What Is the Doctrine of the Trinity?

One of the most important doctrines of the Christian faith is that of the Trinity. From Scripture we learn that God, by nature is a Triune Being or Trinity. The subject of the Trinity is holy ground because it discusses the nature of the one, true, God. Consequently, we should approach the subject with all humility and reverence.

All Doctrine Must Be Derived From The Bible

At the outset, we must state that any belief about the Trinity must come from the Bible and the Bible alone. It is the only authoritative source to discover answers about God and His nature. The Bible, by itself, must answer the question as to whether or not there is such a thing as a Trinity. Tradition or the pronouncements of some church authority does not make the doctrine true.

The Trinity Is Only Known By Revelation

In addition, the doctrine of the Trinity could only be known by divine revelation- it cannot be known by human reason. The only way in which the inner working of God could be known is that God revealed it to humanity. The Bible says the mind of the Lord is unknown to humanity.

For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16).

Ultimately, the doctrine of the Trinity is a doctrine that God has revealed to humankind through the Scriptures. It is not the result of human reasoning.

The Definition Of The Trinity

The doctrine of the Trinity, simply stated, is as follows: The Bible teaches that there is one eternal God who is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. He is the only God that exists. However, within the nature of this one God are three persons, or three centers of consciousness – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three Persons are co-equal and co-eternal. They are also distinguishable or distinct from one another. These three distinct Persons are the one God. Everything that is true about God is true about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Reverse Is Not True

While the Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God it is wrong to say that God is the Father, God is the Son, or God is the Spirit. God’s nature consists of three distinct Persons. Therefore it is incorrect to limit God to one particular member of the Trinity.

Scripture makes the following points about the nature of God.

1. There Is Only One God That Exists

Foundational to the doctrine of the Trinity is the biblical teaching of the existence of only one God. No other divine being has real existence. Trinitarians, or those who believe in the Trinity, are emphatic that only one God exists. Furthermore the essence of God cannot be divided. God, by nature, is spirit – He has no physical form. It is not possible to divide up spirit. The God of the Bible is one single eternal, infinite being who is indivisible – impossible to divide.

2. There Are Three Distinct Persons Who Exist (The Father, Son, And The Holy Spirit)

Scripture is also clear there are three distinct persons who exist – God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. For example, Jesus prayed to God the Father, He did not pray to Himself. At His baptism the voice of the Father spoke in an approving way of Jesus – it was not Jesus who spoke of Himself. Therefore the three Persons should not be confused with one another.

3. Each Of These Three Persons Is Called God

The Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Each are called God, each possess attributes that only God can possess, each perform works that only God can perform.

4. The Three Persons Are The One God (The Trinity)

The conclusion to the above facts is as follows: if only one God exists, and if there are three distinct persons who are all called God, then the three persons must be the one God. This is the doctrine of the Trinity.

Some Important Clarifications Of The Doctrine Of The Trinity

There are some much-needed clarifications that should be made about the Trinity. They include the following.

They Are Distinct In Their Roles

The members of the Trinity have distinct roles. Although they are all equally God they have different functions within the Godhead. The Father is the one who sends while the Son is the One who is sent. The Holy Spirit is also sent to testify of Jesus. Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equal with God the Father in nature. However they are subordinate in their relationships. Subordinate in a relationship does not mean lesser in character.

Each Member is Equal In Importance

All three Persons of the Trinity are of equal importance. Christians often overlook the importance of Father and the Holy Spirit because Jesus, the Son, is where the faith centers. He is the one who became a human being, suffered for the sins of humanity, and rose from the dead. He is the one who will return to the earth and set up His kingdom. Eternal life is based upon how we view Him. Consequently Jesus Christ is central to the heart of the believer. However we must realize that each member of the Trinity is of equal importance. They are equal in dignity, majesty, glory, and power but different in the roles in which they have.

There Are No Analogies In Nature

Finally, the idea of three centers of consciousness or three distinct personalities has no analogy for us as humans. All attempts to equate the Trinity with some analogy will miserably fail. This includes trying to compare the Trinity to a human being who has intellect, feeling, and will. This is not the same as the Triune God who has three distinct centers of consciousness. Therefore it is best to admit that the Trinity has no analogy with which we can compare it.

Summary

The truth of the Trinity must be decided solely on what the Bible has to say about the subject. The doctrine of the Trinity can only be known by divine revelation – human reason cannot discover anything about the personal nature of God. When we look at what the Scripture has to say we discover that one God exists in three Persons – the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is found by noting the following points: only one God exists; there are three distinct Persons in the New Testament – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; each of these three distinct Persons is called God. Therefore the three distinct Persons must be the one God.

The members of the Trinity have different roles though they are equal in character. Each member of the Trinity is equally important although Christians tend to emphasize Jesus, the Second Person of Trinity. There is no real analogy to the Trinity to which humans can compare the Trinity.

  • Jacob

    You say that the doctrine of the trinity is biblical. Yet you do not support your article with any scripture. Show me one scripture that mentions the word “trinity”. You also say that there is one God, made up of three persons and therefore is one God. Simple grade school math tells me that 1+1+1=3 not 1+1+1=1, which is what your saying the trinity is.

    • STAF

      I agree with you completely Jacob! None of the words used to describe or hint at the Trinity is found in scripture.
      - Triune
      - Trinity
      - God the Son
      - God the Holy Spirit
      - Three in One (“three are one” is totally different)

      The Roman Catholic Church created the doctrine of the Trinity based on Egyptian, Roman and Greek Philosophy. This is also confirmed in historical writings.

      • Barbara LeFevre

        You are absolutely wrong about the Roman Catholic Church creating the doctrine of the Trinity because it is biblical. As Christians, we need to quit playing games, here, and get ourselves into the Word of God because heresy is creeping into the body as prophesied.

    • Barbara LeFevre

      Jacob~

      Just because the word “Trinity” is not in the Bible doesn’t mean that the Trinity does not exist. In addition, your math is also wrong. There is only one God (Deut. 6:4), but Scripture reveals that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is each God. The equation that we are looking at, then, is not that 1+1+1=3 but 1x1x1=1. Go to BLB homepage and click on commentaries. Click on the link for Robert M. Bowman, Jr. and scroll down to the bottom. He has written an article entitled “The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity.”

      You and others have given very weak arguments in an attempt to prove that the Trinity does not exist, and yet, it is one of the most provable doctrines in the Bible. II Timothy 2:15 says, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

      • http://blogs.blueletterbible.org/blb/2012/06/26/what-is-the-doctrine-of-the-trinity/#comments Benjamin

        First,if you are going to say God is a Trinity, it would helpt to see that statement in the Bible. The name was invented by Tertullian over 200 years after Jesus’ earthly ministry and that of the Apostles, NONE of which ever referred to God as “three distinct persons”, or “Trinity”. Jesus is NEVER called “God the Son”, nor is the HS ever called “God the Holy Spirit”. Neither is EVER called “members of a Trinity”. The Bible DOESN”T say Jesus is IN a Godhead (the correct translation of THEIOTOS is “divine nature, or divinity”. Godhead is a made up word by the KJV translators. The Divine Nature is said to be IN Jesus. The problem with your 1x1x1 argument is that, in multiplication, 1 times any number is that same number, not a different (distinct) number. The Doctrine of the Trinity uses the tersm “is also God” to refer to the three. “Also” means, in ADDITION to. Its addition, not multiplication. 1+1+1=3 Gods, the same as Trithiesm. You can’t something is BIBLICAL and it not be found ANYWHERE in the Bible. All Don did was quote the definition of the D.O.T. and then rationalized his belief in it by saying, “humans can’t reason it”. It’s a great mystery that has to be revealed to you. The truth of it is that it was devised by the RCC in the same way most of their false doctrines were formulated; through pagan influence. It is nowhere to be found in Scripture.

        • Barbara LeFevre

          Benjamin~

          One God the Father x One God the Son x One God the Holy Spirit=One God (Deut. 6:4).

          Read my post to Stephen. There are a few things to consider about whether or not there is a Triune God.

          Have a blessed day~
          Barbara

    • eager bereans

      Those who reject the doctrine of the Trinity accuse the Trinitarians of being polytheistic, believing in many gods. The unitarians accuse evangelicals of being paganistic in the concept of “many” gods. Some also trace the concept of the Trinity as originating from a pagan emperor who imposed his will on the Council of Nicea. Those of us who have studied briefly the history of the Council of Nicea know better. The doctrine of the Trinity is purely a revealed doctrine. That is to say, it embodies a truth which has never been discovered, and is indiscoverable, by natural reasons. As the doctrine of the Trinity is indiscoverable by reason, so it is incapable of proof from reasons. Therefore we have to base our belief in the doctrine of the Trinity exclusively from divine revelation. Rational logic would fail if we employ it in our defence of such.
      The word “God” in Genesis 1:1 is a title and comes from the Hebrew {yÕiholE) elohim (Hebrew words that ends in “im” is plural). This word is not singular but plural in form. And this God also said in Genesis 1:27, “Let us make man…” . God did not ask the consent of angels, for we have no record that man was created in the image of angels. The use of the plural title Elohim means that this was the express desire of the three Persons of the Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” This means God is not just one person but more than one person. This is the seed theological thought of the doctrine of the Trinity, One God in Three Persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
      In the New Testament, there is a very important passage on the doctrine of the Trinity in the book of Mathew chapter 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” In the Greek text, there is an article “the” before Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In Greek grammar, there is a very important rule to adhere to, which states that “the presence of the article identifies.” This means that there are three distinct persons mentioned by the Lord. .Second, the word “name” is singular. Name in the Scriptures often refers to character. In this passage, name refers to the attributes of the Three Persons. This means that the Three Persons of the Godhead are one in quality of being or attributes, as mentioned in John 10:30. “I and the Father are one.
      In 2 Cor 13:14, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen”. The apostle Paul pronounces the blessings on the Corinthian church using the three Persons of the Godhead which is the new Name of the God of Christianity. This is the very famous apostolic benediction. In this passage we observe the spontaneous apostolic expression of the doctrine of the Trinity. The three Persons are mentioned on the same degree of importance in the impartation of the blessings of grace, love and fellowship. There is no discrimination here and there is no suggestion of personal subordination. The three are assumed equal. And this is unusual for a strict monotheist like the apostle Paul.
      Therefore we have to base our belief in the doctrine of the Trinity exclusively from divine revelation. Rational logic would fail if we employ it in our defence of such a doctrine. We have to go to the Word of God, the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments. For only in its pages will we have a revelational basis for our faith. The doctrine of the Trinity was implicit in the Old but explicit in the New Testament

    • tony arco

      Those who reject the doctrine of the Trinity accuse the Trinitarians of being polytheistic, believing in many gods. The unitarians accuse evangelicals of being paganistic in the concept of “many” gods. Some also trace the concept of the Trinity as originating from a pagan emperor who imposed his will on the Council of Nicea. Those of us who have studied briefly the history of the Council of Nicea know better.
      The doctrine of the Trinity is purely a revealed doctrine. That is to say, it embodies a truth which has never been discovered, and is indiscoverable, by natural reasons. As the doctrine of the Trinity is indiscoverable by reason, so it is incapable of proof from reasons. Therefore we have to base our belief in the doctrine of the Trinity exclusively from divine revelation. Rational logic would fail if we employ it in our defence of such.
      The word “God” in Genesis 1:1 is a title and comes from the Hebrew {yÕiholE) elohim (Hebrew words that ends in “im” is plural). This word is not singular but plural in form. And this God also said in Genesis 1:27, “Let us make man…” . God did not ask the consent of angels, for we have no record that man was created in the image of angels. The use of the plural title Elohim means that this was the express desire of the three Persons of the Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” This means God is not just one person but more than one person. This is the seed theological thought of the doctrine of the Trinity, One God in Three Persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
      In the New Testament, there is a very important passage on the doctrine of the Trinity in the book of Mathew chapter 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” In the Greek text, there is an article “the” before Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In Greek grammar, there is a very important rule to adhere to, which states that “the presence of the article identifies.” This means that there are three distinct persons mentioned by the Lord. .Second, the word “name” is singular. Name in the Scriptures often refers to character. In this passage, name refers to the attributes of the Three Persons. This means that the Three Persons of the Godhead are one in quality of being or attributes, as mentioned in John 10:30. “I and the Father are one.
      In 2 Cor 13:14, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen”. The apostle Paul pronounces the blessings on the Corinthian church using the three Persons of the Godhead which is the new Name of the God of Christianity. This is the very famous apostolic benediction. In this passage we observe the spontaneous apostolic expression of the doctrine of the Trinity. The three Persons are mentioned on the same degree of importance in the impartation of the blessings of grace, love and fellowship. There is no discrimination here and there is no suggestion of personal subordination. The three are assumed equal. And this is unusual for a strict monotheist like the apostle Paul.
      Therefore we have to base our belief in the doctrine of the Trinity exclusively from divine revelation. Rational logic would fail if we employ it in our defence of such a doctrine. We have to go to the Word of God, the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments. For only in its pages will we have a revelational basis for our faith. The doctrine of the Trinity was implicit in the Old but explicit in the New Testament

      • Barbara LeFevre

        Tony~

        This is an old blog, so I don’t even know whether you will be back to read this, but I just want to share something with you. At least one excerpt of your response was taken from the “The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia Online;” however, you failed to cite this as a source, taking credit for it yourself. Using someone else’s work without giving them the proper credit is plagiarism, and it is legally and morally wrong.

        Barbara

        • tony arco

          To Barbar L, Mea culpa. It is not my intention to grab the credit from someone else’s works. In posting my reaction,i admit i failed to cite the books or the author where i obtained my opinion which i believed are Biblical,sound and balanced Theology. To rectify you, some of the ideas that were included in my response were taken from Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield writings which i mentally acquired and memorised when i studied Biblical languages at El Theological Seminary at Forest Hills, Banawa Cebu City, Philippines. It is not from The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia Online which you have erroneously pointed out. I acknowledge that it is immoral and illegal for mewhen i will be writing my thesis or dissertation if i will incorporate their theological wisdom without citing them in my footnotes. I lament in my failure to mentioned the source of some of my Biblical comment because of my eagernessin to enhance my argument regarding the Biblical revelation of the Trinity which are are being doubted and falsely perceived by people who are portraying as the modern Nicodemus. In 1 Cor 2:14-15, the Bible says,”But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
          We need not drift away from the main issue which is the Biblical Truth. I am hesitant to ask, Whose side are you with, Ms Barbara L., John 8:32 or you’re with John 8:44?
          I am grateful for your admonition. I will take it positively. It will be of great benifit to me when i will be doing my thesis, Godwilling.

    • Vanessa

      Well said. Jesus is never “co-equal” with his Father. Even at the end of his reign he hands the kingdom to God 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

      Everone who believes the Trinity doctrine should read this book:
      The Doctrine of the Trinity – Christianity’s Self-inflicted Wound by Buzzard and Hunting

      • Vanessa

        My last post was agreeing with Jacob’s comments – not with Tony. computer put it in the wrong place.

