taking the “Whole Counsel of God” and that you are relying on what YOU THINK JOHN WAS THINKING. The religious folk back in the day had many scriptures about the coming Messiah and ONLY those scriptures. Prophecy was being fulfilled but there was more to come and still is. How many of us are looking for His return and looking to see if this prophecy or that prophecy has come to pass? Barbara you’re comments are coming from a New Testament philosophy ONLY perspective. I don’t mean to sound snarky but “correct biblical exegesis” (as you put it) takes the WHOLE BIBLE not just the New Testament and then degrades anyone who sees deeper due to their knowledge of OLD and NEW.

    The OT is in the NT revealed and the NT is in the OT concealed. You can see Jesus on every page of the WHOLE bible.

    • Tess~

      You are right. I have heard about the Jewish idea of the two Messiah’s, one being the suffering servant and one being the conquering king, so I was remiss in excluding that, and I appreciate the correction.

      You wrote, “Barbara it is wrong to state that you know John thought Jesus might not be who he claimed to be….” I think if you go back and read exactly what I wrote, you will see that I wasn’t saying this at all. The doubting I was attributing to John was not that He doubted who Christ claimed to be anymore than we doubt who Christ claimed to be during our trials, which was the reason I gave that analogy. The doubting to which I was referring is what we all experience, doubting whether we’ve heard God correctly or doubting whether God is going to move on our behalf even though we know that He is faithful. In other words, as you know, no believer, and John is no exception, has gone his/her entire walk without experiencing doubts, and that was all I was stating.

      You wrote that “Eric’s interpretation is far closer to what was actually going on and shows he is taking the ‘Whole Counsel of God’ and that you are relying on what YOU THINK JOHN WAS THINKING.” While you are correct that the idea of the two Messiahs was a part of the Jewish mindset, you are incorrect when you say that it is a part of the “Whole Counsel of God” because the whole counsel of God doesn’t speak of two Messiahs at all; that was an error, as you know, on the part of the Jewish people who expected a conquering king and not a suffering servant. The other thing that you criticized me for is that you believe that I am relying on what “[I] THINK JOHN WAS THINKING,” but aren’t you doing the same thing when you say that “Eric’s interpretation is far closer to what was actually going on”?

      I think the bottom line is that none of us knows for sure; however, it did start me to thinking, and I wonder if both ideas could be true to a degree. Here’s John, sitting in prison while his cousin, the Messiah, hasn’t come to rescue him. I don’t know about you, but if that were me, I would begin to have doubts and need some reassurance. I know I need it in my trials when what I know isn’t lining up with how things are unfolding. So, did he begin thinking back to the Jewish mindset that there might be two Messiahs? Well, maybe. That certainly seems to be what he is asking when he said, “Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?” (Lk. 7:19b). What causes me to question just how much he actually believed in the two Messiahs of Judaism is the place he held in God’s plan. Not only do we know that he leapt in his mother’s womb by the power of the Holy Spirit (Lk. 1:41), he bore an amazing and Spirit-filled witness of Christ and His mission in John 1, the language revealing more than just the Jewish belief that this was just one of two Messiah’s, and the suffering One at that. However, one of the strongest evidences to what John’s mindset might have been with regard to what he was really thinking can be found in Isaiah 40:3, which says, “The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God” (HaShem, G-d, “Jewish Virtual Library”). Whereas the NT record of John’s mission (Matt. 3:3) renders the title of Jesus as “Lord,” a slightly ambiguous term, we can see that there is absolutely no ambiguity in the OT. The Messiah whom John was to herald was referred to as “LORD,” Yahweh Himself, and John would have had to have known this, given the scriptural instruction that Jewish people receive in addition to his family members (Zacharias, Elisabeth, Joseph, and Mary) telling him.