      • http://www.capitaldynamicsre.com Kenneth Jelladian

        Thank you Vanessa for the 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 verses. These verses didn’t pop out to me before I referenced them from you having pointed them out. These verses powerfully reaffirm my non-trinitarian experience of our Father and His Son (our Messiah), making it clear that if one subjects oneself to another, Yahushua/Jesus subjecting Himself to His Father, vs. 28, then He is not God The Father. One wouldn’t subject oneself to one’s self. Verse 24 reveals Yahushua “deliver[ing] up the Kingdom to God, even the Father;…” There would be no delivering up if Yahweh/Father and Yahushua were “equally God.”

        Thanks.

        Kenneth

        PS For those who might chance to read this and might be confused with my saying that Yahushua is not God The Father, which would seem to contradict Isaiah 9:6, I recognize Yahushua as serving in the similitude of our Father: John 10:29. He is also Diety as Elohim (Mighty Ones) serving in unity with The Father, “I and Ha AV [The Father] are echad [in unity].” {John 10:30 OJB/Orthodox Jewish Bible.}

  • STAF

    A quick comment on the article:

    • God is a Spirit – John 4:24
    • There is only one Spirit – Eph. 4:4
    • The Spirit of God is holy – Isa. 63:10

    A couple of questions:
    Are there one or two Holy Spirits? Most would answer: One!
    Would you consider the Father to be holy?
    Would you consider the Father to be a Spirit?
    Is God the Father a Holy Spirit? Yes!

    The Father and the Holy Spirit are one in the same. The function or role is different but you can’t cut a Spirit into 3 equal parts. God is indivisible.

    Another question: If the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary to conceive Jesus, wouldn’t the Holy Spirit be the Father of Jesus? If the Holy Spirit is one in the same Spirit as the Father this would make perfect sense.

    When we received God in our hearts, who came to live inside of us?
    - The Spirit of Truth
    - The Comforter
    - The Holy Spirit
    - Jesus Christ – “Christ in you, the hope of glory”? Col. 1:27
    - The Father – “One God and Father of all…in you all”? Eph. 4:6
    The answer is yes! The One Spirit of God lives in us. The name God has revealed himself by is Jesus Christ.

    Jesus Christ is “God manifest in the flesh”. Jesus Christ is the One God of the Old Testament, the I AM that spoke with Moses, He was before Abraham.

    The One Spirit of God came to live within the man Christ Jesus. “There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me” – Isa. 45:21. “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.” – Luke 2:11

    • Jacob

      Well said STAF!!! Exactly where I was going to go based on the response of the author of the blog post. “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE Lord” — Deut 6:4

    • Jacob

      Don’t take this the wrong way, but the Roman Catholic Church’s doctrine goes back further than Egypt,Rome, and Greece. It goes all the way back to Babylon. Catholicism is Babylonian doctrine with a Christian face.

      • STAF

        Yep! “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” is the queen of all world religions. There is a reason why the Lord said, “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues” (Rev. 18:4).

  • Lissa

    Thank you for explaining it :)

  • Zachary

    “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” -Isaiah 9:6 NASB

    “I and the Father are one.”- John 10-30

    • Jacob

      Very true Zach. It’s very interesting that Isaiah 6:9, seeing it is Commonly attributed to Jesus mentions the fact that “His” name, not their names will be called “Everlasting Father”

  • Rex Cleveland

    Don Stewart’s analysis was completely accurate. The doctrine of the Trinity is biblical, it is derived form that which is revealed in the Bible.
    The very first sentence in the Bible gives an indication to this doctrine. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”. The english word “God” in the original hebrew language is Elohim, a plural form of the word for God (which is El in the singular) denoting three or more persons. In addition, in hebrew, a plural subject is always followed by a plural verb. However, in Genesis 1:1 the word “created” is singular. SO, we see a plural entity performing a singular act.
    As to who is God, believe these Scriptures. In his introduction to Titus, Paul states he is “a bond-servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ,”, obviously two distinct persons. In verse three we see the words “God our Savior”. Verse four ends with “Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior”. Since both individuals are listed as “our Savior”, and only God can save us, both must be God. 2 Corinthians, chapter three, lists the words “the Spirit” (as opposed to “the spirit”) seven times. He is “the Spirit of the living God” v.3. Our adequacy as servants of the new covenant is “of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Sprit gives life”. v.6. Who else can give life besides God? Verse eight mentions the “ministry of the Spirit”. Can a non-entity have a ministry? The chapter ends with these verses: “Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as form the Lord, the Spirit.”. The Spirit must also be God in order to perform these actions. Lastly, my favorite benediction is found in 2 Cor. 13:14. This verse clearly shows the personal, Godly attention given to all those who believe in Him, exhibited by the Trinity: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”.
    In conclusion, someone or something does not have to be named specifically in order to exist. The water we drink is hardly ever called H2O when we drink it. And so it is with the Trinity. We do not see the word itself printed, but we know by the Bible’s revelation and the personal, life-giving, soul saving intervention of God that we have, and are experiencing, this supernatural existence which can only be made possible by the three persons of the Godhead. Because Scripture says so.

  • Stephen Rafferty

    You say that the trinity “is one of the most important doctrines of the Christian faith”. Some say that it is thee “central doctrine”. That being the case I find it strange that: 1)Why in a book as thick as the bible, a book that reveals God to us, where God is mentioned thousands of times, do we not find one single unambigous statement that tells us that He is a 3 person God? 2)Why did neither Jesus nor the 1st century writers of the NT not enlighten us, in any text, to the triune God? 3)Why did it take decades of councils to come with a description of the trinity as you have described it? 4)In order to support the trinity doctrine it must be read into any given text,and most verses used in its support are either spurious or disputed

    • Nick

      Another note: to say that “God the Son” (a extra-biblical term) exists in eternity is to say that the Son was, is, and forever will be in existence. But looking to the bible, any time Christ is mentioned before his literal ministry on earth, the bible refers to Christ as The Word (John 1:1, John 1:14, I John 5:7). John, who wrote to the Gentiles (for that was the audience he was addressing), made a point to explain in detail the nature (especially in John 1) of God. The Son doesn’t refer to another consciousness that dwells in a three person unity that makes up the entirety of God; that doesn’t make any sense! Great is the mystery of Godliness, but the mystery of the nature of God is revealed in His Word! It is for all to understand!

      John goes on to point out in John 10:30 that “I and my Father are one.” Looking at this verse without understanding the situation at hand, some would say, “He was meaning one in agreement, in coherence, not one in the same.” But Jesus is talking directly to the Jews, who had, for some time, been seeking to find communion with God. If Jesus had used the context of “I and my Father agree in one,” in the next verse, John 10:31, the Jews certainly would not have taken up stones to kill Jesus. For declaring that Jesus was Christ to the Jews was blasphemy in their eyes, because they did not want to believe.

      Another point: If the Son is a coequal person of the God, he would truly know all. The Son would know everything from the beginning to the end. But Jesus himself says (in Mark 13:32) that the Son (himself) didn’t even know He (the Son) was to return! Only the Father knew!

      NOTE: Scripture is full of explanation to the true nature of God, from the beginning to the end of His Word. You can twist scripture to your own interpretation like in Matthew 4, but the true nature of God doesn’t need analogies, extra-biblical doctrines, or parallels! The truth is in the Word!

    • Barbara LeFevre

      Stephen~

      That there never was one sentence where Jesus specifically said, “I am God” used to bother me, too, but as I began to truly study God’s Word, it became less of an issue and then a non issue. The reason is because it really doesn’t matter. The doctrine is taught, and it is taught throughout the Bible, despite the concerns you put forth in your four points, two of which are flawed. The councils to which you are referring in point three are those initiated by the Roman Catholic Church. That a pseudo-Christian group convened to decide what doctrines it was or wasn’t going to uphold should not be the deciding factor in whether God’s Word truly teaches anything, including the doctrine of the Trinity. I don’t know where you got the information you put forth in point four, but it just isn’t true. In the first place, for the sake of argument, even if it were true that “most verses used in its support are either spurious or disputed,” what about the other verses that aren’t? If nine out of ten examples of something can be proven to be out and out fraudulent, does this mean, then, that the remaining one is not to be taken seriously?

      Just because God gave us His Word, it doesn’t negate our responsibility to use our abilities to reason while we read and study. As I included in another post, we all know that there is only one God (Deut. 6:4), and this verse isn’t ambiguous at all. Now, let’s go to John 5:18 which says, “Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” While it is true that this verse does not emphatically state that Jesus is God, it most certainly is implied. In addition, Jesus never denied what they were saying, which He most certainly would have had they been wrong. Now, because we know the Father is God, and we know that Jesus is God, which would be the better conclusion, based upon these two verses alone, that there are really two Gods, in direct opposition to Deuteronomy 6:4, or that there is the possibility of a Trinity, one God, expressed in three ways?

      In addition, when we go to Hebrews 3:7-11, we find that it was the “Holy Ghost” (v. 1) whom the people “tempted” and “proved” (v. 9), with the result that they were not allowed to enter His (the Holy Ghost’s) rest (v. 11). When we read about the Israelites deliverance out of Egypt and their subsequent wanderings in the wilderness, Who does Scripture reveal to be the object of their rebellion? We all know that it was God, and yet, we read in the Hebrews passage and Psalm 95 that it was the Holy Ghost. Taking just these few verses and passages into consideration, don’t you think it can be reasonably concluded that there really is a Triune God?

      Just to clarify, the Trinity is not modalism which teaches that God shifts into different modes in which He is sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son, and sometimes the Holy Spirit. Although not a perfect analogy, I think of the idea of a Triune God as something like a committee, a word that is a singular entity but is comprised of many other entities. There is a singular God “committee” or “head,” comprised of three entities that are each God~God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, each self-existing together as one indivisible essence.

      As to your first and second points, I understand your concern, but we have been given two very powerful verses that should guide us as we seek God’s truth, one a command and the other a promise. The command is II Timothy 2:15 which says, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” The promise is John 16:13 which says, “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.”

      I will be praying that, as you study, your eyes will be opened up to the truth of God’s Word.

      I hope you have a blessed day~
      Barbara

  • http://blogs.blueletterbible.org/blb/2012/06/26/what-is-the-doctrine-of-the-trinity/#comments Benjamin

    First,if you are going to say God is a Trinity, it would helpt to see that statement in the Bible. The name was invented by Tertullian over 200 years after Jesus’ earthly ministry and that of the Apostles, NONE of which ever referred to God as “three distinct persons”, or “Trinity”. Jesus is NEVER called “God the Son”, nor is the HS ever called “God the Holy Spirit”. Neither is EVER called “members of a Trinity”. The Bible DOESN”T say Jesus is IN a Godhead (the correct translation of THEIOTOS is “divine nature, or divinity”. Godhead is a made up word by the KJV translators. The Divine Nature is said to be IN Jesus. The problem with your 1x1x1 argument is that, in multiplication, 1 times any number is that same number, not a different (distinct) number. The Doctrine of the Trinity uses the tersm “is also God” to refer to the three. “Also” means, in ADDITION to. Its addition, not multiplication. 1+1+1=3 Gods, the same as Trithiesm. You can’t say something is BIBLICAL and it not be found ANYWHERE in the Bible. All Don did was quote the definition of the D.O.T. and then rationalized his belief in it by saying, “humans can’t reason it”. It’s a great mystery that has to be revealed to you. The truth of it is that it was devised by the RCC in the same way most of their false doctrines were formulated; through pagan influence. It is nowhere to be found in Scripture.

  • http://blogs.blueletterbible Beth Morgan

    I WOULD LIKE TO SHED SOME MORE LIGHT W/MY FELLOW BROS AND SIS’ IN CHRIST,FIRST I’D LIKE TO BACK UP THE “TRINTY”WITH THE WORD.IN 1JOHN5:7,IT SAYS “FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN,THE FATHER,THE WORD,AND THE HOLY GHOST AND THESE THREE ARE ONE.TO BE ONE IS NOT ONE BODY OR BEING BUT TO BE ONE IN UNITY. THE FATHER SON AND HOLY GHOST ARE ONE[IN UNISON]BUT YET, THREE SEPARATE ENITIES.IF I MAY,TWO MORE EXAMPLES:ROMANS 12:5 SAYS,”SO WE ,[BEING]MANY,ARE ONE BODY IN CHRIST, AND EVERY ONE MEMBERS ONE OF ANOTHER.SOOOOOO…DOES THIS MEAN THAT THERES
    JUST ONE BODY??NO,WE’RE ALL THE BODY WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, BUT…, IN UNITY,ALL WITH THE SAME PURPOSE THAT JESUS IS EVERYTHING, HE IS THE HEAD AND IN CHARGE OF THE BODY!! PLESE NOTE THESE VERSES AS WELL.[1COR10:17,1COR12:12AND13,EPH2:16]LAST…GEN2:24 SHALL A MAN LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER,AND SHALL CLEAVE UNTO HIS WIFE; AND THEY [TWO] SHALL BE ONE FLESH. DID I JUST DISAPPEAR WHEN I MARRIED MY HUSBAND??!! I THINK NOT!WHEN WE BECAME ONE, IT WAS IN AGREEMENT,STRENGTH,AND UNISON, WE’RE STILL TWO SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS.SO… TO THOSE OF YOU WHO DOUBT THE TRINITY… PLEASE WITH MUCH PRAYER,OPENESS,AND TRUST IN GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON AND GOD THE HOLY GHOST,ALLOW HIM TO REVEAL HIMSELF AND ALL HIS ENITIES TO YOU.THANKS 4 ALLOWING ME 2 SHARE AND I’M BELIEVING THAT THIS CLEARED UP SOME THINGS 4 YOU ALL. HIS IN CHRIST,BETH.

  • Jerry S.

    It is healthy for the LORD’s assembly of believers to discuss these matters of doctrine, tradition and systematic theologies of the church that the english speaking world are taught as we are brought up in our faith. There are a lot of traditions of man that have worked there way in thru translating and interpretation to a target language. The LORD is so faithful to personally show each of us who He is and worthy of our trust to show us His Truth.

    Beth, please check the foot notes for 1 John 5:7, the rest of the verses you mention concern man, not GOD.
    J.

    • http://blogs.blueletterbible Beth Morgan

      JERRY S. I KNOW THE REST OF THOSE VERSES WERE ABOUT MAN, YOU MISSED THE POINT.I WAS SHOWING THAT AS THE FATHER,SON,AND HOLY GHOST ARE “ONE”,SO IT IS WITH HUSBAND AND WIFE.ALL SEPARATE ENITIES BUT STILL ONE IN UNISON,AGREEMENT,ETC.

      • Jerry S.

        I did get that point, but man’s ability to be in unison it is no proof that it is the same with God.
        (not sure why all capital letters?)
        J.

  • Cheryl

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Gen 1:26

    Let US make man in OUR image.

    Jhn 10:30 “I and [My] Father are one.”

    Jhn 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

    Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

    Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

    Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ‘?

    Jhn 10:35 “If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

    Jhn 10:36 “do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

    Jhn 10:37 “If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;

    Jhn 10:38 “but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father [is] in Me, and I in Him.”

    also

    Jhn 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

    ALL THREE COME TOGETHER

    Mat 12:32 “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the [age] to come.

    1Cr 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

    Brothers and Sisters do not stumble in our foolishness. Somethings must be excepted in faith.

    Honestly I don’t even know what the doctrine is, but I know the Word of God, and I believe the Word of God, may I learn it well enough to be completely written on my heart.

  • Walter Morgan

    God inspired me one day to literally “do my own homework” after my wife had been challenged by a JW about the divinity of Jesus. The LORD challenged me to “be ready always to give a reason for the hope that is in you.” After much prayer and searching “the scriptures daily,” I amassed twenty-eight pages of gleanings from God’s word. Some Biblically based teaching gave me insight to understand factors that weren’t immediately obvious. I would like to pass on a few of the blessings that God bestowed upon me.

    God’s Personality

    In Gen.1: 1, the Hebrew word for God, “Elohiym,” is plural and is repeated 32 times in this chapter. It does not mean “the excellence of majesty.” When Moses, superintended by the Spirit, (2 Peter 1: 21), chose a plural name for God (when he could have easily used the singular), he was establishing a multiple personality.

    Gen.1: 26, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:” (A created co-creator is not even hinted at, but a person co-equal with God is definitely portrayed.)

    Gen. 11:7 “Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”

    Gen. 3: 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    Deuteronomy 6: 4, “The LORD [Jehovah] our God [Elohiym] is one LORD [Jehovah]”.

    The word for “one” in this great declaration is not “yachid” which means “absolute mathematical oneness” but rather “echad” which means the “united one.” This definition of the word “echad” is verified graphically in Gen. 1: 5, where evening and morning make up one day, and in Gen.2: 24, in the description of marriage, a man and his wife are called one flesh.

    The Divinity of Jesus

    Jesus is called God by God the Father: Hebrews 1: 8-9
    8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”

    Matthew 1: 23b … and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    Jesus is the Creator

    Gen. 1: 1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

    John 1: 1-5 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”

    Jesus did not deny that He is God: and equated the title of “the Son of God” to being God in the flesh John 10: 33 – 42.
    “The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
    Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
    If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
    Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
    If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
    But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.
    Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
    And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
    And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
    And many believed on him there.”

    Thomas’ Confession Of Jesus:
    Jesus made Himself equal with God. “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.” (John 20:28). Thomas confessed to Jesus’ Deity. Jesus did not rebuke Him for this. To the contrary, “Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.” (John 20:29).

    Jesus forgives sins in His name: (and only God can forgive sins)

    Dan. 9: 9 “To the Lord our God [belong] mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;”

    Mark 2: 5-11
    “When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
    But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
    Why doth this [man] thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
    And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
    Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, [Thy] sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
    But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
    I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.”

    Luke 24: 46, 47 “And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
    And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”

    Then there are verses about miracles (healing raising the dead, etc.), and divine characteristics (omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence). It goes on and on and on.

    Then the attributes of God are identified in the Holy Ghost.

    Then I learned that the Father raised Jesus from the dead, and Jesus raised Jesus from the dead and the Holy Ghost raised Jesus from the dead.

    Then, kind of like the icing on the cake, I learned that Godhead is mentioned in the Bible three times. Go figure. What else would I expect? God just likes doing things like that.

    Here are three more things to consider (yeah, I know, three more, I couldn’t resist, please forgive me but you have to admit, it does make the point).

    First:
    Now, we know that the faith is always under attack from the enemy. I wouldn’t expect any less. And his favorite technique is to attack the Word of God. His first recorded words were a question to raise doubt in Eve’s heart, “Yeah, hath God said…” So, it is no surprise, that the best English version of the Bible (that was translated from the true Masoretic Old Testament Hebrew manuscripts and the true Syrian Greek New Testament manuscripts), has been continuously questioned and doubted by the world (with every phony excuse under the sun). In that true English version you will find the verse that doesn’t exist in any other presentation, except the NKJV (which has a vast multitude of other problems that betray the true Word of God). In the King James Authorized Version you will read the real verse 1 John 5: 7, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

    Second:
    That goes along just fine with the great commission, which reveals the equal significance of the Godhead.
    Matt. 28: 19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

    Third:
    Finally, all three are seen in the incarnation (a truly supernatural event).
    Luke 1: 35 “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

    God help us to do our homework. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.

    • http://blogs.blueletterbible Beth Morgan

      Walter,I think you’re doing a great job on “your homework”!!

    • Cheryl

      Walter nicely wrote. “like”

      • Cheryl

        I just came along this in my reading, and thought I would share on this post.Just another example of Jesus and the Father are one.

        Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

        Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

        Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

        Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

        Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father that] in Him all the fullness should dwell,

        Col 1:20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

        It just seems clear to me that Jesus is God in the flesh, and the Holy Spirit (for lack of better words) is our piece of Jesus in us.

    • Jerry S.

      I don’t usually read or write comments that are as long as yours but caught your mention of 1 Jhn. 5: 7 as I glanced thru it. So let me try to be brief and at the risk of being aligned with the Accuser of Gods people Israel I’ll continue the conversation with you by going to the history of William Tyndale.

      It is said that his last words while being burned by the Church of England were “Lord, open the king of England’s eyes”, namely Henry VIII. Tyndale was fluent in eight languages and translated scripture from Hebrew and Greek along with the help of others. Quoting historians “his work is not only the basis of those portions of the Authorized King James Version of 1611, but constitutes nine-tenths of that translation, and very largely that of the English Revised Version of 1885.” It’s the left over 1/10th that I speak of in my comment above. Tyndale was martyred and silenced because he was true to the original text which in turn exposed The Churches, Anglican and Roman, inserted doctrines. It took an allegiance of religious leaders and state, because the religious leaders did not have the authority to execute, that murdered Tyndale, sound familiar? The state, seeing an opportunity for more power coopted the scripture for its own by placing its name on and in the translations i.e., the name James is inserted for the transliterated name Jacob of the Hebrew name Ya`aqob. A healthy and sincere question would be, why do the English translations use Jacob for OT and James for NT?

      Quoting footnotes found in Blue Letter Bible on 1 Jhn. 5: 7 – [Footnote: * late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify “in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth: the” (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century).]

      Let me name drop and reference Oswald Chambers in pointing out that we all are susceptible in placing things, beliefs, service, ourselves in front of or at least beside God and encourage you to trust in Yeshuah the Messiah of Israel and Him alone.

      • Walter Morgan

        Greetings Jerry;

        Thank you for “continuing the conversation”. I know that it was a long post but I couldn’t figure out how to shorten it without losing the points that the LORD had revealed to me. This post is long also, but it will be informative. We have an obligation to learn and teach the facts (knowledge). Hosea 4: 6 “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge…” So, here we go.

        The first Greek version of what was the collection of the separate parts of the Syrian Greek scriptures to be printed in 1514 was called the Complutensian Polyglot. This task was carried out by Desiderius Erasmus. You’ve probably heard the name Erasmus. He was Roman Catholic but he was a part of that Reformation time. His was the first Greek NT to be printed. There were many copies made and he had editions. At least four of them that we know of: in 1519, 1522, 1527, and then 1533.
        Others trusted Erasmus’s work. He did a great job assimilating all the manuscripts that he knew, that were available. They represented the Byzantine tradition (from Syrian Greek manuscripts) because the Byzantines were the ones using the Greek Bible (not the Latin Vulgate).
        William Tyndale’s NT was the first printed English NT (in 1525). He translated it from Erasmus’s Byzantine Greek manuscript.

        In the preface to the original 1611 edition of the King James Authorized Version, the translator said that their purpose was: “Not to make a new translation, but to make a good one better.” They spoke of being indebted to the work of William Tyndale. So yes, they used Tyndale’s NT to guide them in accurate and suitable translation work of the words but the text was derived from the content of the original Syrian Greek manuscripts, not the Alexandrian Greek manuscripts.

        Some people have said, “Isn’t the King James just based on Latin?” It is true that the major edition of the text used by the Roman Catholic Church for over a thousand years was Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. And they certainly did refer to that because a man who wrote in the fourth century would certainly know more about how Greek should be translated than you would 1100 years later. However, the argument that they did not consult the original tongues is a direct attack against what is clearly stated in all the documents related to the King James Authorized Version and the story about how it was done. They consulted the manuscripts that were available to them in Greek, which did deal primarily with what we call a Byzantine text. These are just some basic facts about your King James Authorized Version.

        I am sure that we are aware that commentaries and marginal notes are not scripture and therefore are not to be held in the same status of being the revealed, infallible and inerrant word of God, but it is wise to remind ourselves of what should be the obvious.

        One point that needs to be discussed is the marginal notes, or footnotes that go along the lines of, “The oldest available manuscripts do not include this verse.” Or they might say, “This verse is not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century.”

        One has to ask, “Does oldest always mean ‘best’?” When we are discussing the NT scriptures we need to remember that the originals were what became know as Syrian Greek texts, (a lot of them originated in Antioch, in Syria). Peter’s letters were written from Babylon (not Rome – Peter was never in Rome, but that’s another study), to where the Jewish believers escaped from the Roman sword. Of course many of Paul’s letters were written in Rome and then copied in, or near Antioch. Copies of the whole Bible eventually got to Alexandria (the seat of learning in Egypt – the place that God warns us not to go for help) where God didn’t fit into their club so they changed the scriptures to make it more acceptable to their lifestyle (exactly what God warned us about).

        The real Christians found out about these perversions and tried to destroy them but the enemy managed to hide a couple. The original Syrian Greek manuscripts were always being read and diligently copied and it is only natural that they would wear out and we no longer have them today. Also, the true copies of the originals were being read and diligently copied while the first, second, third (and so on) generations were being read and diligently copied. Meanwhile, the phony Alexandrian copies ended up “sitting on a shelf” somewhere. When they were “discovered” they were found to be “older” than the existing Syrian Greek manuscript copies because they never were used, so they never got worn out. The problem, that nobody who refers them wants to admit, is they didn’t get used and worn out because they were garbage. They were not the true word of God.

        It is these false manuscripts, the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus, which Westcott and Hort used to generate the English Revised Version (1881 – 1885) and every other new English version. Am I just talking through my hat? Is there verification that the Syrian Greek manuscripts are actual copies of the originals? I thought you’d never ask. There are many factors that prove the faithfulness of the Syrian Greek manuscripts. One of the best is, the writings of the many church leaders who had followed the apostles and had learned at their feet. They wrote massive quantities of books and letters teaching about, and quoting the original scriptures in thousands of instances. As one teacher says, they wrote and quoted “voluminously”. And would anybody care to guess what source of manuscripts they quote from? Here is the kicker, their books and letters, quoting from the original Syrian Greek manuscripts, predate those “older” Alexandrian Greek manuscripts.

        You will be interested to know that those books and letters written by the church leaders quoting 1 John 5 quoted the true verse 7 revealing the triune Godhead.

        I pray for God to bless you as you read.

        • Jerry S.

          Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and excellent insight into the history of our faith. Several things caught my attention as I read your posting. For the sake of time and writing space, allow me to make a list and you can address them as you please.

          Why was William Tyndale murdered by the church/state?

          W.T. translated OT scripture also along with NT scripture. Those would be pure Hebrew manuscripts, no Greek involved.

          You wrote “Not to make a new translation, but to make a good one better.” That new and improved leaves me skeptical considering his untimely demise.

          The footnote in the Blue Letter Bible says “any”, not “oldest”.

          Let met quote my reference material on 1 John 5 – [this is one of those passages where the UBS differs from the Textus Receptus. I have translated the UBS, because no ancient manuscript contains the "Father, Word, Holy Spirit" text included in the TR, and no ancient writer mentions it either. The first recorded appearance of the phrase that we know of was in about 385. Different variations are judged as possible, likely, probably, highly probably, etc. On the phrasing in the TR, the judgment is: "That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain in the light of the following considerations...." Some translations still include the words because people are used to them.]

          If I may suggest going further beyond the Greek through the Septuagint to the Hebrew because Jesus (Greek transliteration) is the Hebrew Messiah. Greeks had no concept of a Messiah until Hebrews brought it to them.

          Thank you again.
          J.

  • steve morrow

    1 John 1:33
    And I knew HIM not
    But He that sent me to baptize with water the same said unto me
    Upon whom thou shalt see the spirit descending and remaining on HIM the same is HE which baptizeth with the holy spirit

    John 1:34
    And I saw and bare record that this is THE SON OF GOD

    John 3:3
    JESUS answered and said unto him
    Verily Verily I say unto thee
    Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of GOD

    1 Peter 1:23
    Being born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible
    —BY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOREVER—

    John 3:34
    For HE whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD
    For GOD giveth not the spirit by measure unto HIM

    Isaiah 11:1
    And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse
    And a branch shall grow out of his roots

    Isaiah 11:2
    And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon HIM
    THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING
    THE SPIRIT OF COUNSEL AND MIGHT
    THE SPIRIT OF KNOWLEDGE AND OF THE FEAR OF THE LORD

    Psalm 19:9
    The fear of THE LORD IS CLEAN enduring forever
    The judgements of THE LORD are true and righteous altogether

    Isaiah 30:1
    Woe to the rebellious children saith the LORD
    That take counsel but not of ME and that cover with a covering
    But not of my spirit that they may add sin to sin

    John 5:19
    Then answered JESUS and said unto them
    Verily Verily I say unto you The SON can do nothing of HIMSELF
    But what HE seeth the FATHER do for what things soever HE doeth
    THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE

    John 5:20
    For THE FATHER loveth the SON and showeth HIM all things that
    HIMSELF doeth AND HE WILL SHOW HIM GREATER WORKS THAN THESE THAT YOU MAY MARVEL

    John 6:63
    It is the spirit that quickeneth
    The flesh profiteth nothing
    THE WORDS —I— SPEAK UNTO YOU
    THEY ARE SPIRIT
    AND THEY ARE LIFE

    John 8:28-32
    Then said JESUS unto them
    When you shall have lifted up the SON OF MAN then shall you know
    that I am HE and that I DO NOTHING OF MYSELF
    But as —MY FATHER—hath taught ME I SPEAK these things
    (29)And HE that sent sent ME is with ME
    THE FATHER HATH NOT LEFT ME ALONE
    FOR I DO ALWAYS THOSE THINGS THAT PLEASE HIM
    (30)And as HE spake these words many believed on HIM
    (31) Then said JESUS to those Jews which believed on HIM
    —IF— you continue in —MY— words then are you MY disciples indeed
    (32)And you shall know the truth and truth shall make you free

    John 12:49
    For I have not spoken of MYSELF
    BUT THE FATHER WHICH SENT ME
    HE GAVE ME A COMMANDMENT
    WHAT I SHOULD SAY AND WHAT I SHOULD SPEAK

    John 12:50
    And I know that HIS commandment is life everlasting
    WHATSOEVER I SPEAK THEREFORE EVEN AS THE FATHER SAID UNTO ME SO I SPEAK

    John 14:6
    JESUS saith unto him
    I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE
    NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER —BUT BY ME—

    Romans 81&2
    There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in CHRIST JESUS who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit
    (2)FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS
    HATH MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH

    Ezekiel 36:27
    And I will put MY spirit within you
    and cause you to walk in MY statutes
    and you shall keep MY judgements—AND DO THEM—

    Ezekiel 36:26
    A new heart also will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you
    And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh
    and I will give you an heart of FLESH

    2 Corinthians 3:3&4
    For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of CHRIST ministered by us written not with ink but with the spirit of the LIVING GOD not in tables of stone but in FLESHY tables of the heart
    (4) And such trust have we through CHRIST to GOD-ward

    John 6:56
    He that eateth MY flesh and drinketh MY blood dwelleth in ME and I in him