      Going back to the original posts, my objection to Eric’s understanding of what the verse is saying is valid. (Here I am just talking about the plain reading of the text, not ideas of what John was thinking about in prison). In reference to Luke 7:19, he wrote, “…the King James Version says, ‘And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?’ The ‘another’ would be another coming, not another Messiah…” Given what Eric has said, here, his paraphrase of this verse would read, “Art thou he that should come, or should we look for another coming?” Does this make sense to you? It can’t be another “coming” because the context (John’s first question) was asking about another “he,” another Messiah, not about another coming.

      I’d appreciate any thoughts.
      Barbara

      • Tess~

        I might not have been clear enough about why I brought up Isaiah 40:3 to explain what John was perhaps thinking in reference to the two Messiahs. My point was that, because John would have known from Scripture that he was actually preparing the way for God Himself, he wouldn’t have limited his understanding of the Messiah to the role of “suffering servant.” He would have known that as God, the Messiah is also “conquering king.” Perhaps sitting in prison, though, he began to question, as we all do, and this caused him to revert to the Jewish mindset and ask if there was another Messiah to come. It would be like my knowing that Christ is my provider, but when I’m not provided for in the way or timing that I think is reasonable, I don’t truly doubt Christ as my provider. I just wonder if it’s going to happen in the way I think it should.

        Barbara

  6. When you put Jesus in the OT stories as a type or a model. IT”S AMAZING and beautiful. Abraham and Isaac were types of the Father and the Son, Adam was a type of Christ because he willingly chose to stay with Eve. It’s not saying Adam was Christ. It’s just a foreshadowing or model or type. Moses was a type of Christ leading His people out of bondage, into the wilderness to the Promise Land. Boaz is a type of Christ, Ruth a type of the church. Noah and the ark are a type. Jonah was a type, etc. Knowing the OT and placing Jesus right in the pages COMPLETELY validates Jesus as the true Messiah. Looking only at New Testament as valid and OT as invalid or old covenant robes you of these beautiful typologies, foreshadowing and models. When you know both OLD and NEW each back up the other.

  7. When I read the verses brought up by Justin in this post, it becomes evident to me not by what Yeshua said, but by what HE didn’t say and what many unbelievers use as a criticism against HIS office as King of the Jews and LORD of LORDS, being that HE never directly called HIMSELF GOD. This claim by unbelievers has ignorance at its core, but this same ignorance is also applicable to believers.

    For the sake of brevity I’ll respond with the following. -Yeshua did not need to. – Almost any Hebrew that heard what Yeshua told Yochanan the immerser would understand that not only in this instance, but throughout scripture, that HE was Messiah without saying it in so many words as we expect HIM to. Yeshua consistently speaks of HIMSELF in reference to and through TaNaK which is as it would and should have been. In many, many, instances that are not always clearly evident to a modern western mind that that is precisely what is being done. The misunderstanding of these verses that are being discussed is evidence of what I’m describing. For a fuller and deeper knowing of HIM, we as HIS followers should make all effort to read scripture, TaNaK, with the understanding that what we read are Hebrew concepts, not Greek, not Latin or English. When I do this, or at least attempt to, my personal relationship is more intimate. HE has a name and HE is of a people. Knowing this is crucial.
    There is obviously much being left out for the sake of time and space.

    J.

  8. Excellent points Jerry.

    Truth doesn’t change but our understanding will deepen if we allow it to.

    My study of the OT and looking at it through a more Eastern perspective allows me a deeper understanding of the OT and the NT. It doesn’t do violence to the text or change it’s meaning, it simply allows me much richer and deeper insight.

    I study 2-3 hrs per day. Not because I HAVE to know what to do. I don’t study to prove my view of scripture. I study because I want to know my Savior and everything about Him.

    Thanks so much for the new word. Yochanan. I have to go study more about that! 🙂

    • Your words say it better than mine, “It doesn’t do violence to the text or change its meaning, and it simply allows me much richer and deeper insight.”