    John 14:18
    I will not leave you comfortless I will come to you

    2 Corinthians 1:3&4
    Blessed be GOD even THE FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST
    The FATHER of mercies
    AND THE FATHER OF ALL COMFORT
    (4)WHO COMFORTETH US IN ALL OUR TRIBULATION
    that we may be able to comfort them which are in trouble
    BY THE COMFORT WHEREWITH WE OURSELVES ARE COMFORTED OF GOD

    John 15:3
    Now you are clean through the word which —I— have spoken to you

    Ezekiel 36:25
    Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you
    and you shall be clean from all your filthiness
    and from all your idols will I cleanse you

    Colossians 3:5
    Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth
    fornication uncleanness inordinate affection evil concupiscence
    AND COVETOUSNESS WHICH IS IDOLATRY

    1 Samuel 15:23
    For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft
    And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry
    BECAUSE THOU HATH REJECTED THE WORD OF THE LORD
    HE hath also rejected thee from being king

    1 Corinthians 2:12-16
    Now we have received not the spirit of the world
    BUT THE SPIRIT WHICH IS OF GOD
    THAT WE MIGHT KNOW THE THINGS THAT ARE FREELY GIVEN TO US OF GOD
    (13)—WHICH THINGS ALSO WE SPEAK—not in the words which mans wisdom teacheth but which the holy spirit teacheth comparing
    spiritual things with spiritual
    (14)But the natural man receiveth not the the things of the spirit of GOD for they are foolishness unto him
    neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned
    (15) BUT HE THAT IS SPIRITUAL JUDGETH ALL THINGS
    yet he himself is judged of no man
    (16)— FOR WHO HATH KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD THAT HE MAY INSTRUCT HIM—BUT WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST—

    1 Corinthians 10:3&4
    And did all eat the same spiritual meat
    (4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink
    For they drank of that spiritual ROCK that followed them
    AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST

    John 6:54&55
    Whoso eateth MY flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life
    AND I WILL RAISE—HIM— UP AT THE LAST DAY
    (55)FOR MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED AND MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED

    1 Corinthians 15:45&46
    And so it is written
    The first Adam was made a living soul
    The last Adam was made a quickening spirit
    (46)Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual but that which is natural–AND AFTERWARD THAT WHICH IS SPIRITUAL—

    John 5:21
    For as the FATHER raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them
    EVEN SO THE SON QUICKENETH WHOM HE WILL

    Psalm 119:25
    My soul cleaveth unto the dust
    Quicken thou me according to thy word

    Psalm 119:37
    Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity
    And quicken thou me in thy way

    Psalm 119:40
    Behold I have longed after thy precepts
    Quicken me in thy righteousness

    Psalm 119:107
    I am afflicted very much
    Quicken me O LORD according unto thy word

    Psalm 119:149
    Hear my voice according unto thy loving kindness
    O LORD quicken me according to thy judgement

    Psalm 119:154—————————Psalm 119:155
    Plead my cause and deliver me
    Quicken me according to thy word

    Psalm 119:156
    Great are thy tender mercies O LORD
    Quicken me according to thy judgements

    Psalm 119:159
    Consider how I love thy precepts
    Quicken me O LORD according to thy loving kindness

    Psalm 143:11
    Quicken me O LORD for thy names sake
    For thy righteousnesses sake bring my soul out of trouble

    Psalm 119:88
    Quicken me after thy loving kindness
    So shall I keep the testimonies of thy mouth

    Ezekiel 44:23
    And they shall teach MY people the difference between the holy and the profane and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean

    2 Thessalonians 2:8
    And then shall that wicked be revealed
    Whom the LORD shall consume with the spirit of HIS mouth
    And shall destroy with the brightness of HIS coming

    Revelation 19:10
    And I fell at his feet to worship him and he said unto me see thou do it not
    I am thy fellow servant and of thy brethren that have the testimony of JESUS
    —WORSHIP GOD FOR THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY—

    Matthew 23:10
    NIETHER BE YE CALLED MASTERS
    FOR—ONE—IS YOUR MASTER EVEN CHRIST
    AND YOU ARE BRETHREN

    Luke 8:21
    AND HE ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO THEM
    MY MOTHER AND MY BRETHREN ARE THESE WHICH HERE THE WORD OF GOD
    —-AND DO IT—-

    Hebrews 1:1&2
    GOD who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets
    (2) Hath in these last days—SPOKEN UNTO US BY HIS SON—
    whom HE hath appointed heir of —ALL THINGS— by whom HE also made the the worlds

    1 Timothy 6:3&4
    —IF— ANY— man teach otherwise and consent not to wholesome words EVEN THE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST
    and to the doctrine which is according to godliness
    (4)HE IS PROUD KNOWING NOTHING……………

    1 Timothy 2:5
    FOR THERE IS ONE GOD AND—ONE— MEDIATOR BETWEEN god AND MEN
    THE MAN JESUS CHRIST

    Psalm 51:10
    CREATE IN ME A CLEAN HEART O GOD
    AND RENEW A RIGHT SPIRIT WITHIN ME

    LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

  • Karen

    You say “there are no analogies in nature”

    What about h2o?
    -water
    -ice
    -vapor

  • http://www.aol.com Andybob

    Greetings to you all in the name of our Lord, Jesus!

    We’ve had a lively discussion haven’t we?

    Trinity vs Oneness looks to be the topic of discussion.
    I am sharing some of my thoughts today and I pray that they are done in love (agape) so that you may be edified and built up in your faith.

    I have studied the doctrine of the trinity and the doctrine of the oneness of God for the past 3 decades and strictly adhereing the the Bible here is what I have concluded about God and about Jesus.

    ……………….Attributes of God……………………………….

    Throughout the Bible we see many scriptures that describe God, who He is, His nature and things that He is not. I have found this to be the base or foundation for my belief and understanding of Him who I love with all my heart or should I better, say I am learning to love with “ALL” my heart.

    Here are some of His attributes with supporting scripture references:

    - God’s name is Yahweh or Jehovah (Exodus 3:14)

    - Yahweh/God is the creator (Gen 1:1, Isa 40:28, Isa 43:15, Jer 32:17)

    - God is love (agape) (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)

    - God is eternal ( Deut 33:27, 1 Tim 1:17, Heb 9:14)

    - God is a spirit ( John 4:24, Heb 9:14)

    - God is all knowing or omniscient (Isa 40:28, Psalm 147:5, Mat 10:30)

    - God is everywhere present or omnipresent (Psalm 139:8, Jeremiah 23:23-24)

    - God is all powerful or omnipotent (Job 42:2, Luke 1:37, Jeremiah 32:17, 27)

    - God cannot be tempted (James 1:13)

    - God is not a man (Numbers 23:19, 1 Sam 15:29)

    - God is not a liar (Deut 32:4, Numbers 23:19, 1 Sam 15:29)

    - God is invisible (1 Tim 1:17)

    - God is immortal (1 Tim 1:17)

    As I mentioned these are but a few verses I have found to be very helpful for me to understand who God is. Can you come up with some more? It would help me and others if you did.

    ******* Attributes of Jesus Christ **********************

    Now let’s take a look at who Jesus Christ is and some of his attributes. We, as Christians, can identify ourselves with him because he lived life on earth just like we do and went through many things like we do in our everyday lives but with one GREAT BIG exception, though tempted he never sinned (Heb 4:15), however we all have sinned (Romans 3:23).

    - Jesus had a beginning or he was born (Mat 1:16, Mat 2:1)

    - Jesus prayed to God (Mat 26:39, Mat 14:23, John 17:1-5)

    - Jesus had a body (Luke 23:52, Mark 15:23)

    - Jesus had a soul (Mat 26:38)

    - Jesus had a spirit (Mark 2:8, Luke 23:46)

    - Jesus was hungry and ate food (Mat 4:2, Mark 11:13, Mark 14:22)

    - Jesus sang songs (Mat 26:30, Mark 14:26)

    - Jesus did not know everything (Mark 13:32)

    - Jesus was a man (1 Tim 2:5, Mat 8:20)

    - Jesus died (Mark 15:37-39, Luke 23:46)

    - Jesus wept (John 11:35)

    - Jesus was tempted (Mark 1:13, Luke 4:2, Heb 4:15

    - Jesus worshiped God (Heb 5:7)

    - Jesus had his Father’s name (Jesus’ name mean Yahweh the Savior or Yahweh is Savior) (John 17:11)

    - Jesus is the first born of many brethren (Rom 8:29)

    - God, who dwelt in, or lived in Jesus Christ, did the miracles (John 14:10)

    While I was in Bible College I was involved in a ministry called, “The Bible Answer Stand”. We used to spread the Gospel to both the saved and unsaved. We did our best to answer people’s questions strictly from the bible. Some of the questions were easy, like, “how did Noah get the animals in the ark, or did Jesus have brothers and sisters in his immediate family”.

    Every once in a while we would get asked some difficult questions like, “When Jesus died on the cross did a man die or did God die?” Another tough one was, “When Jesus was in the wilderness being tempted was a man tempted or was God tempted?”
    Sometimes we did not have the answer but we would have to say, “I not sure what the answer is, but I’d like to get back to you on that.”

    With these two very tough questions that were asked of us I had to be like the Berean Church members were and search the scriptures to see what the answer was and whether or not what I had been taught was the truth.

    I have learned that God is one (Deut 6:4), and there are now other Gods or persons of God. Jesus was a man in dwelt by God our Father and God used him as His mouth peace and servant to do His will so mankind could be saved.

    When Jesus died on the cross it was a man dieing, who had never sinned, because God is eternal and cannot die.

    When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness it was a man being tempted not God because God cannot be tempted and he does not tempt men.

    With that said I know the Bible, that is the Word of God is true and it clearly describes who God is and who Jesus is. We need to be careful and not follow the traditions of men but let the Word of God speak for itself and let it interpret itself.

    In love I urge each one of you to study the scriptures and find what the Attributes of God are and what the attributes of Jesus are. You will then see a clear distinction between the two.

    The key here is to understand that Jesus was in-dwelt by our God and Father just as He indwells us today and indwelt the prophets of old.

    This is how you can understand that when a person lays hands on another person to heal or raise them from the dead that it is not the person who has the power but it is God in them doing the work!

    God Bless each of you with His love, mercy and awesome GRACE!

    Agape,
    Andybob

    • http://blogs.blueletterbible Beth Morgan

      Andybob, I find it hard to believe that Jesus is “just a man”.What do you do[ with COL.1:16? Did God create EVERYTHING for just a man? How is it that just a man [Jesus] can put you in or take you out of the “Lamb’s Book of Life”, or is able to forgive sins??[rev3:5,rev13:8]Why would God turn everything over to just a man??John3:35,”The Father loveth the Son,and hath given all things into His hand,last my favorite,1John4:9″In this was manisfested the love of God toward us ,because that God SENT His only begotten Son into the world,that we might live through Him.Does this not lead us to believe that Jesus [WORD] was already in heaven and that He is God,also,that He is both God and man[matt.1:18,20]born of human[Mary]and God[Holy Ghost]!! THERE’S JUST TO MANY SCRIPTURES TO BACK UP THAT THE THREE ARE ONE.[FATHER,SON,AND HOLY GHOST]

      • Dale

        If I may add to the already given answers in brief:

        1)The Greek text clearly says in Col 1:16-17: For IN (that is, on account of him or becuase of him or for the sake of him or similar) him all things were created, both in the heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities – all things were created THROUGH him and FOR him (NAS 1996).

        This verse does NOT say Jesus Christ created the Heavens and earth for that would clearly contradict the many verses that says God alone created the Heaven and earth.

        Isa 45:8 KJV 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD (YAHWEH) have created it. (Also Deut 4:32; Pas 148:5; Isa 4:26; 42:5, etc)

        Neh 9:6 KJV 6 Thou, even thou, art LORD (YAHWEH) alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

        Job 9:8 KJV) 8 Which ALONE spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

        2)In a very real sense, God did create everything for Jesus Christ (and those who will be in Jesus Christ and become like him). So the answer is YES!

        Psa 8:4-6 KJV 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
        5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
        6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

        Act 2:33 KJV 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

        Phi 2:9-11 KJV 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
        10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
        11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

        God only needed one man that would perfectly obey him and never sin. God only needed one man who would love him perfectly and to the full and live to please Him. Jesus fulfilled the whole purpose why God created the Heavens and the earth and pleased Him to the full. Jesus was the reason God created the heavens and earth. Yet God in His great mercy and love will include all those who accept Christ and become like him. God will accept all the Old Covenant saints who endeavored to live for him because of Christ. God is truly good to man and if man would just say yes to him and accept his son, he would have eternal life.

        3)Because God gave him that authority! Mat 9:6 KJV) 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power (authority) on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

        Joh 5:26-30 KJV 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
        27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
        28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
        29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
        30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
        John 3:35

        4)After all Jesus did for you, God would turn everything over to just a man. The Bible says Jesus gave his soul for our sins. Jesus as the perfect man who never sinned was willing to go to the lake of fire forever and ever that you might be saved. This was the decision he was making in the garden of Gethsemane in which he said his soul was troubled even unto death and he sweat as it were great drops of blood. Jesus wasn’t afraid of the torture of the cross. He knew he came to give his life as ransom for many. He feared being separated from his heavenly father forever and ever in the lake of fire. But God heard him and answered his prayer. God is a just God, and God demands punishment for sins. But Jesus was the only one worthy to take our place and die in our stead so we can be forgiven and not have to go to the lake of fire. God counted Jesus’ decision to do this as good enough so He did not have to actually send him to the lake of fire.

        Mat 20:28 KJV 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life (Greek = Soul) a ransom for many.
        Heb 5:7-11 KJV 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
        8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
        9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
        10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
        11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

        Act 2:31-36 KJV 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
        32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
        33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
        34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
        35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
        36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

        After all Jesus did for us, God has made him our Lord and master and seated him at His right hand and placed the entire church under his authority. Jesus had to be a man or he couldn’t have been the perfect sacrifice to die in our stead.

        5)John3:35,”The Father loveth the Son,and hath given all things into His hand,last my favorite,1John4:9″In this was manisfested the love of God toward us ,because that God SENT His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. Does this not lead us to believe that Jesus [WORD] was already in heaven and that He is God,also,that He is both God and man[matt.1:18,20]born of human[Mary]and God[Holy Ghost]!!

        No. God sent Jesus into the world to minster from Nazareth. There is no scripture that says Jesus preexisted in heaven. God sent Jesus into the world after he overcame his temptation in the wilderness for only then was he proven to be faithful and could be the Messiah. Jesus is not both man and God. Jesus was a full man that God manifest Himself through. The Jews saw God manifested through the man Christ Jesus. God did come unto his own people through their Messiah. Over and over again Jesus called himself the son of man, the son of God. Nowhere did he ever call himself God or God the son. Much, much more can be said here but this needs to be broken down into sections As you cover to wide of an area.

        6)There is not one scripture that says God is three and yet there are at least 6 scriptures that clearly say God is one (Ja 2:19; Gal 3:20; Ro 3:30; Mark 12:25, 32; Deut 6:4)

  • http://blogs.blueletterbible Beth Morgan

    CONTINUED;AS,TO WHO DIED ON THE CROSS,IT WAS THE FLESH THAT DIED, THE PART THAT WAS BORN OF MARY. THE GOD PART[WORD] DID NOT DIE.IN JOHN 1:14 “AND THE WORD[GOD]WAS MADE FLESH,AND DWELT AMONG US,[AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY,THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,]FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.IN JOHN1:1,WE SEE THIS MORE ,”IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD,AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD…..IF I MAY,THE FLESH[SIN NATURE]IS WHAT DIED,WHEN JESUS TOOK UPON HIMSELF ALL OF OUR SINS, THATS WHAT DIED.IN ROMANS6:23 “FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH;BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.JESUS TOOK UPON HIMSELF OUR SIN.
    Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed ?
    Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
    Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
    Isa 53:4 ¶ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
    Isa 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
    Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
    Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
    Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
    Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
    Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
    Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
    Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
    HOPE THIS HELPED. LOVE TO YOU ALL,BETH

    • http://www.aol.com Andybob

      Thanks for the reply Beth,

      I only listed the attributes of God and Jesus Christ from the Bible and tried to show you and the rest of my bretheren that there is a clear distiction between the Almighty God, Yahweh, and the man Jesus Christ.

      Jesus the man, said to God, “Why have you forsaken me?” (Matt 27:46,Mark 15:34). This is not one God saying to another God why have you left me but the man, Jesus, saying to our God and Father why have you left me? It was because the man Jesus had become sin offering for all of us.

      This same man (Jesus) was perfected by the things that he suffered according to Hebrews 5:8-9 just as we are being perfected through the trials that we suffer through and are very much like Jesus in this regard (1 Peter 4:12-13.

      The word of God does not contradict itself and Jesus was a man and God, our heavenly Father, lived in him just as he lives in us today.

      Knowing this fact that “God was in Jesus” doing the miracles (John 14:10)helps one understand that a man died on the cross and that a man, our lovely savior, Jesus Christ, was tempted in the wilderness, and this same man was exalted by our God and Father to the position he holds today at God’s right hand and is our mediator.

      It states very clearly 1 Tim 2:5 “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the “man” Jesus Christ.

      My heart’s intent here is to aid my brothers and sisters so they do not get confused by the traditions of men that lead them astray when learning about who God (Yahweh) is and who Jesus is because the scriptures speak for themselves and clearly state that it is “God in Christ”. In 2 Corinthians 5:19 we learn “that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself…”

      I urge us to be truthful with God’s word and apply what we’ve learned about who God is and who Jesus is strictly from the scriptures (please see some of the Attributes I listed “from” the scriptures).

      If something is ambiguous to someone then I suggest they placed it on the shelf and gain a fuller understanding of those scriptures that are easily interpreted and then take on those that are hard to understand because this will help one unlock those that are hard to understand. These is practicing principles of good hermeneutics ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics ).

      Thanks again for your wonderful heart and reply my sister,

      Agape,
      Your servant, Andybob

      .

  • William

    Jesus himself makes clear that he is not God or a part of some trinity by making a clear distinction between himself and his Father who sent him, whom he refers to as “you, the only true God” in John 17:3.

    If Jesus is God he would not have called the one to whom he was parying “the only true God.”

    Likewise, in Revelation 3:12, Jesus is now back in heaven, and still he has one whom he calls “my God.” NOTE:

    “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and I will write upon him my new name.” (KJV, UPPERCASE added for emphasis.)

  • http://www.aol.com andybob

    Brother William,

    Well said, Thank You!

    As I was pulling together my list of attributes about God and the “Man” Jesus Christ I showed that Jeus prayed to God and gave the reference you gave in John 17:3 but did not put down the reference from Revelation 3:12. I have add that to my Bible study notes.

    Thank you Faithful One!

    Your Brother and Servant,
    Andybob

    • Pete Hernandez

      Grandfather is not in the bible but I have one.You reject Jesus as God.you are not brothers,but of your father the devil. Jesus said in John 8:24 unless you believe that I am you shall die in your sins, look at ex 3:14 that, I AM will cast you into hell for neglecting so great a salvation.REPENT

      • Dale

        1)The concept of grandfather is in the Bible but the concept of the Trinity is not in the Bible (nor in words)

        2)EX 3:14 refers to Yahweh Elohim, which Jesus called his father. So are you claiming that Jesus is Yahweh Elohim, the father? Most Trinitarians don’t claim Jesus is the father but when the scriptures speak of the father, they know it refers to Yahweh Elohim.

        3)God was speaking through Jesus when he said unless you believe that I am. I believe in the meaning of this verse. God was giving credence to Jesus ministry for he was letting the stubborn Jewish leaders know that the God that was being manifested through Jesus was none other than Yahweh Elohim himself, Emanuel, God with us in his son.

        4)In past revivals, Trinitarians and oneness believers stood side by side praising and worshipping God. The oneness believers didn’t accuse their brothers (whom they loved) as being of the devil. Both Trinitarian and oneness believers loved one another, loved God and Jesus Christ and won souls together and yet you accuse oneness believers of being of the devil. I think you are the one who needs to repent of denying your brothers in the Lord.

        5)Mark 3:28-29 NIV
        28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”

        You’re accusing the work done in oneness believers of being of the devil and this is a serious sin before God. To say ones Christians who openly love Jesus and God and work for him and win many souls over to the Lord as being of the devil is ludicrous. Jesus said a house divided against itself cannot stand. Judge not least you be judge, Jesus said (mat 7:1)

      • Dale

        Addendum:

        1)Jesus said you shall know whether the tree is good or bad by its fruits. Jesus said one must be born –again (or from above) in order to get to heaven. All born –again believers are part of the family of God. Trinitarians as well as oneness believers will make it to heaven because they are believers in Jesus and have accept Jesus’ sacrifice for their sin so they can be forgiven before God. Oneness believers accept their brothers in the Lord for we have a common father because of our faith and acceptance of our Lord Jesus Christ. Oneness believers are just as much a follower of Christ as Trinitarians.

        2)This shows your great ignorance of church history and how God united oneness believers and Trinitarians together to love and serve Him and Jesus Christ. Also there are many oneness churches you can go to and hear Christians love and worship Jesus and win souls for Christ and yet you say they are of the devil. Have you been to any oneness church and if not, why are you condemning the innocent?

        3)The Apostle John said in 1 John 4:20-21= 20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

        We are commanded to love our brothers, not accuse them of being of the devil just because they believe differently than you do in theology of the God essence. Oneness believers don’t treat Trinitarians like this! We fully recognize all born again believers as of the same house of faith and children of the King. We are all sons of God even though we differ in theology.

  • Dale

    If the bible clearly teaches the Trinity as many claim, then why did the International Standard Bible encyclopedia (made up of Trinitarian scholars) all say that the Bible does not teach it? Are you more scholarly then they are? These are Trinitarian scholars who admit the Bible does not directly teach the doctrine of the Trinity but that it was formulated by councils of men later on in the 4-5th centuries AD at counsel of Nicaea and Chalcedon. Read the article on the Trinity in ISBE.

  • Dale

    The international Standard Bible Encyclopedia, under the heading of Trinity and written by Trinitarian scholars, admit the Trinity is not taught in the Bible

    International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Original 1915 Edition) under Trinity:

    1. The Term “Trinity”: The term “Trinity” is not a Biblical term, and we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence [conceivable existence]. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture [Dale = But the words of scripture convey the truth of scripture! If it is not in the words of scripture, than how can it convey the truth of scripture?] The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in technical terms, supplied by philosophical reflection; but the doctrine stated is a genuinely Scriptural doctrine.

    2. Purely a Revealed Doctrine: In point of fact, the doctrine of the Trinity is purely a revealed doctrine. That is to say, it embodies a truth which has never been discovered, and is indiscoverable, by natural reason. With all his searching, man has not been able to find out for himself the deepest things of God.

    International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (revised edition, 1979) under Trinity:

    I. Introduction. — Though “trinity” is a second-century [really a forth century term – no evidence used in the 2nd century] term found nowhere in the Bible, and the Scriptures present no finished Trinitarian statement [no systematic theology in the NT], the NT does contain most of the building materials for later doctrine [Interpolations]. In particular, while insisting on one God, it presents Jesus Christ as the divine Son in distinction from God the Father, and probably presents the Holy Spirit or Paraclete as a divine person distinct from both. Obvious problems admittedly attach to both claims; indeed, “person” as a Trinitarian (threeness) term has itself been controversial since Augustine, and especially in the modern period. Still, the doctrine of the trinity does lie in Scripture “in solution” (B. B. Warfield, ISBE [1929], s.v.); i.e., the NT presents events, claims, practices, and problems from which church fathers crystallized the doctrine in succeeding centuries [Dale = So they are admitting they couldn’t prove the Trinity from scripture but had to wait till the so-called church fathers to formulate it].

    Dale = How is it that all the other major doctrines of the Bible are laid out in such a way that one can clearly formulate a doctrine from it, i.e., the words of scripture (such as salvation, water baptism, the baptism in the holy Spirit, and so forth) but only the doctrine of the Trinity has to wait till the fourth century for a group of so-called church fathers to formulate it into a doctrine? If it can’t be formulated from the Bible alone (the words of scripture), how does one know if it’s even in the Bible?

    How does one not know that the so-called church fathers are wrong since they can’t prove their doctrine from the Bible alone? If God wanted us to believe in a Trinity, surely He would have laid it out in such a way we could formulate a Doctrine from it like all the other Truths. The Bible alone is sufficient for Truth. We don’t need the councils of men to formulate a doctrine that they can’t prove from the Bible! Note: while these counsels of men were going on, Christians were often under heavy persecution and were forced to flee underground. So why were these counsels of men virtually untouched by the Roman persecutions if they were not the liberal theologians of the day who were not even born-again?

    Luke 13:20-21 (NAS) – And again He said, “To what shall I compare the kingdom of God? “It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of meal, until it was all leavened.”

    Here we see a reference to the Trinity. The church (the women) took leaven (false doctrine) and hid in three pecks of meal (the Trinity), until the meal (Word of God) was all leavened!

    Furthermore, there is absolutely no mention of a Trinity in The bible, God the son, God the Holy Spirit, God is three, three in one, God died, Jesus was God, pre-incarnate Christ, and so forth.

    Israel and Moses were oneness believers – Deuteronomy 6:4 (NAS) ¶ “Hear, O Israel! The LORD (Yahweh) is our God, the LORD (Yahweh) is one!

    Jesus was a oneness believer for he said in Mark 12:29 (NAS) 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God (referring to Yahweh) is one Lord (not three)

    Paul was a oneness believer for he said in Galatians 3:20 (NAS) 20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.

    There is not one scripture that says God is three

  • http://ScripturesshowingGodisone Dale

    Scriptures that say God is one ESV (2007 edition)

    (Deu 6:4 ESV)
    4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

    (Mar 12:29 ESV)
    29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

    (Rom 3:30 ESV)
    30 since God is one–who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

    (Jam 2:19 ESV)
    19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe–and shudder!

    (Deu 4:35 ESV)
    35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD (Yahweh) is God (ELOHIM); there is no other besides him.

    (Deu 32:39 ESV)
    39 “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

    (Isa 43:10-12 ESV)
    10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
    11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
    12 I declared and saved and proclaimed, when there was no strange god among you; and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD (Yahweh) , “and I am God (El) .

    God is the savior of the world and Jesus by himself could save no one. God was the savior in JC

    (Isa 44:6, 8, 24 ESV)
    6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
    8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”
    24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

    Or we can use the KJV version (1984 edition):

    (Duet 6:4) 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD (Yahweh) our God (Elohim) is one LORD (Yahweh):

    (Mark 12:29) 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord (Kurios but refering to Yahweh) our God (theos but referig to Elohim) is one Lord (Kurios):

    (Mar 12:32 KJV) 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: Greek is God is one.

    (Rom 3:30 KJV) 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. But the Greek is actually God is one.

    (Jam 2:19 KJV)19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Again the Greek is actually God is one.

    (Gal 3:20 KJV) 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is ONE

    See also Duet 4:35; 32:39; Isa 43:10-12; 44:6, 8, 24)

    Now where are the scriptures that say these exact words: GOD IS THREE? There is none and yet the Bible says these exact words: GOD IS ONE. The Bible was written to import truth. If the Bible says God is one and no where says God is three, then you can be sure God is one and not three and all the ambiguous scriptures that you use to interpret a trinity must be interpreted in the light of these clear verses that clearly say GOD IS ONE. This is a principal of hermeneutics and if you follow it, you will avoid error. I follow the Bible that says God is one and yet the Trinitarians claim they follow the Bible when nowhere does it say God is three. I interpret all the ambiguous scriptures in light of these clear scriptures that show God is one and that there is only one God, none other and yet I’m accused of heresy! If God was a real Trinity, he knows how to say it in the Bible but instead He clearly said He was ONE. This should end all confusion! Furthermore, all the nonsense about a united one is just that: nonsense. There is nothing in the Hebrew or Greek to indicate a “united one.” This argument shows dishonesty and ignorance of the Hebrew and Greek. When God says he is ONE, He means HE is ONE, not three!

  • Dale

    Bible Proof Jesus was not worshipped as God

    1. The Jews all believed God was an invisible, infinite, omnipresent Spirit and his name was Yahweh. They knew full well that the visible man standing before them could not possible be God. This is one reason they took up stones to kill Jesus for they thought he was claiming to be God when he was a man which was blaspheme (John 10:31). If they really thought he could actually be God, do you honestly think they would try to stone him? No, they knew he was a man and therefore wanted to kill him. God can not die; He is an eternal invisible Spirit.

    The Jews erroneously thought that Jesus was claiming to God, but notice Jesus answer in John 10:31-39 –NIV:

    31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
    32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
    33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
    34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?
    35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came–and the Scripture cannot be broken–
    36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
    37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
    38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
    39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

    Jesus said he was God’s son , not God the son, and he said his Father was in him doing the miracles (V38).

    Notice the following scriptures concerning God:

    John 4:24 – God is a Spirit
    Jer 23:23-24 – God is infinite and omnipresent – Do not I fill Heaven and earth declare Yahweh
    1Ti 1:17 – God is invisible – Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
    1 Tim 6:15-16 – says no one has seen God nor can they see him
    Num 23:19 – God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
    1Ti 2:5 – For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

    From the above it should be obvious that God is invisible and cannot be seen and is not a man. Therefore it should be obvious that the man Jesus Christ was not God.

    2. The Jews were stick monotheists and only believed in one God, Yahweh Elohim, the God of the OT, who was one, and whom Jesus referred to as his father. (Deut 6:4 (NAS) – Hear, O Israel! The LORD (Yahweh) is our God, the LORD (Yahweh) is one! – which Jesus reiterated in Mark 12:29 (NAS) 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God (referring to Yahweh) is one Lord (not three). The Jews of Jesus’ day did not believe in a Trinity because they believed that God is one.

    If the Jews believed in a Trinity, they certainly would have recognized Jesus as the Second Person of the Triune God and accepted Him.

    The Scriptures, however, indicate that in the first century A.D., the Jews had no concept of a Trinity.

    For example, consider:

    Acts 19:2
    2: and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

    Paul’s question and the disciples reply clearly shows that these Jews had not been taught the doctrine of the Trinity from their youth while in their synagogue.