      Yochanan – BLB’s HNV (Hebrew Names Version), you will find this to be a more literally accurate translation, if you are not already aware of it. What a different flavor and perspective I get when reading Yeshua for Jesus or Joshua, Messiah for Christ, Kefa or Shim`on Rock for Simon Peter, Ya`akov for Jacob or James, Yochanan for John, Yosef for Joseph, Miryam for Miriam or Mary, etc. I wonder, when in HIS presence, standing before HIM with the multitude and if I were to call out the name James for instance, just who would turn around and look.

      Back to the discussion at hand and now that football season is over, I would like to ask Justin a question ~ When linguistically comparing one culture to another’s chosen graphic symbols and audible sounds used to relay and consume their thoughts, just how different can they be? For instance, did Jesus actually need to inform John the Baptist verbally that HE was the Christ or was it unaquivically clear to John who Jesus was, and thus interpreting for us that John’s intent was to know if there was another time, not another person?

      J.

  9. The whole testimony is the parable of human being for the glory of God that is called the bible. What a glorious communication from Almighty God for and to His Creation.
    Rev 11:19, Rev 14:6-7

    Israel, a repository and vehicle is both a type and a physical player in this communication, a large part yet not the purpose. Another type foreshadowing the Ark of His testimony, Israel is directed to build the Ark of the Covenant. Exd 25:9

    The new heaven and new earth displaces the first that passed away

    Rev 21

    New Jerusalem is the city whose wall has 12 foundations.
    Rev 21:14

    Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
    Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
    Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

    • How do I love thee? Let me count the ways – Gen 12:1 – Rev 20:15 HNV. No small portion of WOG.

      What was the term you once used to describe your philosophy in one of your comments? Oh yeah, “super human”. Do you mean super beyond the human realm or within human strength?

      J.

  10. The mood of those in the synagogue of Nazareth in the 4th chapter of Luke was critical and envious from the onset. Those Jews resented the audacity of a mere carpenter’s son and became enraged when Jesus announced the fulfillment of the prophecy. The Christian perspective does not develop under the order of the Old Testament, the courses of the sons of Aaron and the exacting precision of the scribes. In reading Isaiah 61:1-7 Jesus omitted the phrase, “He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted.” He borrowed a sentence from Isaiah 58:6, and left out the last half of verse 4. Few modern Christians are executed for their beliefs so John’s inquiry requires consideration of that moment. The behavior of John demanded repentance without regard for his very life. Jesus had only begun to shock the world yet what He proclaimed and was doing created a tension of fame/infamy. Scalded tradition was alerted and fully ripened for the message. Prophecy was being fulfilled yet what would manifest then or later was the sole concern for the one who expended his life to prepare this moment. John was imprisoned without communication with Messiah, Who had selected parts of prophecies and yearned to know what Jesus would do.

  11. Thanks all and God bless you for these wonderful diamonds to reflect upon. Our God is SO amazing in that way. The TRUTH just keeps getting better and better as we dig into His word. It’s simple and direct and at the same time these simple truths are inexhaustible in their richness and depth and they are amazingly always consistent and always lead you in the direction our God wants you to go. The Holy Spirit not only leads us into all truth He leads us in paths of righteousness for His names sake. To me that means the oh wow’s just keep flooding in when we are able to remove our preconceptions. traditions or cultural limitations and just let the Spirit lead us to each new diamond of the brilliant glory of God. He meets us on whatever ground we will openly and earnestly allow and takes us the mountaintop and the view is astounding!

    Barbara, I think you misspoke and that you may have corrected it in your following post to me.

    YOU POSTED—>However, one of the strongest evidences to what John’s mindset might have been with regard to what he was really thinking can be found in Isaiah 40:3, which says, “The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God” (HaShem, G-d, “Jewish Virtual Library”). ???????Whereas the NT record of John’s mission (Matt. 3:3) renders the title of Jesus as “Lord,” a slightly ambiguous term, we can see that there is absolutely no ambiguity in the OT.?????? The Messiah whom John was to herald was referred to as “LORD,” Yahweh Himself, and John would have had to have known this, given the scriptural instruction that Jewish people receive in addition to his family members (Zacharias, Elisabeth, Joseph, and Mary) telling him.