    Eph 2:20 says we are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

    Since they (the Apostles and prophets) are a part of the foundation, would not have God revealed such an important “foundational” truth of the Trinity to them if He was, in fact, a Trinity?

    Many Trinitarian Scholars admit that the doctrine of the trinity was not formally taught in the New Testament but was later formulated in the Counsels of Nicea and Chalcedon. See the article on the Trinity in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

    The simple apostolic teaching was that there was one God of the Old Testament and God was one. This same God dwelt in and was manifest through Christ (Acts 10:38; 2 Cor 5:19)

    Act 10:38-40 NIV
    38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
    39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree,
    40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

    2Co 5:19
    19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in (ἐν) Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

    The Apostle Paul (who saw Jesus Christ and received abundant revelations from Jesus Christ (2 Cor 12:1, 7) said God was one (Gal 3:20; Ro 3:30)

    Throughout history until the present day, the Jews have been unquestionably monotheistic and have rejected Trinitarianism. In fact, the Trinity has proved to be an additional stumbling block to the Jews in believing in Jesus.

    3. Furthermore, the OT teaches that Yahweh alone is God:

    Deu 4:35 You were shown these things so that you might know that Yahweh is God; besides him there is no other.

    Neh 9:6 You alone are Yahweh. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.

    Psa 86:10 For you are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God.

    Isa 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares Yahweh, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

    This means Jesus can’t be God later on

    Isa 44:6 “This is what Yahweh says– Israel’s King and Redeemer, Yahweh Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

    Isa 45:5-6 I am Yahweh, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,
    6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me. I am Yahweh, and there is no other.

    4. The people worship God after Christ did miracles, not Jesus. When ever anyone saw the miracles that Jesus did, they praised the one and only true God, Yahweh Elohim, who they knew was doing the miracles, not Jesus or a so-called God the son. They fully recognized that the one God was doing this, not the man Christ Jesus that stood before them. This is a very significant point for if Jesus was God and the one doing the miracle, they would have worshipped him but instead they worshipped the only God they knew, Yahweh Elohim.

    • Matt 15:29-31 – Jesus went up to a mountain side along the Sea of Galilee and great crowds came to him bringing the lame, blind, crippled, mute, and many others and Jesus healed them. The people who saw this were amazed and praised God the son, no they praised the God of Israel, which is Yahweh, for they knew that Jesus was a man and that God, the one and only God, was one actually doing the healing through Jesus. They knew that God had granted Jesus authority to pronounce healing on others but they knew it was God, Yahweh Rapha, who was doing the actual healing.

    Luk 4:36 36 All the people were amazed and said to each other, “What is this teaching? With authority and power he gives orders to evil spirits and they come out!”

    • When Jesus healed the paralytic in Mark 2:3-12, he said in verse five: “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Some of the teachers of the law accused Jesus of blasphemy for they said who can forgive sins but God alone. But Jesus knew in his spirit what they were thinking and said: So you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins, he told the paralytic to get up and take his mat and go home, and he was instantly healed. The incident amazed every one and they praised God saying: “We have never seen anything like this.” Notice they didn’t praise God the son or think of Jesus as any other than a man. If Jesus was God, he wouldn’t need authority from another God to forgive sins for God forgives all sins (2 Chronicles 7:14). Also we see in 1 Pe 2:1 that Jesus speaks to the father is our defense, that is, he mediates us to the father so that the God (the father) will forgive us of our sins (v9). Why does Jesus need to defend us to the father and intercede for us? If he was God, he could defend us and forgive us himself.

    Concerning the healing of the paralytic, Matt 9:8, LK 5:26, says that when the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men (anthropos). Lk 5:26 says: Everyone was amazed and gave praise to God. They were filled with awe and said, “We have seen remarkable things today.”

    They knew Jesus was not God but yet they saw and heard Jesus speak healing to the paralytic and therefore they concluded God had given him authority because God was backing him up. So they praised God the son! No, they praise the only God they knew: Yahweh Elohim, the same one God that dwelt in and manifested himself through Christ whom Jesus said was his heavenly father.

    • When Jesus raised the widow’s son at a town called Nain (LK 7:11-17), the crowed responded in verse 16: They were all filled with awe and praised God. “A great prophet has appeared among us,” they said. “God has come to help his people.” Jesus was called Emanuel, meaning God with us. They recognized God had come to them in their prophet, Jesus Christ. They did not call him God or God the son.

    • (LK 9:37-45) When Jesus healed the demoniac son (so-called) when they came down from the mount of transfiguration, it say in verse 43: “And they were all amazed at the greatness of God.”

    • LK 13:10-13. When the crippled women who had been bound by demons for 18 years was healed by Jesus, she immediately straightened up and praised God.

    • After Jesus healed the 10 lepers, one of them came back, praising God in a loud voice “and he fell on his face at His feet, giving thanks to Him (Jesus).” And he was a Samaritan (LK 17:15-16 – NAS).

    • After Jesus was resurrected and Raptured to Heaven, the apostles did mighty miracles of healing but no one claimed them to be God no more than people claimed Jesus to be God. When Peter healed the cripple beggar in Acts chapter 3, he was arrested and brought before the Sanhedrin, and they asked him by what power or name did you do this (V 7)?

    They knew he was a man even though God flowed though him in miracle healing, and the people praised God, not Peter. God flowing through us doesn’t make us any more God than it did Christ.

    • Whenever Jesus did any mighty miracle, nowhere do we see the people worship and praise God the son, rather they always praise Yahweh Elohim, the one and only God for God is one, not three.

    • Mark 3:16 — at another time when Jesus was in the synagogue, he healed a man with a shriveled hand but some of the hard hearted Jews (Pharisees) were watching him to see if he would heal the man on the Sabbath day. Jesus looked about them in anger and said: “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” Then he told the man to stretch out his hand and it was instantly restored. The Pharisees then went out to plot with the Herodians on how they might kill Jesus. LK 6:11 says they were furious.

    They would never attempt this if the Jews had any type of a concept that Jesus was anything other than a man such as God or God the son. It is untenable that they would even think they could kill God or God the son. The fact that they plotted to kill him proves they believed he was only a man and not what he claimed to be, that is, the son of God

    • Matthew 21:23-27 – While Jesus was teaching in the Temple courts, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him and asked by what authority he was doing these things (referring to his teaching and miracles of healing that he did –v14), and who gave you this authority, they asked.

    If he were God the son or God in any sense, they would know by what authority Jesus was doing these things. But they saw Jesus as a man (highly anointed of God), claiming he was the son of God, sent by his father to be the Messiah, which the Jewish leaders did not believe. They saw him as just the son of Joseph and Mary, not the son of God

    But notice Jesus’ answer in verses 24-27:

    24 Jesus replied, “I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things.
    25 John’s baptism–where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?” They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’
    26 But if we say, ‘From men’–we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet.”
    27 So they answered Jesus, “We don’t know.” Then he said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.

    In other words, Jesus authority came from God just like John the Baptist’s authority came from God. John was sent by God into the Ministry but this didn’t make him God anymore than Jesus who was also sent by God into the Ministry and given authority by God. Jesus was claiming that God gave him this authority not that he was God or God the son.

    • Matthew 21:4-21 – During Jesus triumphal entry into Jerusalem, the crowds responded by shouting: hosanna to the son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord (referring to Yahweh). Hosanna in the highest! (parallel = Mk 11:7-10)

    Verse 10 – when Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred and ask: “who is this?”

    Verse 11 — the crowds answer: “This is Jesus, the prophet of Nazareth in Galilee.”

    None of them said this is Jesus, God the son, but Jesus the son of David, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee. Notice that they shouted “hosanna in the highest.”

    Hosanna = an exclamation of praise that literally means save now, which proves the name of the Lord is Yahweh. They were praising God, the only one God they knew, Yahweh Elohim, who is one. If Jesus were God, they would be praising him, but they recognize Jesus was not God but only God’s son.

    In verses 4-5, we see Jesus is referred to as their King and the triumphal entry was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah 62:1, Pas 118:25-26, and Zechariah 9:9, where Jesus is called both their King and Savior.

    Psa 118:25-26 25 O Yahweh, save us; O Yahweh, grant us success.
    26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of Yahweh. From the house of Yahweh we bless you.

    • Mark 5:21-34 — we see that Jesus healed the woman who had internal bleeding and tried to get to Jesus but couldn’t because of the crowd so she crawled on her hands and knees and touch the hem of Jesus’ garment. But Jesus didn’t know who touched him and yet he realized healing from God flowed through him so he asked: “Who touched me?” If he were God the son, he would have known who touched him.

    • John 10:33 says the Unbelieving Jews were ready to stone Jesus for they thought he was claiming to be God in John 10:33. This was their false perception for Jesus never claimed this. In fact he refuted this by saying:

    Joh 10:34-38 (NIV) 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?
    35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came–and the Scripture cannot be broken–
    36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
    37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
    38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

    The Jews saw the man Christ Jesus, and they knew he couldn’t possible be God for God was an infinite, omnipresent, invisible Spirit. They had no concept of a “God the Son’ or Trinity. But they thought Jesus was claiming to be God but Jesus said even the scriptures call you Elohim (Psa 82:6 6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’)
    The scripture calls us Elohim and sons of the most high, that is, we represent the Most High God. Jesus said he was the son of God, not God the son

    These are very strong evidences to prove Jesus was not God but a full human being (with a body, soul, and human spirit) and that he was indeed the Messiah to come, the son of God.

    5. The meaning of the word worship in the NT:

    Note: There are a few places in the gospel where Jesus is said to be worshipped (Lk 24:52; Matt14:33; 28:19; John 9:38) But Jesus was never worshipped as God or in the same way as they worship God. The Greek word in every case is = proskuneo {pros-koo-neh’-o} 4352, which has a wide variety of meaning.

    Strong’s defines = 1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence, showing respect 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication 3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank 3a1) to the Jewish high priests 3a2) to God 3a3) to Christ 3a4) to heavenly beings 3a5) to demons

    So it means to show reverence or homage or obeisance or honor or respect and is translated that way by some translations:

    Mat 14:33 (MIT) Those in the boat bowed to him reverently and said, “You are truly God’s son!”

    Luke 24:52 (DBY) And *they*, having done him homage, returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

    Joh 9:38 (MIT) He said, “I believe, Lord,” and he assumed a posture of deep reverence before him. NW = And he did obeisance to him.

    Matthew 28:9) Mary Magdalena and another Mary greeted him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him, meaning they showed him great honor and respect

    Jesus has been made our Lord, so of course we will give him reverence, obeisance, and homage and great honor for he is our King, our savior, our master, and the one who gave his soul for us, but we will give our spiritual worship to God alone. In Heaven we will not worship Jesus as a glorified son of God for we will also be glorified sons of God.

    John 4:24 and Philippians 3:3 say: we worship God in spirit, and it is only God that deserves our spiritual worship for he is the father of spirits (Hebrews 12:9)

    This is not depreciating Christ for he was the only pure man ever born of woman, and he was totally surrendered to God his heavenly father, and he obeyed him in all things. And in the New Jerusalem, although God will be the light, Jesus will be the lamp that God shines through. He will still be God’s contact man, God’s representative, the visible manifestation of God when God wants to manifest himself and speak.

    We will never see God in heaven except in Jesus and in one another. But we shall freely experience him in our spirit way much more than we do here, in a very full measure as God intended when he created man. We will fully satisfy God as we couldn’t do if we were created perfectly and could not sin.

    Jesus was never worship like they worship God. The open hearted knew Jesus was the Messiah, the literal son of God and that God was dwelling in him and doing mighty miracles in him. Yes they would do great obeisance to Jesus when God flowed through him to heal them. They were very thankful to Jesus for allowing God to flow through him in such fantastic miracles and healing such of which they have never seen or heard before.

    6. Isreal was quite aware of God flowing through men and doing fantastic miracles. They all knew of how God used and flowed through Moses, Elijah, Elisha, and others and now they saw Christ, another man, in which God flowed in unprecedented ways, so-much-so, it was as though he were God to the people for everything he said and did, Yahweh Elohim backed up his words and actions because Jesus did everything that his father told him to do. He faithfully obeyed the Spirit of his heaven father that dwelt in him (John 14:10), leading and guiding him and telling him what to do (John 5:30). So Israel worshipped God when they saw the miracles of Christ (not Jesus) for they knew where the miracles came from. They knew it did not come from Christ but from the invisible omnipresent Spirit of Yahweh Elohim who dwelt in Chris tand was manifested in Christ.

    7. We are called to follow in the foot steps of Jesus and become like Jesus Christ but this would be totally impossible if he were God.

    Jesus commanded us to be perfect like his heaven father in Heaven

    (Mat 5:48 NIV) Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Many OT saints walked with God and achieved a good measure of righteousness before God without having Christ or the NC promises; how much more can we walk in holiness now under the NC of grace brought by Jesus Christ? (Heb 9:14)

    But how can we; we are not God? If Jesus was perfect because he was God, then he can’t be our example to follow, neither can we be perfected!

    Jesus Christ was made perfect and because of his perfection, he was able to make a way for us to be perfected by his sinless sacrifice on the cross for our sins and by his example that he gave us to follow. Also Jesus is now glorified and sits on the right hand of God, highly exalted, and now intercedes for us to the Father that we maybe all that God intended us to be.

    Christ was perfected:

    Jesus grew in favor with God and man (Luke 2:52). If Jesus was God why does he need to grow in favor with God? Did he grow in favor with himself? Did God the son grow in favor with God the Father, if so, how is he coequal?

    Jesus learned obedience from the things he suffered (Heb 5:8). This does not mean he was ever disobedient but his relationship with his father become stronger and deeper as he obeyed and did the will of his father each day. Jesus said my meat was to do the will of my father and to finish his work (john 4:34-KJV). Jesus often went without food and sleep in order to do God’s will and to pray. He would often get up early and pray and then minister to the people all day long till he was very tired. He suffered horrible in the garden of Gethsemane and in his crucifixion but said not my will but thy will be done! His love for God grew each step of obedience in doing God’s will every single day. None of this makes any sense if he was God! How can the almighty God suffer in any way? Did he learn obedience to himself?

    Jesus was faithful to the one who appointed him (Heb 3:1). Was God faithful to himself? Who appointed Jesus, was it not God the father who sent him into the ministery (john 5:36)? Jesus finished the works that his father gave him to do and on the cross he said, it is finished.

    Jesus became perfected (Heb 7:28). God is already perfect! Jesus’ life of obedience and love for Yahweh brought him to a state of perfection by end of his life. He was worthy to be our sin sacrifice as the spotless Lamb of God, and he gave his soul for us on the cross, dying for our sins that we may be forgiven as we repent and live for God.

    The saints are perfected in Christ:

    Now because Jesus was made perfect, he made a way for us to come in the presence of God by his sacrifice of Calvary (his righteousness being legally imputed to us by God till we can come into experiential righteous and holiness by living and walking in God’s Spirit). Now we too can become perfect by God’s grace as we live like Jesus lived and love God like Jesus loved God and obey God and Jesus in everything for God has made this same Jesus our lord and Christ [anointed one] (Acts 2:36). God has highly exalted Christ and given him a name above every name (Acts 2:33; 5:31; Phil 2:9; Heb 7:26) and has put him over God’s church to rule and reign under God (Mat 16:18; Eph 5:23; Col 1:18; Heb 1:1-8 (Note: the correct reading of verse 8 is “Your throne is God,” meaning Jesus has been given authority by God to rule over His church. The son is sitting on the authority of God as though God were the throne (a metonymy). In Revelation chapters 2-3 we see the glorified Christ ruling over his churches).

    Just some scriptures to illustrate this point:

    (Mat 19:21 NIV)
    21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

    (Rom 15:5 NIV)
    5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus,

    (1Co 11:1 NIV)
    Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

    (1Pe 2:21 NIV)
    21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

    (Heb 2:10-2 NIV)
    10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
    11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
    12 He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”
    13 And again, “I will put my trust in him.” And again he says, “Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
    14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death–that is, the devil–
    15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
    16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
    17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
    18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

    (Heb 5:7-10 NIV)
    7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
    8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
    9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
    10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

    (Heb 10:14-22 NIV)
    14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
    15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
    16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
    17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
    18 And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.
    19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,
    20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body,
    21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
    22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

    (Heb 12:2 NIV)
    2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    (Jud 1:24 KJV)
    24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

    (Phi 2:12-13 KJV)
    12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    Paul said in Phil 3:10-15:

    (Phi 3:10-15 NIV)
    10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
    11 and so, somehow, to attain to the out resurrection from among the dead.
    12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
    13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
    (Phi 3:14 NAS) I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
    .
    15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.

    Paul was indeed already saved but was pressing on for something greater: to know Christ and the fellowship of his suffering to attain a greater resurrection than what others will receive.

  • Dale

    Jesus was not worshiped as God

    But how do I know that they did not worship Jesus as God?

    1. As I already pointed out that when Jesus did mighty miracles, the people worshipped and praised God, not Jesus Christ. The only God the Jews knew was Yahweh Elohim, and they knew He was an invisible Spirit that filled heaven and earth

    2. The Jews were stick monotheists and worshipped only one God. The Jews knew that God was an invisible spirit that filled heaven and earth and so they knew very well that the man standing before them, Jesus Christ, couldn’t possibly be God. This was why the Jews picked up stones to try to kill Christ because they thought he was claiming to be God when they knew he couldn’t be God, and it was blasphemous to them

    3. The penalty for blaspheme was stoning to death. It is very unlikely any Jew would worship Jesus as God for they knew it would mean stoning by the Jewish leaders. Furthermore there would be no reason to do so. The Jews fully recognized that it was Yahweh Elohim that was doing the miracles and mighty deeds, not the man Christ Jesus. They knew God had come back to them in their Messiah King.

    4. Furthermore this is the testimony of Jesus himself who always gave God the glory and was a stick monotheistic Jew.

    Jesus clearly said he could do nothing of himself (john 8:28 KJV) and that it was the father (meaning Yahweh Elohim) that dwelt within that did the works (John 14:10 KJV). Jesus said that he worked with his father (John 5:17), and God used Jesus to reconcile the men unto himself (Eph 2:16; 2 Cor 5:17). Jesus said his purpose was to do the will of his father (John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38), and he always did what pleased Him (John 8:29; Rom 15:1-3). Jesus said he did what the father showed him to do (John 5:19), and that God gave him authority to do the things he did (John 5:20-22). It was his father that dwelt in him that was doing the works (John 10:38). This means that whatever Jesus said or did, God backed him up. When Jesus said to the paralytic: sons thy sins be forgiven, he was not contradicting scripture that says that only God can forgive sins (Mark 2:7). Instead, God gave Jesus authority to forgive sins (Luke 5:24-25 KJV– 24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power (authority) upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. 25 And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. Noticed the man glorified God, Yahweh Elohim, not the man Christ Jesus. God revealed to Jesus that the paralytic was asking God to forgive him of his sins more than physical healing, and it was God’s will to forgive him, so Jesus said: son be of good cheer, thy sins be forgiven thee. God not only forgave him but healed him physically. Jesus being the mouth piece for God, spoke what God had determined: your sins are forgiven. When Jesus saw his disciples on the lake being tossed about because of the storm while he stayed on land to pray to God, God told him go out to them on the water. Jesus immediately obeyed and started walking, but it was God, Yahweh Elohim, that was enabling him to walk on the water. Every miracle and healing Jesus did was not by his own power but by the power of almighty God, his heavenly father, Yahweh Elohim, the only God that the Jews knew of. God gave Jesus authority to act as his spokesmen, his representative on earth to men. Jesus knew God’s heart, mind, will, and purpose for he was one with his heavenly father (John 10:31). God dwelt in Christ (2 Cor 5:18) so that Jesus was the body God manifested himself through. At times, God manifested himself and spoke directly through Christ such as in (Joh 2:19 KJV)19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Gal 1:1 shows God the father raised him from the dead, so God was speaking directly through him. Other times God put upon Jesus heart and mind what to do and Jesus, knowing God’s heart and mind did God’s will by faith. Jesus only taught what his heavenly father gave him to teach for God was leading and guiding Jesus to do his will. Jesus said he always did the will of his heaven father and did those things that pleased him (Joh 14:10 KJV)

    Much more can be said to show that it was God the father, Yahweh Elohim that was doing the works through Christ, and Christ was God’s human vessel that he choice to dwell in and manifest himself through. God did come back to his people in the person and body of Jesus Christ. If you can believe this, then you do not need any Trinity. Why do you need a Trinity to understand that there was one God, Yahweh Elohim and one literal son of God who was sinless and always obeyed his heavenly father and did his will? This same perfect son was willing to take our place in the lake of fire for ever so that we might be saved for he was willing to do God’s will (Mat 26:39 KJV) 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. Jesus greatly feared being separated from his father forever and ever, but God heard him and answered him (Heb 5:7). Yet Jesus was not delivered from death so it had to be from eternal death which he was willing to do so we can be forgiven of our sins. Jesus was the perfect lamb of God that was sacrificed to God for the forgiveness of our sins This is why Jesus said his soul was exceedingly sorrowful unto death as he prayed in the garden of Gethsemane (Mat 26:38). Jesus wasn’t afraid of the torture on the cross! He was afraid of losing the relationship and love he had with God all those years. God counted his decision good enough and resurrected Jesus and highly exalted him, placing him over God’s entire church (Ph 2:9; Acts 2:38; Eph 5:23). After what Jesus did for you, there is no excuse of not giving your lives totally to him and living for him to the full! It doesn’t matter how sick you are, how poor you are, what troubles you are going through, Jesus demands your obedience, your love, and your reverence. He made a way that we can come back to God and fellowship with God and love God and serve God that way that he did (Heb 10:14-22) through the born again experience and the baptism of the Holy Spirit so we can walk in the Spirit and do only the things that pleases God the way Christ did.

    5. The Jews had no concept of a trinity. They only knew of one God, Yahweh Elohim who was also the mighty El. There is no reason to believe they would believe Jesus was God as it contradicted everything they believed about God. They knew God was not a man nor the son of man that he should lie (number 23:19). When the Holy Spirit ascended on Christ at his water baptism and the Jews who witnessed it knew that it was a manifestation of God just like they had seen and heard about in the OT. They knew God was an invisible Spirit and that the dove could not be God himself but a manifestation of God. God was showing them that He was anointing His son with His holy Spirit. God is a Spirit and he is holy; hence, Holy Spirit. Even with the Thoephanic manifestations of the angle of Yahweh it the OT, they knew that God was an invisible spirit, and the angle of Yahweh was a manifestation of God.

    Once the Jews returned from the Babylon captivity, never again did they ever fall into Polytheism. They were stick monotheists that believed in one God and that God was one. Even today the Jews reject the Trinity for they believe it is polytheism. No Jew at the time of Christ would ever believe in anything that suggests polytheism which the Jews today believe the Trinity does. This is a strong case for the Oneness of the Jews.
    Consider the following OT scriptures:

    (1Ki 8:27 KJV) 27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
    Solomon knew God was in infinite invisible Spirit that filled heaven and earth.

    (Jer 23:23-24 KJV) 23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? 24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

    (Psa 51:11 KJV) 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

    David was possibly filled with the Holy Spirit and communed with God like NC saints in the Tabernacle of David.

    Even with the thoephanic manifestations of Yahweh in the OT as the angle of Yahweh, the OT saints knew these were manifestations of the invisible Spirit of God and not all there was of God.

    The Jews knew God was an invisible Spirit that was omnipresent and non-diminished. So when Jesus was sent by God into the ministry and did the fantastic miracles he did as though he were God himself (Phil 2:6), they knew full well that the man standing before them was not God, but that God had given this man authority to do the things he was doing and that it was God that was actually doing the miracles. This is why they praised God, Yahweh Elohim, and not Jesus Christ. They knew full well Jesus was a man, a prophet sent by God, their long awaited Messiah spoken of by the prophets. None of the prophecies spoken about Christ said that he would be God or God the son.

    CORRECTION to Acts 19:2: I would not use this as proof that they never heard of the Trinity for it is not needed. There is nothing to indicate that the Jews were taught a Trinity and everything I said above proves the contrary.

    I now believe Acts 19:2 is probably an abbreviated statement that is very common in scripture, meaning they did not know that there was a Holy Spirit being given out to believers. They had already been taught from OT scriptures that God was a Holy Spirit so they can’t mean they never heard of God being a Holy Spirit. At least this is my understanding till proven different. I will redo my above treatise.

  • Wanda

    Voltaire, a French philosopher and unbeliever, actually declared a reality in one of his sarcastic quotes: ‘God created man in His image, and man returned the compliment.’
    I am afraid mankind is returning the compliment; may we Christians not partake.

  • Dale

    Summary thoughts:

    1. When Jesus asked his disciples who do men say I the son of man am in Matt 16:13-20 KJV, they answered: “Some say you are John the Baptist, some Elias (Elijah) and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” Not one said he was God the son. Jesus then asked his disciples: “Whom do you say I am?”

    Thomas immediately jumped up and said: “Why, you’re God the son, second person of the Trinity; everyone knows that!” No, Thomas did not receive the revelation of who Jesus was, neither was he calling Jesus God in John 20:28 as a divine revelation. Instead, God revealed to PETER who Jesus was: “And Simon Peter answered and said, ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God’” (Mat 16:16 KJV). Notice he did not say you are God the son or God but the son of God, the Christ (which means anointed one). He was saying Jesus was the literal son of God, the Messiah to come, Christ, the anointed one (anointed by someone greater, that is, by God himself, Yahweh Elohim). Jesus said he was blessed for this revelation because it came from God Himself. If Jesus was God or God the son, surely God would have revealed this to Peter since the purpose of the revelation was to REVEAL WHO CHRIST WAS. Furthermore, God the son doesn’t need God the Father to reveal to Peter who he was. He could just reveal that himself to Peter! This is powerful proof Jesus was not God or God the son or that the Jews believed in any kind of a Trinity! If Jesus was truly God or God the son, then God the father would have revealed that to Peter, but he did not!

    In John 20:28, God was NOT revealing to Thomas who Jesus was. He had already done that with Peter, so there was no need to give the revelation again. The revelation Peter gave was Christ was the son of God, not God the son.

    “My Lord and My God.” You cannot tell from the Greek word “and” if John was relating to us that Thomas made 2 statements: one, “My Lord” and the other statement, “My God” OR that Thomas said “My Lord and “my God” all in breath. In either case, the context and internal evidence show that Thomas was making 2 statements; one address to Jesus and the other addressed to God, Yahweh Elohim. These are two abbreviated statements (Common in the Bible) that are not complete. First Thomas addressed Jesus and said “My Lord (that is, my master)” and then he addressed the invisible Spirit of God and said “My God” (not in vain, but in utter astonishment). He could have said, first to Jesus: “My Lord, it’s really you, you have been risen from the dead just like you said” and then in the same breath or with a pause said to Yahweh: “My God, it is true, you did raise Jesus from the dead.”

    Thomas was probably looking at Jesus when he made both statements but where was Thomas to look when he made the statement concerning God since God was an invisible Spirit? It doesn’t matter if he was looking at Jesus when he made this statement because he was still referring to the invisible Spirit of God. If fact, because the invisible Spirit of God was dwelling in Christ and manifesting Himself through Christ, it would be quite natural to look at Jesus when he made both statements. Jesus was the focal point. God’s anointing was on Christ for his ministry. Christ was the representation and mouth piece of God that God chose to speak through and manifest Himself through. So why would he not be looking at Christ when he made the statement that was in reference to God?

    The context proves that the main revelation was JESUS BEING RASIED FROM THE DEAD, not a so-called divine revelation of Thomas. God does not give divine revelations to those who are doubting him and do not believe the testimony of the others concerning Christ’s resurrection as Thomas did. God gives divine revelation to the faithful believers such as Peter and later to the Apostle Paul. Doubting Thomas was about to lose his salvation if he did not repent of unbelief for one of the requirements of salvation is to believe in the literal resurrection of Jesus from the dead (Rom 10:9). Thomas was amazed and literally shocked out of his unbelief when Christ appeared to him and showed Thomas his side and hands to which Thomas felt. He was amazed, astonished, shocked out of his unbelief and literally beside himself for Jesus not only appeared thru locked doors but reveled to Thomas his statement of unbelief said earlier behind closed doors and had Thomas feel his wounds. After Thomas felt Jesus wounds, he knew he was not dreaming, and God had actually raised Jesus from the dead and therefore in great exclamation with great emotion of astonishment said: “My Lord” and he also said “My God.”

    The vast majority of translations translate this as an exclamation, not as an address of divine revelation as many falsely claim. In fact, I only found a few translations out of dozens of translations that translate this without an exclamation point, such as KJV, Young’s, Darby, and few others. A few examples of the more well known translations who translate this properly as an exclamation are: HCSB (Holman Christian Standard Bible- 2004), BBE (Bible in Basic English- 1949/64), NAB (New American Bible-1991), (NASB) (New American Standard Bible-1971), NASU (New American Standard Update-1995), NIV (New International Version-1984), NKJV (new King James Version- 1982), (NLT) New Living Translations, both the early and later version-1996/2004 ), RH (Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible-1959 ), NW (New World- 1970), Berkeley- 1969, C L (Concordant Literal-1976), RSV (Revised Standard Version- 1952), and NRSV (New Revised Standard Version-1989) and a host of others.

    The Greek here is the nominative of exclamation (according to Danna and Mantey in their book A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament) not the nominative being used for a vocative as ATR Robertson (a Trinitarian) falsely claims. Thomas was a strict monotheistic Jew and like Christ believed that there was one God and that God was one (Duet 6:4). He knew God was an invisible Spirit that filled Heaven and earth (1 Kings 8:27 KJV; Jer 23:23-24 KJV; Psa 51:11 KJV), so he knew the man standing before him, howbeit resurrected, couldn’t possibly be God. The Bible teaches that Yahweh Elohim alone was God (Duet 4:35 NIV; Neh 9:6 NIV; Psa 86:10 NIV; Isa 43:10 NIV; 44:6 NIV; 45:5-6 NIV) and this is what the Jews believed for whenever Christ did any miracle, the people praised and worshipped Yahweh Elohim and not Jesus, even though at times they showed him great reverence.