    MY RESPONSE—where I’m in what seems disagreement with you is where the ????marks are????. It was not ambiguous. So John address it as such. There is no difference in Matt. 3:3 for the word “Lord” Strong’s H3068 the word Lord in both Isaiah 40:3 and Matt 3:3 is Yĕhovah – Jehovah = “the existing One”

    1) the proper name of the one true God
    a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

    To me that’s another proof that John’s wording is the same as the OT (Isaiah 40:3)wording.

    You know Moses asking God His name and God saying tell them I AM sent you gives me a chuckle. There is no name that describes the ALL in ALL and God seems to, to me anyway, to be anticipating the my name issues we all would ponder on. A name is a descriptor. How could you ever give Him an all encompassing name? 🙂

    God bless us and lead us in all truth to everlasting glory. Glory to Glory! Oh that all the world might see it.

  12. Jerry,
    Too funny! Good one on the names thing. 🙂 I feel so very blessed by our loving Father that He lead me to cultural insights. It give me so very much joy in the Lord. To look at the Prodigal Son parable from a Jewish perspective give is even more incredible meaning. The fact that in that culture if you dishonored your father and went off with your inheritance would have consigned you to the “you’re dead to me” viewpoint and they didn’t mess around with that. But the father in this parable not only went against the norm, He saw his son coming from a distance and ran out to meet him. He totally went against the expected behavior of that culture and pined for his son’s return. The son eating the swines food is another one where a Jew would gasp in horror. The brothers peevishness about his fathers taking the prodigal back, all of it just deepens the glory of the story. The whole bible really takes on so much more glory when viewed from a more Eastern perspective. I think that might be one of the big reason satan worked so hard to seperate Jewishness from Christianity. What a powerful witness when we are able to see it through their eyes and I think possibly satan knows that if Christians can get a grip on the Jewishness of it all he’s at a huge disadvantage. How can we convert a Jew if we can’t think like one? But of course if there are 2 Jews in a room there will be 3 opinions. LOL 🙂 God bless our stiff necked brothers. I thank God that they were blinded to Messiah because it was by God’s design so that we (the Church) could be heirs also. God didn’t make it happen. He just knew it would and He used it to bring all those who would accept Christ as Savior into the fold. If you can’t convert a Jew based on the OT proof of Jesus you’ll have a very hard time.

  13. Bob,
    If I understand the point your making I tend to agree but I think there’s also some insight in Luke 4:25-27. But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, and there was a great famine throughout all the land; 26 but to none of them was Elijah sent –>except to Zarephath, Naaman the Syrian.”<–

    Zarephath and Naaman were GENTILES. He was stating in effect that the Gentiles would be saved and/or cleansed of sin etc not them. That enraged them and they tried to throw Him off a cliff. When the Pharasees get all angery or excited it a hint of an even deeper significance. He was speaking as one who had authority. To Jews the only people who could do that were the Rabbi's and He was going beyond just scriptural reading or even interpreting, He was giving new revelation into the meaning of the text and only those with "Smeekha" which is the highest Rabidical level and I believe 2 or 3 other Rabbi's have to agree with a Rabbi in order for him to have Smeekha. They questioned Him on that very issue in Matthew 21:23-27. The point being with that exchange is, if heaven gives me smeekha is the smeekha not as worthy as the smeekha of man. I hope I've explained that correctly. It's a Torah studies and Jewish Rabbi thing. In their culture not just anybody was allowed to teach in the temple and especially to expand on scripture beyond was had already been established as sound. They knew and the people knew their Torah backwards and forwards. Every Jewish boy was taught the Torah. By the time you were twelve most could recite every word and if you showed promise you could go on to become a Rabbi and master the rest of the OT and if you still showed brilliance you could become a Rabbi and if you were exhaulted by your peers then smeekha was possible but there were like maybe 3 or 4 Rabbi's who EVER got that far. See Jesus astounded everyone from a very early age. You weren't talking about a culture like ours. We can barely memorize scriptures but religious Jews back then AND now take their Torah seriously. It's one of the reason's why Christians aren't respected by Jews. Sad really. They may be book smart but they are ridged. Or were anyway. Now most hold the Oral Traditions as a higher authority than the Torah itself. I think all of what I've said here is accurate. I'm not Jewish or even Messianic Jewish but that's what I've learned so far about some things. It's fascinating!