    Jesus called Yahweh Elohim his father (john 14:28) and said that He dwelt in him and was the one doing the works through him (John 14:10)

    Notice the conclusion of John in John 20:31:

    (John 20:31KJV) But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    If the main revelation was Thomas’ so-called revelation that Jesus was God, then why didn’t John state that in his conclusion? Instead he stated that Jesus was the SON OF GOD, the same thing Jesus said about himself over and over again. In fact nowhere did Jesus ever call himself God. In fact, nowhere did anyone ever call Jesus God or God the son!

    Much more can be said but the conclusion is Thomas was not calling Jesus God as many falsely claim.

    2. Jesus always referred to himself as the son of God or the son of man. Never did he call himself God or God the son, nor did any of the Jews refer to him as God.

    3. Not one Old Testament prophecy concerning the Messiah says he was God or God the son. There are several prophecies that show Jesus would appear to be taking on attributes of Yahweh as a figure of speech and metonymies (in which one word stands in for another word like the word “the brass” refers to “military officers) because Yahweh would indwell in him and manifest himself through him but not one Old Testament scroll says he would be God or a so-called God the son. For example; In Isaiah 7:14 says a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Yet we have no record of anyone calling him that. God (Yahweh Elohim) had come back to his own people in the visible representation and purpose and person of Jesus because when they saw the miracles, love, teaching, and power of God through Christ, the open hearted knew that God had come back to them in their Messiah, who was the visible representation and mouth piece of the invisible God, the body and soul that God decide to dwell in and manifest himself through. The same can be said of Isaiah 9:6; 35:4-6; and so forth.

    (Act 3:22 KJV) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

    God raised up Jesus like unto Moses, a humble man sold out to God. If he were God the son, in what way was he like unto Moses who was a humble human being?

    4. The Jews were accustom to God manifesting himself through men as seen in Elijah, Samson, Elisha, Moses, Solomon, and others, and they believed their Messiah would do the same.
    (Joh 7:31 KJV) And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done? Greek is this one. They knew the Messiah would be a man, their prophet, King, prince, and would have authority from God and be anointed by God to do mighty miracles. Jesus is called the Christ, the anointed one. God anointed Jesus above his fellows (Heb 1:9)

    (Act 10:38-43 KJV)
    38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
    39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
    40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
    41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
    42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
    43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    5. One of the major problems has to be the KJV Bible which is an average translation. Unfortunately the King James Bible translated several passages according to their theology of a Trinity and not according to the Greek. There are several poorly translated verses on the God essence that if you consult literal translations, you find out are incorrectly translated. But unfortunately it was not just the KJV but other translations did the same. An example would be the NAS, normally a literal translation. The original 1971 translation correctly translated the Greek word “ev” as “IN” in Col 1:16: “for IN him were all things created,” not “by.” But because this sounded too oneness, later editions change this to “BY” to get a Christ as creator doctrine. But the Greek does not say “BY’ but “IN” (that is, because of him or for the sake of him or on account of him or such similar idea).

    Also the KJ translators added passages that are not even in the Greek Bible called Interpolations. An example is 1 John 5:7 which is not in the Greek Bible. Also there is sufficient evidence now to show that Matt 28:19 is not in the Greek. The Greek just says: Go, make disciples of all the nations in my name. There are probably other Interpolations and how much, we really don’t know but they center around the God essence issue.
    If one has a willing heart to follow the Bible no matter what it says and diligently seeks God in prayer to show him the truth and carefully studies the Word of God like the Bereans, relying on the Bible scholars who have gone before you (a lot of information you can get from the Internet and blogs like this), he will come into the truth about the God essence. The problem is many are stubborn and have already made up their mind that there is a Trinity and won’t allow anyone to tell them anything different. God can’t show them the truth for they are unwilling.

    But if one would carefully study these scriptures and the context, looking at the Greek and the Greek scholars as to what the Greek says, at the context, looking at other literal translations (such as emphasized Bible by Joseph Rotherham, Concordant literal, NAS in spots, Numeric, Berkeley, and even the NIV in many spots), looking at figures of speech, customs, and carefully comparing them to clear parallel verses on the subject, there is no way he could ever get these verses to refer to a Trinity. There are too many clear verses in the Bible to interpret these unclear verses as referring to a Trinity. If one would interpret these ambiguous scriptures according to the clears scriptures I gave above, he would come to the logical conclusion they cannot refer to a so-called Trinity and refer to something else. The principal of Hermeneutics say to never form a doctrine from an ambiguous difficult enigmatic lone passage of scripture but always form your doctrine from clear scripture. One should always interpret the vague difficult enigmatic scriptures in the light of the clear ones. Most will need the help of the oneness teachers and scholars. Jesus has raised up and put teachers of the Word of God over His church to teach them so they can know the Word of God and come into perfection and without them, you’re probably not going to get the answers you are looking for (Eph 4:11-15). God will show you some things, but He ordained teachers to teach His people the Word of God.

    Christ has been given authority over God‘s church and he is presently ruling over it by God’s power and Holy Spirit as we see in the book of Revelation chapters 2-3. It is God through Christ who is ruling over His church.

    6. Scriptures that say God is one from the KJV:

    •(Duet 6:4KJV ) Hear, O Israel: The LORD (Yahweh) our God (Elohim) is one LORD (Yahweh):
    •(Mark 12:29 KJV ) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord (Kurios but referring to Yahweh) our God (Theos but referring to Elohim) is one Lord (Kurios):
    •(Mar 12:32 KJV) And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: Greek is God is one.
    •(Rom 3:30 KJV) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. But the Greek is actually God is one.
    •(Jam 2:19 KJV) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Again the Greek is actually God is one.
    •(Gal 3:20 KJV) Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is ONE
    •Duet 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD (Yahweh) he is God (Elohim); there is none else beside him.

    This verse is clearly showing that Yahweh is Elohim, which Jesus called his Father. Also this verse clearly shows there is NONE Else, meaning only Yahweh is God not Jesus or a so-called God the Holy Spirit! There is only one god, not three gods.
    •(Isa 43:10-12 KJV)
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (Yahweh) , and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
    11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
    12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God (EL).
    •(Isa 44:6-8 KJV)
    6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
    8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
    24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself.

    Yahweh said there is no god beside him and that HE alone made the heavens and earth. Therefore Col 1:16 cannot be used to say Christ created the heavens and earth, especially when the Greek does not say BY but IN.

    Now where are the scriptures that say these exact words: GOD IS THREE? There is none and yet the Bible says these exact words: GOD IS ONE. The Bible was written to impart truth. If the Bible says God is one and no where says God is three, then you can be sure God is one and not three and all the ambiguous scriptures that you use to interpret a trinity must be interpreted in the light of these clear verses that clearly say GOD IS ONE. I interpret all the ambiguous scriptures in light of these clear scriptures that show God is one and that there is only one God and none other. If God was a real Trinity, he knows how to say it in the Bible but instead He clearly said He was ONE. This should end all confusion! Furthermore, there is nothing in the Hebrew or Greek to indicate a “united one.” This argument shows dishonesty and ignorance of the Hebrew and Greek. When God says he is ONE, He means HE is ONE, not three!

    7. Some very brief answers to some difficult scriptures that will enable you to look at them in a new way and get you started on studying them more to find what they mean.

    Gen 1:26 – Let us make man… “Us” is Elohim which is plural in form but singular in number and used with singular verbs and pronouns, a figure of speech that is often used in the Bible. “Us” refers to God and Jesus Christ working together to bring man back into the image of God. Christ was made into the image of God and so he worked with God to make (Hebrew Asah) man into the image of God. This is a prophetic anticipation of what God would do in the future. At the very beginning, God is letting us know his intentions toward man, not just to create man (Bara) but to make (Asah) man into the image and likeness of God. Notice God said he wanted to make (Asah) man into his image and likeness but instead God created (bara) man in his image (27). But notice man is one person not three, and yet he is supposedly in the image of the Trinity!

    Isa 7:14 KJV– call his name Immanuel. No one is recorded calling Jesus by this name. When they saw the love, power, and miracles of God that flowed through Jesus, they knew that God had come back to them through their Messiah.

    Philip said in John 14: 9-11KJV
    8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus answered :
    9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
    10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
    11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

    In other words, if you have seen the love of God coming from Christ, heard his teaching, and seen the mighty miracles he has done, then you have seen the father for the father (Yahweh) dwelt in Christ and was manifested through him. Jesus clearly showed us here that it was the Father (Yahweh) who dwelt within him that was doing the works and miracles and giving the words to teach.

    Isa 9:6 – These are figures of speech, metonymies (in which one word stands in for another word like the word the “brass” refers to “military officers”). Jesus would manifest what these titles imply (because God was in him and working thru him), and therefore Christ would act as though these were his actual names.

    Note: Jesus was in constant communion with God all the time he was growing up. He knew he was different than others as the second Adam (1 Cor 14:45) and yet a full human being (that is, had a human body, human soul, and human spirit). He saw himself being written about in the scriptures and God taught him as well. He lived by faith to fulfill each one of these scriptures by God’s power and help.

    Jesus (as the second and last Adam) was like the first Adam before he sinned. He had no fallen nature or tendency to sin. He had no conscience to direct him but went by direct revelation and input from God. He had to walk by faith and be obedient to God like everyone else does. He spent his time communing with God and getting to know him until he was ready to be sent forth into the ministry. The scripture say Jesus grew in favor with God and man (Luke 2:52) and learned obedience from the things he suffered (Heb 5:8)

    He was baptized in the Holy Spirit at his water baptism and was sent into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil himself for 40 days and nights (Mark 1:10-13). After he was proven to be faithful, God dwelt in him to the full (Col 2:9), and he became the Messiah to the Jews.

    Jesus could have sinned or use the power of God within to overcome temptation and gain riches, power, and popularity; but he was a faithful servant and gave all the glory to God (Phil 2:5-11). He used God’s power within only for others, not for himself. He suffered more, was tempted more, and went thru more than any other human being that ever lived, so he had no real advantage over us when you consider everything else.

    He also suffered horribly in deciding to go to the lake of fire for everyone else in order that they may be saved (Matt 26:39). No one has ever made such a decision. Yes, he had advantages over us but he went through more than any other human being. Jesus allowed God to perfect him, and God highly exalted him so that he became the author of our salvation.

    Now God is calling us to become like Christ by becoming Born-Again and filled with His Spirit and walking in the Spirit till we become experientially righteous and perfected too.

    Mic 5:2 – whose going forth have been from old, from everlasting. The KJ scholars translated “everlasting” in order to agree with their theology that Jesus was God. The true sense of the clause is as the NIV: “whose origins are from of old, form ancient times.”

    Zac 12:10 Eastern Masoretic text says: They shall look unto HIM whom they have pierced, the preferred reading

    John 1:1 Greek = in the beginning was the logos, and the logos was toward the God, and the logos was God (no article) (each word has significance to the interpretation of this verse and would take many pages to explain). If God wanted the Word to mean Christ, he would have used the Greek word Christos but instead he used the Greek Word Logos. The logos does not mean Christ. The logos is a figure of speech, a device God use to help explain how and why he created everything. It represents both the inward thought and out expression of that thought. That is, God expressed himself by means of his logos and created the heavens and earth. Later God expressed himself again by means of his logos and brought forth Christ from the virgin Mary (v14). The Logos can’t be God for it is standing towards God like a servant ready to do his will. The Greek is not WITH God but TOWARD God (that is, facing towards God) and has very significant meaning.

    The logos was toward the God, showing the logos was not God and yet the logos contains qualities and attributes of God for it say the Logos was God (without the article), showing it is not identical to God but contains qualities and attributes of God. The meaning of logos is based on the analogy of man’s thinking and speaking process, but this is figurative, because God knows and doesn’t think. God is in relationship to the logos what a noun is in relationship to a verb. The logos is God’s will, decision, and the release of His energy coming forth for creation of the earth and the universe. John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus who was not yet born. Jesus is mention in verse 14.

    John 1:3 -4:
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.
    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Since we are still talking about the logos (not Christ), the proper translation is all things were made through it and without it was not anything made that was made. In it was life…(in the logos was life).

    John 1:18- There is a variant reading here; either only begotten son or only begotten God. Internal evidence proves the Greek is only begotten son, not only begotten God.

    John 1:15 = for he was before me. The Greek is for he was first of me, not before. The meaning must involve Jesus being first in relation to John the Baptist in the sense of preeminence. Emphasized Bible by Joseph Rotherham says: Because my chief was he.”

    John the Baptist said he was not even worthy to loosen the sandals of Jesus feet as a servant would do when you entered a house.

    John 17:5 – Jesus is speaking from the stand point of the first Adam who had the glory of God, and Jesus was interceding on the behalf of all those who were followers of him; all those who are IN the second Adam. Jesus was the second and last Adam and restored what the first Adam had lost through sin; that is, the glory Adam had with God before he sinned. Jesus restored that Glory with God and went on to completion or perfection. He received the fullness of God. Now all those Born-Again and filled with the Spirit and that are pressing in to obtain all that God has for them, even the perfection of their souls and spirits, will too also have the glory of God like the second Adam attained unto. Jesus is now interceding for them for soon he would be crucified and not be able to pray for them anymore, so he had to pray before his suffering on the cross!

    Acts 7:59 – God is not in the Greek. Greek = calling upon the Lord Jesus.

    Acts 16:7 –There is a variant reading which must be interpreted in light of the clear verses on the subject. “Of Jesus” is most likely an interpolation. Much more can be said.

    Rom 9:5- Grammatically, “God blessed forever” isn’t linked to “Christ,” so the meaning must be “God who is over all be blessed forever.” Paul is praising God here.

    Heb 1:2 Greek spoke to us IN his son

    Rev 1:8 – Greek = saith the “Lord God.” This is referring to God, not Jesus.

    I need to stress a very important rule of how one goes about interpreting the Bible. One needs to first take clear easily understood scriptures and passages to form their doctrine and then move on to the more difficult ones that I have listed above with a brief explanation.

    The word of God tells us that there are no contradictions in God’s Word (II Tim. 3:16), and we are told that God is not the author of confusion (I Cor. 14:33).

    One may not figure this out on his own, but instead will need to consult oneness scholars and check the word of God like the Bereans to see if these things are so. This is why God called teachers to be placed over the church so we can become perfected (Eph 4:11-13) because one cannot get these truths on their own. God gave us teachers to teach us and we need to learn from them.

    • Jerry S.

      Thank you Dale.
      J.

      • Dale

        You’re so welcome. I only wish I could do a better job for Yahweh and Jesus Christ our Lord. I haven’t heard any rebuttals, and I pray the open hearted reads them and sees the revelation!

        I know God will give his church more understnding in the future of the relationship between God and Jesus Christ and just how Jesus is ruling from the Heavenlies by God’s Spirit as the glorified Christ. He is ruling over us spiritualy now and will rule literally in the Millenium, but then will give up the kingdom back to the Father that God maybe all in all. We will always see God manifested through Jesus through-out eternity. He will still be the focal point and head/ chief, but we will also experience God in one another. I want to experience what Jesus’ relationship is like and I’m not there yet. He knew God like no one else but has made a way that we can do the same. Not that we will ever be fully like Christ, yet as a church and individuals we will come into a degree of perfection in Christ as we live and walk in the Spirit and seek God with all our hearts like Christ did or he did it perfectly and without sin.

        BM

        • Dale

          ONLY he did it perfectly wihtout sin

  • Chad

    Question: “Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?”

    Answer: Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).

    John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

    Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

    In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

    The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.