  14. Barbara,
    I may not have been clear about my disagreement with your statement. You posted —>Whereas the NT record of John’s mission (Matt. 3:3) renders the title of Jesus as “Lord,” a slightly ambiguous term, we can see that there is absolutely no ambiguity in the OT.

    The NT record does not say Lord it says LORD

    Strong’s H3068 the word Lord in both Isaiah 40:3 and Matt 3:3 is Yĕhovah – Jehovah = “the existing One”

    1) the proper name of the one true God
    a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

    You can spot the exactness by noticing LORD in scripture not just Lord. Whenever your bible says LORD it means it’s Jehovah.

    • Tess~

      I know that the word “LORD” means Jehovah, and I while I do use the NKJV in my reading, which uses that word, I use the KJV when citing verses for my responses on this blog, and that NT record uses the word “Lord,” a fact that some people use to deny that Jesus is God, that He is only Lord but not LORD.

      My point in giving the Isaiah verse in reference to what John the Baptist meant by his comment in prison was to illustrate that he would have known, because of the Isaiah verse, that the Messiah he was heralding was God Himself because, obviously, the book of Matthew hadn’t been written yet, regardless of what version is being used today. His understanding of who this Person was would have come solely from the OT, and the words used to describe this Person were “HaShem” and “G-d.” Because of these facts, I don’t think he would have truly believed that there were two Messiahs because if God Himself was the suffering servant, then I think he would have known that no one greater than God (another Messiah) would be coming as the conquering king. I just think his question could have reflected a momentary lapse into Judaic thinking because what he knew to be true about Jesus being both Messiah and God was not unfolding as thought it should, that his discouragement brought some doubts, just like we have all experienced in times of great trial.

      I hope I have explained it clearly this time.

      Have a blessed day~
      Barbara

      • Hi Barbara,
        Thanks for the response. Isn’t it wonderful that some day we will get to know from John the Baptist himself what the intent of the question was. But I tend to still stand on the opinion that he knew.

        Since Jesus says in Mat 11:11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he….”not one greater” seems to me to be a VERY high opinion of John and I don’t think we can really view him as a peer in regard to ourselves and how we might feel in that situation.

        In the Amplified Version the wording is different,
        Matthew 11:3-6
        And asked Him, Are You the One Who was to come, or should we keep on expecting a different one?
        4 And Jesus replied to them, Go and report to John what you hear and see:
        5 The blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed (by healing) and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up and the poor have good news (the Gospel) preached to them.
        6 And blessed (happy, fortunate, and [a]to be envied) is he who takes no offense at Me and finds no cause for stumbling in or through Me and is not hindered from seeing the Truth.

        Also in the phrase ”
        Greek lexicon:
        erchomai <–"he that should come"
        Pronunciation
        e'r-kho-mī (Key)
        Part of Speech
        verb
        Root Word (Etymology)
        Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] eleuthomai {el-yoo'-thom-ahee}, or [active] eltho {el'-tho}, which do not otherwise occur)
        Dictionary Aids
        Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
        TDNT Reference: 2:666,257
        Outline of Biblical Usage
        to come
        of persons
        to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
        to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public
        metaph.
        to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
        be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto
        to go, to follow one

        Since the Greek word was erchomai and because due to the dictionary aids I'm still of the opinion that John had no doubt about it and that he very possibly could have been asking if there would be two visitations or two missions of Christ. The same personage of Christ but two events.

        Also Jesus' statement could be an affirmation of Johns and a statement about John and his faith. In other words …you John are highly blessed because you saw the truth and never stumbled type of response.

        Now, again, it's how you interpret scripture so we are left to conjecture but I also believe that the Holy Spirit and God's Word is designed in such a way that it intends and even designs both possible meanings to minister to us where we are in "our" lives. Neither interpretation does violence to the text. In other words it does not change the Gospel, it just anticipates either glory in overcoming doubt and/or points to the two events through one Person senario. I think it's possible to view it both ways and be correct in both of them. It's part of the glory of the Word.

        Whatever the answer it's glorious and it would be great if BLB could let us know how they interpret this. It's fascinating! It's also fascinating if viewed in a foreshadowing sense. The rapture, then the 2nd Coming of Christ sense. Although that is way deep it would I think be the Eastern mindset way of viewing scriptures in patterns and types and models. But that's a WHOLE NOTHER BARREL OF FISH. 🙂

  16. Barbara,

    In love and respect of your references and your teaching I am going to pray on them and leave it at that. I will take into my spirit what the LORD gives me revelation to take in. He will help me to review and learn what I may be lacking in or on and need to learn. I will do my best to respond with Love as led.

    I guess for me I am “CONVINCED” and “NOT MOVEABLE” on my belief that “As for ME” “I will not be separated from the “Love of God and My Christ”, NEVER….Because I WILL NOT LET GO OF HIM NO MATTER WHAT! “NOTHING WILL TEAR ME FROM HIM”. I spent a lifetime looking and He found me.

    I guess I am a living testimony of the scripture in Luke that says “Her sins were many and her faith has saved her”.

    I will submit to do whatever the Holy Spirit leads me to do no matter what, and I also make sure it aligns with the Word Of God to the best of my God given ability.

    I find personally if I get to deep into my own individual opinions of the Bible, which for me is not where I am led to be, that is of the many verses and references you made reference to, I will trip up and get my eyes off the Father and get in trouble.

    So I will reference only one point you made, if you can in all due respect please.

    You replied to My Love For GOD and GOD Being Love and His Holiness and I Truly agree.

    He Clearly States “He is Holy and We Are to Be Holy” as well.

    I have just found in my case, that is a case of someone who was so broken, beaten, shamed, guilted, and dirty, when he did call me to him I was afraid to approach him. That is I would never have even approached the throne to pray much less even believed He Wouldn’t just strike me down due to my total unholiness and filth.

    So first and foremost He had to teach me His Love. I had to just choose to believe it, I had nothing else. I had never even been to church as an adult, I prayed to the great mighty Jehovah not to wipe me out each morning I woke up out of absolute fear and horrific shame.

    I came from a world where LOVE doesn’t and didn’t exist, it was just a fleeting “Hope” a silly movie, a pipe dream.

    So no one or anything but His Love,Grace,and Mercy could have drawn me to him. I had to learn that He Loved me no matter what and what love really was before I could have even began to face the many deliverences, many situations, and many sins, that I not only needed to address, but needed to deal with so that I could start the process of the walk of working out my own personal salvation. Kinda like a horder they just give up because the task apears to big to even try…..

    See the dark and light could not live together and when they collided it was absolutely craziness within me. Trust me when I say I was clueless on how to handle the things that were happening to me at the time and so where those around me. It was wild to say the least.

    However because of His Love and Patience, He is now and has been for years bringing me into His holiness with the CONSTANT Washing of the Word and the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

    In The World I lived, the BIBLE, the WORD of God was just too hard to understand much less believe since those whom I had contact with didn’t practice what they preached. They were hypocrites.

    His LOVE is what brought me to repentance and many whom my personal ministry now works with. Father sends the Throw aways to us, those too dirty for others to touch. The Lepers…
    The Holy Spirit picks them up from there and teaches us all in His Love.

    He has shown me many of the deeper mysteries of His word and for those teachings I am ever Gracious and Humble.

    I just wanted Chase to know, that if he could just “Dare to Believe that GODS Love is just that Big, that is Bigger than His Sin, then The Holy Spirit will take care of the rest and if He will just Choose to Believe that His Grace & Mercy will be sufficient, that He will be Okay if He Loves Father and the Son.

    I have to say GOD has blessed you with the ability to quote, reference, discuss, and relay the Word in ways that actually overwhelm me, in fact to be honest my attention span has difficulty even taking it all in.

    That is why I said we ALL have different callings, we are all different body parts of the same Christ or Messiah.

    All Glory & Praise Be To Him. Him who set me Free !!!

    Some of us are here just because He loved us first, not because of who we are or will be. “GOD IS LOVE” and So Now am I 🙂

    For that I will gladely give me life every day I have left.

    With all Respect and Love May you Be Blessed

    Donna

    • Donna~

      Thanks for the comments. I think I now understand why you have focused on the word “love” in your walk, and well you should. Even though our life’s experiences were different, I also know that it is hard to accept and live in His love, and I am thankful that He does show us so that we will be healed and able to walk it out in our lives and in the lives of others.

      The reason that I made such a big deal about the word “holy” over the word “love” is because there are some believers who think that because God is love that He won’t take their salvation away, so I wanted to stress that He is, above all, holy, coming for a church without spot or wrinkle and that our final salvation is dependent upon our enduring to the end as Jesus says in Matthew 24:13 and as He further explains in His letters to the seven churches in Asia (Rev. 2:1-3:22). Contrary to what so many people think that I am saying, that the loss of salvation has to do with our sinning or not being diligent enough in working our way to heaven, Christ clearly stresses that those believers who “repent” and “overcome” (flesh, world, evil one) are those who will receive the promises given at the close of each letter, which are elements of salvation, not rewards. When you feel led to study these letters, I know the Holy Spirit will guide you into their truths (Jn. 16:13).

      As to your comments on your “individual opinions of the Bible,” let me say that God does, as you imply, lead us as individuals, line upon line and precept upon precept (Is. 28:10), so there will be a time in which He will lead you into the verses and explanations that I (and others) have written about because the doctrines, issues, and verses are a part of God’s Word.

      I will continue to hold you up in prayer that you will experience even greater love and security in our Lord and Savior than you do now. We can take hope in Ephesians 1:3, which says, “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ.”

      Have a blessed day~
      Barbara

      • Thank you, too, for your encouraging words to Chase. He needs all of them that we can give!

  17. Bob,

    Father is SOOOO Good, I understand the first response you sent as just that.

    Glad I give Him my Heart & Mind each day so that I see with them and His Heart not my eyes !!!

    If we can just believe His goodness and Love does conquer ALL, that is All the darkness within each of us then it will have to disipate and leave and simply become LIGHT, HIS Light…..

    May the The “GREAT I AM”, My Daddy “YHWH” of ALL LOVE, ALL GRACE, ALL HOLINESS,AND HONOR Bless you Today.

    • Donna,
      You have hold of the mystery. The LOVE of Christ. He knew before you were born every step you’d travel and every circumstance you’d encounter and He loves you for the special person He created you to be.

      Ephesians 3

      🙂

      • Tess,
        :)I Thank him for your encouraging words…..Actually His Words for me…..

        I will take them into my heart and continue the Journey. Always Pressing Forward…

        The particular Walk, he has assigned to me to walk. Though often weary and in tears, I am reminded by you,Tess, This Bright Light, This Beacon Of Christ along my travels, that He is Alive and Lives Through my Sisters and Brothers, Those He Forenew, and Predestined to be called His Own.

        May The Great and Mighty “I AM” Bless You and All you put your Hand too!!! Amen

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